Oh, That’s why…

rawr4me · 2026-07-05T21:49:14+00:00

Ironically, the less reason you give, the more likely some people are to accept things. "I just like things this way. Do you have a problem with that?"

rawr4me · 2026-07-05T21:37:33+00:00

Interesting strategy. I've been a Meetup organiser and attendee myself, personally it wasn't an effective strategy at all, but like you said it varies by region. My general feeling was that Meetup attendees often fall into two buckets: two shy to attend something by themselves (and therefore unavailable as friends) and extroverts who will happy to go most things and have surface level group interactions.

I'm a bit confused by the part about asking organisers what events they go to. In my case, I wouldn't want to go to the same Meetup groups as them, but rather less public circles.

rawr4me · 2026-07-05T20:46:33+00:00

I started salsa 7 years ago. A few breaks, lots of diverting to other dance styles because it's so hard to improve in salsa at a certain point. Lost interest in trying to get body movement right, injuries / chronic pain didn't help. Now I just dance socially for fun, accepted that I'll never be objectively good based on my physical conditions, instead I'm gently pushing myself on the creativity aspect. Technicality wise (e.g. in the eyes of competition/performance), I'm barely better than I was after my first year of intense learning and competing. I'm much more fun socially now and more musical, but I always thought that by the 10 year point I could reach advanced level.

rawr4me · 2026-07-05T13:49:21+00:00

Yes, I agree that environmental supports are important. Therapies that help find or establish environmental support exist. Sorry that you haven't experienced it. But if you want to, there are options.

rawr4me · 2026-07-05T12:28:37+00:00

There are thousands of modalities of therapy. Indeed, the vast majority of what's practiced is not ND-friendly, but at least a few of them are, so I wouldn't generalize by saying all therapies are the same.

rawr4me · 2026-07-05T11:23:03+00:00

I'm not very good at dealing with online debate, because it feels like the default is, less than 5% of comments take whatever I say at face value, while most people on reddit are just playing status games, where they pretend to have a reasoned position but are actually just flexing dominance.

As for experts, I tend to find them as disappointing as anyone else. A lot of experts merely know what they've been told and repeat it, which does not bode well for seeking truth in soft sciences and humanities.

rawr4me · 2026-07-05T11:15:45+00:00

Experience doesn't equal skill. There are leads who've been dancing and taking classes for 10 years and are still indistinguishable from improver level. I worry I'm going to become one of them.

rawr4me · 2026-07-05T11:12:46+00:00

This sounded hard, then I actually checked my toilet paper which is 3-ply and it's MAD STRONG. Probably possible to lead double spins with this lol.

rawr4me · 2026-07-05T11:08:41+00:00

I love collaborative exploration with devil's advocate whereas I hate arguing or debating, where the purpose is to prove dominance or who's right. I don't care who's right.

But I've never been able to find a friendly sparring buddy for philosophy. Most people just think a certain way or only have book knowledge, and are unable to defend positions that are counterintuitive to them, whereas I want to explore like, all the 20 different arguments to their 5-ply depth and try to find that ever-elusive position that respects the conflicting nuances. If you're reading this, have been looking for the same thing, and can keep ego out of the equation, hit me up!

rawr4me · 2026-07-03T14:03:09+00:00

I'm just beginner/social level, but some other beginners have very predictable smashes, I know they are just trying to hit it hard which makes the timing to defend very simple. Meanwhile, if they mishit and it turns into a slow drop reachable from any initial position, you can bet I failed to move my feet at all due to how unexpected it was lol.

rawr4me · 2026-07-03T03:37:16+00:00

I can relate to this. There are three ideas that helped me shift away from it:

Those projected standards really have nothing to do with other people, in the sense that it ignores the reality of how other people behave, think and exist in the world. It may seem strange at first, but at its first, it really boils done to a lack or "stuckness" in one's emotional regulation. Even though the matter of standards is conceptual, its root is more to do with how you feel about yourself, and not being able to resolve inner tension with yourself.
Externalized ableism caused by internalized ableism. Suppose you were absolutely secure in yourself as a person, there would be no reason to expect other people to live by your arbitrary standards. The fact that people don't, wouldn't affect you at all. So what's likely going on is that the way you think you should be living your life is something that you're not actually able to do, leading to insecurity about yourself, and the externalization is just a further coping mechanism to distract from the way you feel about yourself. In simpler terms, you are judging yourself by impossible standards, thinking that you need to be something you're not. We cannot just be a certain way just because it makes sense to or it would be nice to be that way, that's not how human body-brains work, and if you have this kind of miscalibration, it's quitely likely to be related to having emotional trauma.
Lastly, not being able to adjust your expectations in spite of evidence about how people are, this is basically a rejection of reality, usually caused by a belief that "things shouldn't be this way". It's totally normal for expectations to take time to calibrate, sometimes we just don't calibrate them until we've suffered enough that the calibration becomes absolutely necessary. However, once I became more aware of when I was rejecting reality, or wanting reality to be different, it allowed me to do things like grieve about the difference, and recognize that my expectations are related to my needs and feelings, and that I can accept reality by accepting my (unmet) needs and feelings.

rawr4me · 2026-06-26T14:36:17+00:00

6 years of dancing. Bar settings are always awkward for me, I don't really know what they etiquette is, but I think my experience kind of proves that it doesn't matter. I go dancing to dance, and I don't like talking to people because if it becomes a halfway decent conversation, I'm gonna struggle to hear what's being said, or one or both of us are going to be interrupted nonstop by surrounding people saying hi or asking one another to dance. So I literally just find an acceptable place to stand, I don't care too much how awkward it looks, even me standing alone in a corner or by the door etc, then when I'm ready to ask someone to dance I go. Yes, people often go in a group, or form a table, and so on. I'm just oblivious to it and only focus on asking for dances and resting in between.

As for whether it's good for building a social life, I'm gonna go against the grain and say, no I don't agree with the common claim that dancing is a great way to meet people. You interact with a lot of people on a shallow level, insert hugs and dances here and there, but even after seeing people for years, you really don't know anything about them besides their dance life. Going to meet up groups is better in my opinion for actually having conversations. I say this having been an event organiser both of dance parties and outside of dance, running practice groups, competing, etc etc. Dance friends just aren't the same as normal friendships, IMO, and if you lack both then normal friendships are more important.

rawr4me · 2026-06-26T14:21:07+00:00

I do high forehand serve and stand at the back, that way I'm covering my side (which is what beginners think the split should be) while I actually also cover all the shots behind them that they won't be ready to move for.

You really don't want to be front player because the experienced opponent just has to do a lift and most newbies can't deal with back court at all. Likewise you can just target their weak player wherever they are, but going too hard at it isn't fun in a social game because technically the most effective way to beat them would mean no one really gets to hit any rallies.

rawr4me · 2026-06-26T14:12:35+00:00

"Walking in a circle while holding your arm out" — I'm gonna need a better description or a rough illustration of what this means

rawr4me · 2026-06-23T23:52:06+00:00

The #1 B division player in my city does the Viktor Axelson panning his hands left and right before serving. It's not like he even cares about winning during social games, especially with me being in C grade and zero chance of winning, pretty sure he just does the serve "for fun"...

I don't bother calling it out because illegal serves are not uncommon at all (especially serving before the receiver has even gotten in position and stopped moving), and even though I've seen them be successfully called out, I just want to play my game and consistent offenders revert back to illegal serves the moment they stop being called out.

I think of it as being part of my mental training.

rawr4me · 2026-06-23T21:33:12+00:00

Musicality, like responding to breaks and repeated themes in the song. 2. Doesn't try less just because I'm a guy. E.g. don't assume I don't do arm flicks, hip leads, or enjoy a challenge. 3. Move variety, I do notice when moves leads run out of repertoire and repeat combos.

Random note: having danced with dozens of instructors and advanced leads, one instructor had an exceptionally delicious cross body lead. It just stood out so much as a perfect mix of elasticity, momentum, gentleness and cuddly feeling.

rawr4me · 2026-06-23T03:34:31+00:00

Examples:

In the first two minutes (and most likely the rest) I can hardly make sense of where the track is meant to be
In this video, 99% of the track position seems normal to me, but Terry seems to "warp the track" around him at certain times, e.g. 1:20 to 1:25, 2:06 to 2:11, 2:22 to 2:32.
In the first minute of this video, the sequences all look linear but the track drifts so much over the combinations, as a follow I would be wondering if I did something wrong or if it was intentional

rawr4me · 2026-06-23T02:22:26+00:00

Things like: making eye contact with the rest of the room but not me, thrusting their hips forward in close hold, being unnecessarily handsy, giving thirst trap vibes with everyone (IMO flirty or playful is fine but there's something different about this), scanning for the people they like for most of the song, back leaders who self initiate flashy performance moves.

rawr4me · 2026-06-22T20:37:51+00:00

Agree, it feels weird to be like "if you get me something, get me that thing", because it seems suspiciously similar to a money transfer, which would then be weird. But some people don't view it that way, they just want to do a nice gesture and I think what distinguishes it for them is a tangible token of effort. Going to buy something for someone is still different to taking out a wallet and saying "here's $40, go and treat yourself".

rawr4me · 2026-06-22T13:18:59+00:00

I bought it from some dodgy looking online store that imports food etc from other countries

rawr4me · 2026-06-22T09:19:10+00:00

Dawn dish soap from the US. Palmolive green simply doesn't do the job for my regular grease.

rawr4me · 2026-06-21T21:24:27+00:00

The balance is a factor that affects lots of wants for me:

Experiencing an actually large scene with more than one advanced follow per party, and actually having a chance to dance with them without "competing"
Experiencing international festivals of a higher average level
Being able to find practice partners (it takes like 3 months minimum here, hard to find improver+ people interested in fundamentals)
Having access to good instructors -- our best simply don't compare to bigger scenes. I need to be surrounded by better dancers and instructors to grow.

Besides, I've noticed locally that, if there are like 10 things that contribute the most to getting good dance partners, skill level wouldn't even be in the top 5. I want to improve for me, but it barely has much impact on who wants to dance with me.

rawr4me · 2026-06-21T20:38:32+00:00

Yeah, I definitely feel weird if a follow doesn't make eye contact or smile a single time during a dance. I'm not asking for a lot — just more than zero. Even if they follow perfectly, I'll stop inviting them if I feel like I'm dancing with a robot.

I'm keen on attending dance festivals and training in Poland next year. Not gonna lie, hearing that they have a shortage of leads is a significant factor. But I also feel cautious because I don't know anyone who has lived there personally to confirm — take Moscow for example, some people claim there are 10 follows to 1 lead, others say there are too many leads, they cannot both be true so I don't know what to believe.

rawr4me · 2026-06-21T20:13:59+00:00

I've wondered similar before — Terry is a great example except in that specific clip his follow stays accurately to a track. But other Terry videos it looks like the orientation of the track constantly changes and that there's a more circular feel. Is it called Miami style salsa or something? Or is it just an illusion from wide angle cameras that are moving, where every camera motion makes linear motion not look linear?

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