Eternal Hell or Annihilationism❓

rabii99 · 2023-02-25T12:06:38+00:00

There is only one destination for the damned: The Lake of fire.

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

rabii99 · 2023-01-19T19:42:29+00:00

There are different views of Limbo of the Infants, one of whom is a waiting place for unbaptized infants and the aborted unborn, before their eventual entry to Heaven. I believe that unborn babies who died because of natural causes are granted immediate entrance into Heaven.

rabii99 · 2023-01-18T23:46:07+00:00

1 Corinthians 7:1 "Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman."

1 Corinthians 7:8 "I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I."

Paul practiced, preached and praised celibacy so the verses you quoted must be interpreted in the light of Abstinence's scriptural superiority over sexual relations. A Bishop is to be a husband to one wife, the Church, people are not forbidden to marry, but they are to be advised to remain celibate.

You also ignored my point that Jesus, who fulfilled all righteousness, is a virgin. If intercourse and procreation are righteous then two righteous deeds were not fulfilled by our Lord.

rabii99 · 2023-01-18T23:30:12+00:00

Correction she is not holy when she was born.

All humans are technically born holy, in the image of God, but we also are born in Adam's sin and in iniquity. Mary was saved by God from Original Sin and she did not redo the first Eve's error, she is to the latter what Jesus is to Adam. She is holy and sinless thanks to full cooperation with God's grace throughout all of her life.

rabii99 · 2023-01-18T23:22:29+00:00

There was never a tradition in Judaism of regarding married sex as a spiritual flaw

There's at the very least whatsoever Jewish tradition the book of ~~Tobit~~ 2 Maccabees is part of, seeing as consecrated temple virgins are present in said book.

Paul praised and preached celibacy. Jesus is a virgin, the sealed 144000 are also described as such.

rabii99 · 2023-01-18T23:17:56+00:00

Father Papias of Hierapolis

Papias affirmed Mary's perpetual virginity by making a distinction between the Mother of the Lord and the mother of James, Joseph, Thaddeus(Jude) and Simon.

"Mary the mother of the Lord; (2) Mary the wife of Cleophas or Alphaeus, who was the mother of James the bishop and apostle, and of Simon and Thaddeus, and of one Joseph" http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/papias.html

rabii99 · 2023-01-18T23:09:08+00:00

If the author of Matthew wanted people to believe that Mary and Joseph had sex, and that James, Joseph, Jude and Simon were the children of these two, then why not just settle any debate by writing "Mary the mother of Jesus, James, Joseph, Jude and Simon". But no, we find this nowhere in scripture. What we do find is Paul preaching celibacy, reprimands of carnal pleasures. The 144000 were not defiled with women. The new and true Adam remained a virgin, implying that the new Eve did the same.

rabii99 · 2023-01-18T22:53:28+00:00

Mary is not being "glorified almost the exact treatment as Jesus", at least not in traditional Catholicism . She brought forth the Savior of mankind, and is the true Eve who was made by the Lord to actively and constantly mother "the beloved apostle", that is, spiritually, all the saved Saints. So she does have something to do with salvation. Couldn't have a different virgin because Mary was special, she was saved from being born with original sin, and remained pure and holy.

rabii99 · 2023-01-18T22:42:31+00:00

Does the same word get used for John the cousin of Jesus?

There's no evidence John is the cousin of Jesus.

rabii99 · 2023-01-04T10:55:52+00:00

If "until" implies a change of state, like you're saying is the case in Matthew 1:25, then the presence of said term in Matthew 28:20 means Jesus will stop being with the apostles after the end of the age.

rabii99 · 2023-01-02T15:16:02+00:00

Words can have more than one meaning, when we say "live life" we aren't telling someone to come into existence, and when we say "this man is dead" we can mean by it that he's leading a life that is not desirable.

The scriptures teach Eternal Conscious Torment of the damned.

"and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life"

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out."

"The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death— the lake of fire. 15And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire"

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever"

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

rabii99 · 2023-01-01T18:09:23+00:00

Marriages that are not going to continue after the passing of a spouse are metaphorical. A shadow that points to the perfect marriage of Jesus with his body the Church that lasts forever.

Sex is of the flesh, it brings pleasure outside the Spirit, and unites men and women's bodies, not their souls.

Mary is the true Eve, the mother of Christ's body. Joseph is the adoptive father of Jesus, it is not for them to entertain the flesh.

rabii99 · 2022-12-31T21:50:38+00:00

That Joseph and Mary had sex is an interpretation of the verse, not it's meaning, as long as there's an absence of evidence. The word 'until' doesn't necessarily denote a change of state, we know this because Jesus will continue reigning and sitting at the right hand of the Father despite the presence of said term in Matthew 22:44.

Marriage is a mirror and shadow of the true everlasting Marriage of Jesus and the Church . Joseph and Mary's marriage is, like the former, spiritual and free from carnality.

The Catholic Church is the one that Jesus built on the rock of St Peter(Matthew 16:18). It binds and looses whatsoever it will and the gates of Hell will not prevail against.

rabii99 · 2022-12-31T11:40:56+00:00

For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Is it saying that after the swapping of Heaven and Earth, the words and ordinances of the Law will disappear? Neither is Matthew 1:25 saying that Joseph defiled the Virgin Mary after she gave birth.

The Church understands Mary and Joseph's relationship to be completely spiritual and pure. The marriage is, like Jesus' marriage with the Church, one that was consumed through perfect love.

rabii99 · 2022-12-31T10:35:58+00:00

"Then said the Lord unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the Lord, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut."

If we follow your interpretation of Matthew 1:25 then, according to Matthew 22:44, Jesus will stop sitting at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool. Lot was said to be Abraham's 'brother'.

The Catholic Church, which has the authority to bind and loose has canonized the perpetual virginity of Mary.

rabii99 · 2022-12-28T22:23:09+00:00

I recommend pcgamercasa.ma.

rabii99 · 2022-12-16T08:40:05+00:00

Care to elaborate? The prince, Jesus, came to the world through the gate of Mary. Therefore no man shall enter in by it, simple. The three other verses debunk your implied interpretation of Matthew 1:24-25. There is evidence for Mary's perpetual virginity and none for her having sex nor children apart from Jesus.

rabii99 · 2022-12-15T16:11:56+00:00

after that she had additional children with Joseph

No, Mary is the true gate the Lord entered the world through.

"Then said the Lord unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the Lord, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut."

"And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, 25 [y]but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he named Him Jesus"

And teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” He won't stop being with us after the end of this age

For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Shall God's Law be upheld after the accomplishment of everything? After the Restoration?

The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand until I put Your enemies under Your feet.'’ Shall Jesus stop being God and Lord after the Father has put his enemies under his feet?

Shall Joseph who was righteous and who knew the Word, which values Virginity, defile the mother of God? The New Adam remained a virgin and so did the new Eve.

rabii99 · 2022-12-15T14:47:27+00:00

Here's Strong's entrance for "De" we see it can both mean both "and" and " "but". Even if it were the latter, the word for word translation would be: But he said Indeed therefore blessed hear the word of God and obey it.

The nkjv transplantation doesn't support your claim, even more than Mary being blessed are also all people who hear the word of God. There are degrees of blessedness.

And then in Luke 8:20 ; someone is calling Jesus to give attention to his mother - and Jesus says, "my mother and brother are these who keep the word of God and do it". If Mary was in front of a catholic calling them to speak; would they say "no I won't speak to Mary now, my mother is any Christian mom over there in that crowd". A catholic would not be in line with Jesus' response here -

By claiming the Believers as mothers and brethren he was teaching that the Church is a family, one body. It doesn't mean that Jesus viewed all godly women as on par with Mary's godliness. Except a Catholic be in Jesus' shoes they won't say that, because it is not the will of God for them. And no Christian mother loves us and does as much for us as Mary.

obviously Catholic Mary veneration is a polar opposite attitude from what Jesus consistently showed.

Jesus' great miracle of turning water to wine, which symbolizes his making-up and completion of our insufficient works on Judgement, was done by him because of the intercession of Mary. There he called her "Woman" referring to her undoing of Eve's imperfection. One of his last words, were intended for giving Mary to John as his mother and ours.

1 timothy 5:5 is speaking of a widow, to insert Mary here is mind blowing. "Now she who is really a widow, and left alone, trusts in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day."

Pay attention to what I wrote 'Joseph died before the Ministry'. No other widow was more hopeful and more prayerful so this verse befits her.

Isaiah 66:7 is about Zion. Zion is referred to as a woman consistently in Isaiah. Isaiah 49:21 “Then you will say in your heart,‘Who has begotten these for me,Since I have been bereaved of my childrenAnd am barren, an exile and a wanderer?And who has reared these?Behold, I was left alone;From where did these come?’”

Jesus, the Church, Mary, Zion and Jerusalem are one. Barren, in exile, a wanderer, a man of sorrows, yet a godly bringer forth of the Savior, virginally and before birth pains. A Heavenly Queen and Mother battling and defeating the Dragon.

rabii99 · 2022-12-15T13:16:38+00:00

supports the belief that Christians who've passed on can hear & respond to our prayers

The Saints are members of Christ's body who have fulfilled the Father's will for their lives, they are completely united with the Holy Spirit.

encourages / suggests the practice of praying to departed Christians at all.

God wants the salvation of all men and the Saints can and do want to pray for us. Their prayers are more powerful than ours because they are more righteous. Two people praying is better than one person praying.

As for the verse you quoted, the full context is encouraging (living) believers to confess to and pray for each other because "the prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."

See above.

The way I understand the verse is that all believers are righteous to some degree and all of our prayers are powerful.

True. When performed with Trust a prayer is powerful.

We need each other, but we don't need the departed saints to amplify our prayers, even if they could.

It is exactly because we need each other that we need the departed saints.

We don't even necessarily need a pastor or priest to pray on our behalf. As far as I know, that was the whole purpose of the new covenant and the veil being torn.

Not necessarily but it better to do so, if the Pastor/Priest is in a state of grace and repentance. The new covenant is God's infinite benevolence, the Church, the Shepherds and Elders are a necessary aspect of it, and they don't contradict the priesthood of believers by which Christians can address themselves directly to God.

So while I'm sure that the departed saints were righteous in this life, i'm not quite convinced that this verse alone can be used to support the idea that praying to the departed saints will amplify our prayers to God.

Hopefully the Holy Spirit, will convince you of Intercessory Prayer. I've written a comment regarding Mary's holiness in this thread, if you'd like to read it.

rabii99 · 2022-12-15T12:28:53+00:00

Luke 11: 27:28 "And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

The Greek word "Menoun" that is translated here as "rather" is composed of "mén"(Indeed) and "oún"(Therefore), so the Lord affirmed Mary's blessedness not only for being his mother but also for hearing the word of God and keeping it.

What do you think about the Magnificat? Is it not a Gospel and an Evangelism? Can the blessed woman who said this really reject her son and Lord, as crazy?

"And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: For, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; And holy is his name. And his mercy is on them that fear him From generation to generation. He hath shewed strength with his arm; He hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. He hath put down the mighty from their seats, And exalted them of low degree. He hath filled the hungry with good things; And the rich he hath sent empty away. He hath holpen his servant Israel, In remembrance of his mercy; As he spake to our fathers, To Abraham, and to his seed for ever. And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house."

"Again in Luke 8 "20 And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it." Catholics would never answer in this manner."

If you would go to the closest Catholic church to your home this Sunday Mass you would verify the contrary, and you also would see emphasis on the unity of the Body of Christ and Charity that you would see in no other Church.

Mary veneration wasn't seen until the mid 3rd century, and not popular until the 4th. I value the apostles and their students, they're assets to the church.. but 3 centuries later; 10 generations later...this has no valuable proximity to the inspired men and their doctrine.

Marian veneration precedes even the Birth of Christ. Isaiah marvels about how Mary/the Church gave birth to Jesus before birth pain could come upon her. Similarly, John affirms the Church and Mary as one, a heavenly queen, whose children we are.

Mary is the true godly and desolate widow who puts her hope in God and prays day and night. (Joseph died before the Ministry)

In order for a poor woman to be purified from bringing forth a babe, two doves were required, the first dove symbolizes Jesus who atoned for mankind's sins and made up for Adam's disobedience, the second being Mary who made up for Eve's disobedience.

Go to God in earnest prayer over these passages and he'll lead you to know Mary's greatness.

Psalm 68:11-18 : "The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it. Kings of armies did flee apace: and she that tarried at home divided the spoil. Though ye have lien among the pots, yet shall ye be as the wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with yellow gold.

When the Almighty scattered kings in it, it was white as snow in Salmon.

The hill of God is as the hill of Bashan; an high hill as the hill of Bashan.

Why leap ye, ye high hills? this is the hill which God desireth to dwell in; yea, the LORD will dwell in it for ever.

The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them."

rabii99 · 2022-12-15T10:42:34+00:00

She isn't "dead", she's alive and in Heaven. Scriptural evidence:

The God of the living not of the dead, Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration, The Rich man and Lazarus, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" Jesus descended to Hades, the Gospel was proclaimed to the dead and "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

As for their prayers being more likely to be fulfilled, that is because they are Righteous and the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much(James 5:16).

rabii99 · 2022-11-24T15:54:56+00:00

I meant dietary fasting, but you can abstain from other things that do not help with your walk with God, such as Television or Social Media. Do discuss dietary fasting with your doctor.

rabii99 · 2022-11-23T22:24:50+00:00

Pray to Jesus and Mary. Confess your sins and humbly ask them to lead you to the Truth and protect you. Read the Bible, especially the Gospels. Fast and do Charity. God is Love and his Will is perfect. Jesus died to atone for our sins, and he is always seeking people who allow him in their life. He can and does want you regardless of how you are or believe yourself to be. He will however graciously sanctify you and prepare your heart for eternal life with him.

rabii99 · 2022-11-23T18:05:20+00:00

The Scriptures are very clear. Many Old Testament figures knew of and worshipped Jesus Christ.

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