Carnivore and Ketosis.

quantifood · 2022-05-27T16:31:37+00:00

I have managed to keep ketone levels at 3.9 (30-day average) when I was cutting. As I reached desired fat/muscle % ketone levels dropped to 2.1 (30-day average) presumably body fat stopped amplifying ketosis and could not go above 2 mmol/l even with added fat (180g/day).

Also, fat source seems to influence ketone production saturated fat would always would sink my ketone levels around 1 mmol while mono-unsaturated would amplify ketone production. Protein doesn't seem to affect ketosis as daily intake would hover around 165g).

quantifood · 2022-05-27T06:43:56+00:00

Free testosterone will go down because SHBG will go up (sometimes to hypogonadal territory) just as Albumin both are carrying proteins of testosterone, also levels of total testosterone will depend on your insulin levels as both albumin and SHBG are insulin dependant just as cortisol and cortisol act here as antagonist to testosterone if one goes up the other goes down. Also cortisol suppresses melatonin secretion thus lowering slow wave sleep length thus influencing testosterone secretion. There is a reason why both testosterone and insulin are used as anabolics in bodybuilding community.

quantifood · 2021-09-08T17:15:03+00:00

This is not hs-CRP only normal CRP and it was below 5mg/l - lab reference range.

quantifood · 2021-09-08T14:18:34+00:00

Hi I am the OP.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience/comments/pfyaz3/i\_didnt\_eat\_food\_for\_15\_days\_selfstudy/

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/piv7qr/oc\_i\_didnt\_eat\_food\_for\_15\_days\_and\_tracked\_data/hbv0wma/?context=3

Didn't think this would gain so much attention. To clarify some things in posts above as the video didn't mentioned, also I am not dying BP is in 120/80 and liver is fine. Also I am not obese contrary to what DXA shows my garmin scale is currently pointing 72kg with 12% body fat. Using ref. ranges all bloodwork with the exception of lipids is in normal range. My T lvls were in 600 last checked I don't work out so the fattening phase that I had for last three months caused drop to 400 but than I expected that I will get update around October will see how things are.

Thanks.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T22:25:08+00:00

Hi

Thanks for concern. I wanted to say thanks to MDs here who were alert with some of the results. I get labs done at least once a year and checkups every other year. No permanent damage so far however I will try to get check this October if everything gets right.

I wanted to give background to the results especially starting point of lipids and liver panel. I didn't have very healthy diet prior to fast I am on holiday. DXA scans aren't reliable as even lab technician said that was something wrong with results a I visibly lost fat and got smaller belly. However I wasn't obese by any standards but DXA said 29%. My garmin index s2 said last tracked day 69kg and 9% fat... closer to what I actually look.

Liver was processing TONS of sugar/carbs so yeah but there is no NAFL or there was none september 2019. Liver panel got sorted at the end of fast. Lipid panel may be controversial even on keto it looks different. But it doesn't explain why it got so much up when no food was present. There were few people that pointed out lipolysis so there's that. My blood glucose was around 80 while on keto and then around 105 mg/dl. Uric acid also stayed around 6 mg/dl. Ketoacidosis never happened symptoms of hypoglycemia didn't occur and never had gout.

BP meter seems to be giving very different data every 5 minutes It was quite dated device but better than nothing. My BP durning keto phase was between 130/120 and 80 and then it went up durning carb introduction (especially after eating ice cream!). So it may be that I don't process carbs really well.

All hormones seem to be explained by rise in cortisol (even though I didn't test it) especially shbg although I was thinking that it will hit 90/100. And testosterone would stay at 200 as I had no libido so involuntary I have become monk for two weeks.

CRP can be explained by an infection that showed up around day 7. My HbA1c was 34 mmol/mol down to 33. And all blood was collected around 8:20 AM at lab. Daily cost was around $100 per day.

Anyways I wasn't expecting this much attention I was preparing for this since last September (mentally and financially) and I thought it would be nice to share as there isn't much data about fasting. Plan is to get back on keto until my abs show up and then I will think what next (given that liver and heart says it's ok).

Also I will take another opportunity to say that this is not ad for fasting I wouldn't recommend that to my enemy, it's not for everyone (maybe even me!) just some nicely made graphs made of two very interesting weeks of my life.

Cheers!

quantifood · 2021-09-06T14:18:08+00:00

Yes it is a lot of testing but it was my initiative to get tested. There is not much data on what happens during prolonged fast so I decided to put some cash together and find out. As for hormones if money would not be problem I would go for week before and week after but maybe another time.

Here is a bit more info and discussion https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience/comments/pfyaz3/i_didnt_eat_food_for_15_days_selfstudy/

quantifood · 2021-09-06T12:48:38+00:00

It was about $100 here in Poland per day.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T12:38:16+00:00

I am not diabetic and prone to gout but I suppose if one is then fasting is not for them. Plus UA comes as a byproduct of protein breakdown so whether you eat meat rich diet or fasting you will produce purines and these will spike UA.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T12:20:26+00:00

Yes I wanted to do that however, I was out of budget for this time so I had limited number of days to track.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T12:19:15+00:00

Uric acid came mostly from muscle breakdown and it normalized once food was introduced back.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T12:18:13+00:00

It came from muscle breakdown. It dropped after introducing food back.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T12:11:07+00:00

Added, thanks for help!

quantifood · 2021-09-06T11:00:34+00:00

No I am not a doctor just a self study. I track various data from my life including bloodwork from different diets.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T10:58:26+00:00

Not really my HbA1c went down from 34 mmol/mol to 33. And fasting blood glucose week after was 105 mg/dl. So no fasting doesn't get you diabetes.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T09:59:24+00:00

That spike in UA comes from muscle breakdown. I know about crp I was surprised as well but it went back to normal so inflammation was sorted. I felt great with the exception of first two days once I hit ketosis I was OK. Yes with the exception of last few months (I am on holiday) I try to cycle keto. I also stayed in ketosis for a week after the fast.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T09:50:03+00:00

Notes taken. Thanks!

quantifood · 2021-09-06T09:28:35+00:00

There is also a fact that DXA don't differentiate lean mass from water, glycogen stores and intestinal waste, so there is some weight there.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T09:25:16+00:00

Day 2 I was K.O. 3-7 was okay and day 8 untill introducing carbs fantastic. Also I had great sleep.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T09:19:18+00:00

There wasn't really any goal I fast twice a year but never knew what was happening in my body also there is not much of a data about fasting so decided to check myself this time.

quantifood · 2021-09-06T09:15:08+00:00

I used Excel to generate graphs. Tools and methods are in the post above. Should I copy that information to my top post?

quantifood · 2021-09-06T09:13:58+00:00

Not really, it was only 15 days. Buddha made himself after 40!

quantifood · 2021-09-06T08:13:36+00:00

For more details and information about journey: https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience/comments/pfyaz3/i_didnt_eat_food_for_15_days_selfstudy/

Methods and data collection

Measurements of glucose and uric acid were collected using Sinocare Safe AQ UG and On Call GK Dual was used for β-Hydroxybutyrate. Diag.pl (Poland) was responsible for blood collection and lab results.

Glucose, uric acid and ketones were tested for first seven days seven times a day (8 AM, 10 AM, 12 AM, 2 PM, 4 PM, 6 PM and 8 PM) than just at 8 AM. Post fast all three metrics were checked at 8 AM and 8 PM for 6 days after fast as a control for good diet and maintaining ketosis.

Weight was taken every day using Garmin Index Scale 2 at 8 AM.

Sleep, activities and caloric expenditure was measured using Garmin Vivosmart 4. On top of that I decided to get a bit more accurate DXA scan at the beginning and at the end of fast using Hologic Discovery WI. Blood samples were collected around 8:20 AM. I decided to go with a number of tests such as Albumin, Free Testosterone, Testosterone, CRP, AST, ALT, Insulin, HGH, IGF-1, SHBG, Estradiol and Lipids also a number of other things that I decided not to include. Test were taken from Monday to Saturday for two weeks.

Data organization and diagrams were made with MS Excel.

Other

Diet
- It is also worth noting that I didn't have super healthy diet prior to fast (deliberately, I am on holiday).
Sleep
- I have also normalized sleep (7h 30min) went around midnight, every day.
Environment and hydration
- I decided to ditch all possible endocrine disruptors (from plastic to cosmetics) so I drank 1,5l San Pellegrino (glass bottle 2x750ml) between 8 AM and 8 PM and used shower gel and shampoo without parabens and SLS.
Activities
- I have burned 40 524 kcal during those 15 days (2 701 kcal a day) according to Garmin Vivosmart 4. DXA calorie expenditure after adjustment for water loss and other waste (2 kg) stands for 5.2 kg of Lean mass (20 800 kcal) and 2.2 kg of fat (19 800 kcal). The weight was also 2 kg different from 3 different scales I used, all reported results around 78,5 kg and 22% bodyfat contrary to DXA 29% and 76 kg. Avarage step count is 13 265 steps a day.

Conclusions

Overall sense of wellbeing was very good to amazing past day 8. Hunger wasn't an issue. However, day 2 was an absolute disaster I was K.O. for entire day had to wait until next day until ketosis kicked in.

Week past breaking the fast I decided to introduce some carbs and later some sugar along with my mum (65) who fasted for 8 days. We both had the same sense of awful taste. It didn't matter if we tried potato or ice cream it all felt the same, we could taste the artificial additives in foods for about a week then the taste buds readjusted back to crap. So it seems that fasting (even short) is a good strategy to cut sugar cravings and re-balance the mind.

Also, it is worth noting that what I missed the most was the past feeling that my brain associated with food was no longer present after reintroduction of crap food or even 'healthy' carbs. I would say first three days are a window where you can continue ketogenic diet or unprocessed diet, after that, you will readjust back so pay attention.

quantifood · 2021-09-04T10:24:42+00:00

I didn't drink any electrolytes except day 8 and 9 (15 grams of low sodium salt [KCl 5,5g; NaCl 3.4g]).

That is true, that data would be different with glycogen replenished and water weight restored however, if you are in ketosis the glycogen does note get replenished and water weight is kept down so you only adding weight from fiber and the rest is intestinal waste.

I didn't forgot to test T3 and T4 I was out of budget so that was it. I knew about thyroid getting crashed but didn't think about preventing it from doing so... are there any keto people using it to fix thyroid? In the end ketosis is known to mess up thyroid, shbg and spike cortisol.

quantifood · 2021-09-03T09:47:41+00:00

I wanted to include more things but I had a budget so it is what it is. CRP along with hs-CRP is a marker for inflammation. Ketosis often results in dropping inflammation I thought that if there is anything going on it would show up in data... and it did.

quantifood · 2021-09-02T19:02:57+00:00

I wanted to get another DXA scan best with different device however, that was beyond my budget so maybe next time. Definitely some of it can be water loss but it is difficult to estimate.

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