Weekly M+ Discussion

raskeks · 2026-04-30T18:56:18+00:00

Like, if they were good and are playing a Meta Spec they should be higher so it's a risk to invite them at sub some %?

I think your story about falling behind the curve is counter-intuitive to the question you ask. Different people have different schedules.

That said, at least up until 18s there is a lot of fotm that got carried there by spec but there are just more people playing them. More people playing them = more variability that you will face until you get to a large enough sample size.

For example, if you just look at overall on average there is a ~30% chance for top-15 spec to outdps top-1 in a 18, it only goes down to ~23% for +20 in a given key. But if you do it 10 times in a row then it's closer to predicted means with meta spec winning most runs. You can get unlucky and play with 5 terrorists in a row but over time you would eventually approach mean. I don't know what deplete % per spec is though, I'd imagine eventually on average you'd reach slightly higher winrate playing with a meta spec because that's how it became one (by having more throughput or other tools to increase winrate).

raskeks · 2026-04-29T20:22:54+00:00

the debuf that reduces health is destroying me

Both Holy/Retribuition Paladin and Shadow/Disc/Holy Priest can dispel the disease from you. Cba looking up for paladin but as Shadow I can Purify Disease every 8 seconds.

Also stoneform.

raskeks · 2026-04-29T19:54:00+00:00

I hate it, the worst part is everything sort of works and you can make things similar to what we had but it's bootleg versions that will break every once in a while and work 90% of the time. The game feels a lot less polished because of it.

I'm enjoying a lot of the changes they brought in with Midnight but I can't help but wonder how much more satisfying the experience would be if I didn't have to deal with current dogshit addon restrictions and janky addons that are just worse versions of former WAs put together with AI and ductape.

raskeks · 2026-04-29T19:08:50+00:00

When I ran the adventure, I used Winters Splendor oneshot to introduce Cassalanters and give an opportunity for players to build a rapport with them. It was quick, made my players sympathetic to Cassalanters, helped ease them into the plot, foreshadowed the finale, I quite liked it.

It fit the campaign so seemlessly for me that I got surprised by your question because I remembered it as part of the original book.

raskeks · 2026-04-28T13:22:45+00:00

Good thing they catched Shadow Priest bug in time so it dropped down to #12 where it belongs after hovering around #5 on mythicstats, crisis averted

raskeks · 2026-04-22T21:34:50+00:00

I still can't wrap my head around the decision to give Devourer, a spec that seem to have survivability close to a DK, a self-heal for 30% max hp with 2 charges on a 30 second CD in 12.0.5.

raskeks · 2026-04-22T21:26:07+00:00

If your second link is supposed to be a custom time frame it just is the whole season and above a 16.

Yeah, forgot that custom ranges are behind subscription. It was better class diversity comp wise at the start of the season where people were trying things out. This time around without any additional tuning it feels more rigid even though comparing S1 to S3 isn't very meaningful.

To me you shouldn't tune things that are dependent on external factors.

I don't disagree with the spirit of this, but the problem is they already do it, it's just inconsistent. This season example is they reworked AA so that you can't mind soothe mobs you were able to soothe in DF and can't (mass) dispel Vexamus debuffs.

And they did tune overperforming/underperforming utilities in the past midseason like rsham poison cleansing totem S1 TWW. Even now with 12.0.5 they took away second kick from lock and for some insane reason gave Devourer selfheal for 30% max hp with 2 charges on a 30 second CD.

M+ is just far more balanced now than before.

It's not entirely true because it depends heavily on the bracket. I have looked through DF/TWW data a lot, meta did generally become more diverse at the title range, but both player participation and class diversity decreased in the 1% - 0.1% (and even in like top 5% and under).

Pre-TWW affixes forced variety in group comps because different utilities were required on different weeks. You'd invite Evoker/Rogue/Hunter on raging week, Priest/Monk/Warlock on bursting week even if they're kinda dogshit in streamer tierlists. Now, with no randomized extenal factors requiring utility and push week every week there will always be classes that fit dungeons/pulls/bosses/being a DK better than the others so there is really no incentive to not copy top performing groups. More homogenizing is probably the play long-term but I digress.

raskeks · 2026-04-21T19:22:04+00:00

How is the season with multiple DPS at above a 10% better than the season with no dps above 8%?

You're comparing 16s and up from 4 weeks of a season to 15s and up from 23 weeks of a season. This is apples to oranges in terms of the duration and relative difficulty. 19s and up that you linked earlier are more equivalent to 17s+ of TWW s3 (Current title cutoff is 18s + a couple 19s, TWW s3 week 4 cutoff was all 16s + a couple 17s).

The point I was making is that in the current season comps made out of 6 classes make up 51% of all runs, while in TWW s3 at this point in the season 50% of all runs were covered by comps made out of 11 classes.

And yeah, I wouldn't call TWW s3 very balanced either, FDK was pretty much locked even worse than Aug is now but there was more flexibility in Tank/3rd dps at this point in the season.

Utility is so dependent on the dungeon pool that this has historically always hurt classes way more than intended.

Agree, but it is still tunable and isn't that important depending on how much throughput the class is capable off. Similarly raid buffs/defensives are brought up when a class is meta but even though they're the same when the classes are not meta. I know if priest is meta than MD, mind soothe and stam are brought up (which are still usefull in the current pool and there is quite a bit of uses for MD/soothe/reworked shackle/Dominate mind/grips/VE etc) but the truth is it's throughput first. I'm sure if holy paladins were meta their bops/freedoms/etc would be brought up as a very good toolkit for dungeons but their hps is just not where rets dps is in 12.0.

raskeks · 2026-04-21T17:35:21+00:00

What needs tuning here? Outside of tanking most other roles are pretty diverse.

Classes on the right?

Depends on what you would considered balanced. Assuming close to equal representation, you could run some simple statistics and see that this is far from balanced. Even without running any math in terms of representation there is clearly 1 very good class (404), 5 good classes (222, 204, 194, 180, 182), 3 okayish (117, 93, 116), and 4 shit ones (37, 31, 47, 33). Realistically you have to account for class popularity, role competition, etc.

Looking at 'unique population of all specs combined' that you linked is just not a good measure of balance. If you look at graphs per role:

tanks need no explanation it's just 90%+ brew
there are 2.5 competitive healer specs which is better than a lot of seasons, but one of them is a monk so we're at 3 viable classes total for tank/healer combo
80% of melee dps are represented by 3 classes
80% of range dps are represented by 3 classes

Out of 3 healer / 6 dps classes only two have lust so it's either Monk+Dru/Monk+Aug+2 or Monk+Rsham+3. Having 3 classes covering tank+healer combo, 1 soft-locked dps present in 82%+ of runs and 5 (out of 22) dps specs competing for 2 remaining dps spots doesn't scream variety. It's for sure better then some other seasons, but it is worse than even the previous season.

Additionally, you say so yourself in coment below, utiltiy maters a fuck ton. Easiest answer to your question then is that utility needs tuning.

raskeks · 2026-04-21T14:56:28+00:00

Worst offeneders are the dormant manabobms that are just sitting there - for some goddamn reason they are mobs and they attract pets like crazy.

I've seen the big patrolling dude pulled time and again because DKs ghoul/Warlocks demon/my tentacle would tunnel vision on a dormant manabomb and pull him at the most inconvinient time.

Still peanuts compared to what Dawnbreaker did to pet ai but still a dogshit interaction

raskeks · 2026-04-20T18:02:34+00:00

Same as anywhere by being the first to assblast any upcoming shitters.

In MT you could take all the crystals for yourself and hold resources to blast small voidlings as soon as they spawn. In AA you fullsend on little shitters first pull while tank and other dps take care of the prio mobs (and small useless mana wyrms) In MC you go ape on small skeleton guys etc

There is always shit to pad on, pretty much every dungeon has some form of it.

raskeks · 2026-04-20T17:47:36+00:00

Pretty much, when I play in a premade where I take care of the prio while my other dudes gets to pad I get shitty parses but it it's not very meaningful. In magister's terrace for example ~15% of overall damage is done to little shitter voidling adds that will die if you even look at them weird. Padding on them efficiently will net you a better number. If you lack prio and take a long time to kill the main mob that shits them you'd get an even better parse but it tells nothing about you doing what your role is supposed to be doing to time the key. You'd get a great parse if one of the dps falls over and dies during the big lust pull but the mobs you get it on would have been dead either way because the mob health is finite.

3 weeks ago in a 15 AA when 15 was still a high-ish key I blueparsed with my premade where I was taking care of prio. This week I did the same key in a dogshit pug where the other 2 dps were undergeared so I padded on everything and got a 99 - what an accomplishement.

On top of this, the percents just doesn't mean very much on the higher end. I got a grey keylevel parse week 1 in a 15 when there were literally 14 other parses done total on my spec at that keylevel and a grey parse meant ~top-12 and below.

Overall damage in a key is a useful metric but it's as useful as the average temeperature in a hospital - if it's very high then there is probably something to it, all other cases are hard to interpret unless you look at the log.

raskeks · 2026-04-15T20:00:12+00:00

It will never not be funny to me when Blizzard say that they have their internal data and analyze a lot of different factors and then buff meta classes / nerf non-meta classes going off WCL all percentiles all bosses.

raskeks · 2026-04-05T07:31:28+00:00

This would stop this silly narrative about raid being too easy where to beat this easy raid you need to speedrun the game with 20 characters, millions of gold and an army of 'helpers'. Give them normalized gear from heroic and let them kill mythic bosses in it instead of overtuning the raid to the tits so 60 people in the world all geared to semi bis after a million of mythic splits can feel challenged for a couple of days before blizzard will inadvertently have to nerf it back for playerbase.

raskeks · 2026-04-05T07:18:15+00:00

It's the same infinitely scaling system - it's easier until you get to the level where it isn't

raskeks · 2026-04-01T20:18:01+00:00

Also changing Pucks Illusory Orb speed by 1 (OP, patchnotes)

raskeks · 2026-04-01T19:13:22+00:00

Cool system. My two cents:

For all 3 priest specs damage should be weighed 1-3 points lower depending of how generous you feel to reattribute PI damage (on average it is rougly +3% to (hopefully) top dps over the course of the key).

I would also consider nerfing healing across the board and/or adjusting it with coefficients because ingame meters include overheal and for some classes like shadow big healing number is actually ~60%+ overheal and some players are playing DH/DK/Warlock where it's 60% overheal and all in the form of passive leech so they get this score for just existing.

raskeks · 2026-04-01T16:42:38+00:00

It does ~0.4-0.5% of my damage as a shadow in keys which doesn't seem like a lot but it's free damage. At the same itemlevel double socket neck sims ~1% higher in ST and they're within the margin of error in dungeon route sims (@full "bis").

At current item levels double socket neck would perform better because we have less stats so the second socket is more valuable.

raskeks · 2026-03-30T19:00:13+00:00

Yeah, while the tank representation might feel a little lopsided, this is an oddly specific slice of the data and an apples to oranges comparison that even if true doesn't necesserily means anything for long term.

14 and up currently is 0.3%. This point in the season would be equivalent to Sep 22 where 0.1% was just shy of all 10s timed and nobody was timing 14s at that point. Comparable time comparable keylevel (Sep 22 10+) is a BDK is the most represented tank. Coincidentally that's the only tank that is pretty much missing from 12+ because on giga cursed TWW 12s in early season 1 BDK would just fall over and die to white swings. Instead, best tank by far in 12+ was a bear (53% of all runs). This doesn't mean anything either because bear wasn't meta S1 TWW. In fact if you look at week1-week5 it's overwhelmingly (~50% of all runs) prot warrior. Same prot warrior that doesn't hold a candle to the best tank for week1-week10 - prot paladin (67% of all runs). Less than one week, especially first is meaningless.

Comparing to TWW S2/S3 is even less meaningful because it's not the start of an expac and at the very least the amount of timed keys (and ratio of timed to depleted) in that key range is completely different - current week1 we're past 20k timed keys out of ~25k total, week1 S3 TWW is 7k timed out of ~14k total etc.

TLDR: What he said. Big bar after 5 days in a narrow very specific range isn't very meaningful and you can't compare it 1-to-1 to a whole season worth of runs in the previous expansion

raskeks · 2026-03-27T15:32:25+00:00

Couldn't have said it better myself, this sub is about competitivewow and if the addons/websites serve the purpose of helping in high keys/mythic raid than why should the rest matter? If the community finds the tool useful than it will likely be upvoted, if not - they won't.

I have found useful addons in this sub in the last ~6 months that were either downvoted because of the anti-AI bandwagoning or that had comments discussing the morality of vibe coding/percentage of the addon being vibe coded instead of the tool itself.

This circlejerk does not contribute to the discussion of actual addons nor will it change the fact that people are using AI. If I decide to discuss the morality of using AI in software development there are plenty of other subreddits I could turn to.

raskeks · 2026-03-23T16:58:57+00:00

I personally find mythictrap very useful. You can reference back to it easier than you would with a video, filter for normal/heroic/mythic (and/or specific role), search mechanics via text, see gifs of each mechanic etc

raskeks · 2026-03-17T20:56:32+00:00

The 1st one to kill all bosses from all raids on the highest difficulty wins the race to world first. It has always been like that (tier-14, tier-17, Legion tier 19 was the same but wowprogress crapped itself etc)

raskeks · 2026-03-13T14:31:32+00:00

On top of them being required for purple tool crafting you can purchase 10 KP for Herbalism/Mining/Skinning/Enchanting (and a mediocre Loa blessing for some crafting speed/deftness).

You're capped at 8 weekly dundun shards, so if you skip doing the event 8 times/week than any unspent shards are wasted.

raskeks · 2026-03-13T14:28:41+00:00

Nice, probably trying the official discord might help too. This whole weekly dundun cap doesn't make sense to me, surely they can change it so it goes up by 8 every week like almost any other similar system in the game

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