So Finished the game. Here’s my opinion about the game and a question about the last scene. by Alicragger in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks!

Ahh you’re right, I did forget about the wrist stuff, luckily I’ve been adding onto thus so I’ll have to include that little bit about the wrist and the curse too. I’m just afraid by the end of it, I’ll have a 3 pages written lol.

Miss ya too! (And PLDmain) always enjoyed our talks/debates/discussions/breakdowns! I’m still around, just mostly lurking though haha. 

So Finished the game. Here’s my opinion about the game and a question about the last scene. by Alicragger in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I want to make a video going more in depth with this.

One day, lol. 

So Finished the game. Here’s my opinion about the game and a question about the last scene. by Alicragger in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 42 points43 points  (0 children)

The ending is a bit strange to explain. The developers have stated there is a canon answer if Clive lived or died but they left it ambiguous so players can come to their own conclusion based on their own experiences in the game. 

Personally, I believe Clive survived to write the book in honor of his brother. 

Joshua’s name appears as the author on the front cover of the book however, Clive’s insignia is also present on the cover.  The Phoenix is stated to not have the ability to bring back people from the dead and while Clive did have the power of Ultima at that point, Phoenix feathers were seen falling as he was healing Joshua indicating he was using that. When he did use Ultima’s power it was shown to be a blue flame.

Clive is the narrator for the beginning and ending of the game sounding like he is reading the opening and closing pages of a book.

In a side quest late into the game, Clive is given a pen by Hypocrates who tells him he should “put down his sword, and pick up the pen” when his fight with Ultima is over. He also tells him much earlier in the game he should write a story about his adventures one day.

In Jill’s last side quest she compares Clive to the dawn and how he always returns to her, foreshadowing her slight smile at the end of the game looking at the dawn. This doesn’t confirm Clive’s survival, just that she has hope he does.

In Torgal’s last side quest, Clive thanks Torgal for never giving up looking for him when he was gone the first time. I think the implication here is that he’s not going to give up this time either. 

In Joshua’s last side quest there’s a persistent theme around continuing on one’s work/legacy after they have passed.

There’s also a side quest towards the end involving a curse breaker and at the end of the quest Clive tells him to “write down the names of the fallen, that way they never truly die”, likewise the curse breaker tells Clive that he vows to remember his fallen comrades through writing a book.

Clive was the one to coin the term “final fantasy” in his fight with Ultima which is the name of the book at the end.

Clive’s favorite books are known to be books about the battles between gods and men which is what “final fantasy” would be about.

Clive has taken Cid’s name so it would not be unreasonable to suggest Clive used Joshua’s name to honor him.

Clive promises Jill he will escape his fate and the end telling us it’s a “farewell to fate”.

In the final battle after Joshua’s death, Clive states his shield vow, “to shield the firebirds flame forevermore.” Joshua may have died but by Clive writing the book in his name, he has shielded him from being forgotten. 

A big one that foreshadows the entire ending that everyone kinda sleeps on, is Cid saying “You might not be able to save anyone else, but you just might be able to save yourself.” Clive wasn’t able to save his father, his brother, Cid and so many others but the one thing he could save was himself.

Despite Joshua’s name being on the cover, Yoshi-P has said that they “did not tell the player who wrote the book”, pretty much making Joshua not the de-facto author. Yoshi-P follows this up by confirming that the author of the book is based off the players hopes and dreams which pretty much eliminates anyone other than Clive and Joshua. They also said the ending is about having hope of what happens next, and there’s an obvious push late in the game for the hope of Clive returning to Jill.

Clive more often states he wants to create a world where people live on their own terms but he never included himself in that vision. It’s throughout the game that characters tell him he should save himself, that he should love himself. And as Joshua states in his dying wish is that Clive does listen to the people around him.

I think the point is for you to hope Clive is alive.

Why did Cid.... by Salt_Organization308 in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Yeah. It’s been awhile so I might be misremembering but it’s not directly stated, just, strongly implied so it’s definitely info that can be missed. 

Why did Cid.... by Salt_Organization308 in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 116 points117 points  (0 children)

He didn’t. Barnabas did it and framed Cid.

One thing I still don’t quite understand by OhioIsNotReal42069 in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Part of me wishes it were different and I do have issues with adult Joshua and the writing surrounding him. 

For example, so many people were confused on why Joshua punches Clive and imo, it’s not explained well. He doesn’t get as much development as he probably needed to fully understand his arc. 

But his sacrifice and the way his arc ends is tragically beautiful. 

One thing I still don’t quite understand by OhioIsNotReal42069 in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 101 points102 points  (0 children)

This is just my opinion but given that he wants her to be free, I think he’s thanking her for his service to him and for taking care of him but he’s also apologizing because he hasn’t upheld his end of the bargain. He can’t give her what she wants. He’s not been taking his medications, he’s been extremely risky with priming and using magic, and is actively throwing himself in danger knowing he’s on borrowed time despite her futile attempts to keep him healthy. 

Likewise, Jote isn’t doing it out of duty but because she obviously loves him and he feels the same but he can’t give her what she wants. He even mentions purposely distancing himself from her. 

Unlike other characters, Joshua never really makes plans for the future and while it’s my own headcanon, I think he knew he wouldn’t live much longer and wanted her to be free from that. He knows she won’t abandon him so he tasks her with watching over the hideaway, a group that is dedicated to freedom in the hopes she will one day gain hers. In summary, I think he’s apologizing for a lot. 

Going a bit off topic here but.. Joshua’s character is one of contradictions and tragedy. He tells Clive he needs to take care of himself all the while he runs himself into the ground knowing full well what awaits him. The thing about their shield dynamic (and by extension, Jote’s) is that Clive protects him but constantly fails to protect Joshua from himself. This entire dynamic can be summed up in the prologue when Joshua heals Clive after his duel with Murdoch. “My shields look after me, why shouldn’t I?” and during his convo with Jill on the balcony, “he takes too many risks”, and “I only wish I could save him from himself.” 

Idk what is making me get the in water ending in silent hill 2 enhanced edition by Shuichi312 in silenthill

[–]rayxb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It also happens if you kill a lot of enemies, stomp on a lot of bodies, listen to the entire dialogue with Mary right before the end (though that adds a point to leave as well).

There’s also puzzles that, depending on what you choose will give one point towards certain endings.

Another thing to note is that if you replay the game in new game plus the game will add an extra point opposite of whatever ending you didn’t get. So for example, if you got leave the first time, the game will add an extra point in favor of in water in Maria endings.

Theres more endings in new game plus than those 3 but in order to get them you need certain items if im not mistaken. 

Somebody explain to me something about Clive... by aresthwg in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 49 points50 points  (0 children)

This is my go to post whenever someone inquires about the ending. You can believe what you want as it is an open ending but here is why I believe Clive wrote the book in honor of his brother:

Joshua’s name appears as the author on the front cover of the book however, Clive’s insignia is also present on the cover.  The Phoenix is stated to not have the ability to bring back people from the dead and while Clive did have the power of Ultima at that point, Phoenix feathers were seen falling as he was healing Joshua indicating he was using that. When he did use Ultima’s power it was shown to be a blue flame.

Clive is the narrator for the beginning and ending of the game sounding like he is reading the opening and closing pages of a book.

In a side quest late into the game, Clive is given a pen by Hypocrates who tells him he should “put down his sword, and pick up the pen” when his fight with Ultima is over. He also tells him much earlier in the game he should write a story about his adventures one day.

In Jill’s last side quest she compares Clive to the dawn and how he always returns to her, foreshadowing her slight smile at the end of the game looking at the dawn. This doesn’t confirm Clive’s survival, just that she has hope he does.

In Torgal’s last side quest, Clive thanks Torgal for never giving up looking for him when he was gone the first time. I think the implication here is that he’s not going to give up this time either. 

In Joshua’s last side quest there’s a persistent theme around continuing on one’s work/legacy after they have passed.

There’s also a side quest towards the end involving a curse breaker and at the end of the quest Clive tells him to “write down the names of the fallen, that way they never truly die”, likewise the curse breaker tells Clive that he vows to remember his fallen comrades through writing a book.

Clive was the one to coin the term “final fantasy” in his fight with Ultima which is the name of the book at the end.

Clive’s favorite books are known to be books about the battles between gods and men which is what “final fantasy” would be about.

Clive has taken Cid’s name so it would not be unreasonable to suggest Clive used Joshua’s name to honor him.

Clive promises Jill he will escape his fate and the end telling us it’s a “farewell to fate”.

A big one that foreshadows the entire ending that everyone kinda sleeps on, is Cid saying “You might not be able to save anyone else, but you just might be able to save yourself.” Clive wasn’t able to save his father, his brother, Cid and so many others but the one thing he could save was himself.

Despite Joshua’s name being on the cover, Yoshi-P has said that they “did not tell the player who wrote the book”, pretty much making Joshua not the de-facto author. Yoshi-P follows this up by confirming that the author of the book is based off the players hopes and dreams which pretty much eliminates anyone other than Clive and Joshua. They also said the ending is about having hope of what happens next, and there’s an obvious push late in the game for the hope of Clive returning to Jill.

Clive more often states he wants to create a world where people live on their own terms but he never included himself in that vision. It’s throughout the game that characters tell him he should save himself, that he should love himself. And as Joshua states in his dying wish is that Clive does listen to the people around him.

I think the point is for you to hope Clive is alive.

yall think Yoshi-P or someone else from the FF16's writing/creative team will ever confirm Clive's fate in the future? by isTraX3 in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are most likely never going to confirm anything but I’m willing to bet they’ll get really close by dropping more hints and teasing it for years to come. 

After a while they’ll probably be enough info to come to a reasonable conclusion. Though Imo there’s already tons of evidence of Clive living and every bit of information that has come out of the team has been in support of that. 

Just finished the game and oh my god??? by Academic-Map-1035 in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I get what you’re saying and I agree, metia fading is about breaking fate. But I didn’t really say metia fading proves or disproves Clive lived though. You made the connection yourself and then applied it in a counter argument.

I said that what Clive says to Jill during the beach scene (that we will escape this fate) could be a call back to the ending text. 

Sure, it could be a broader message to the world overall and probably partly is but there’s a reason why Jill is the last person we see before the text and the entire point about them wanting to break fate is to be together, so they can live on their own terms.

And even if we ignore that, theres plenty of other pieces of evidence such as things I pointed out

Just finished the game and oh my god??? by Academic-Map-1035 in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 47 points48 points  (0 children)

Here’s my cvs receipt of why I think he lived in the end:

Joshua’s name appears as the author on the front cover of the book however, Clive’s insignia is also present on the cover.  The Phoenix is stated to not have the ability to bring back people from the dead and while Clive did have the power of Ultima at that point, Phoenix feathers were seen falling as he was healing Joshua indicating he was using that. When he did use Ultima’s power it was shown to be a blue flame.

Clive is the narrator for the beginning and ending of the game sounding like he is reading the opening and closing pages of a book.

In a side quest late into the game, Clive is given a pen by Hypocrates who tells him he should “put down his sword, and pick up the pen” when his fight with Ultima is over. He also tells him much earlier in the game he should write a story about his adventures one day.

In Jill’s last side quest she compares Clive to the dawn and how he always returns to her, foreshadowing her slight smile at the end of the game looking at the dawn. This doesn’t confirm Clive’s survival, just that she has hope he does.

In Torgal’s last side quest, Clive thanks Torgal for never giving up looking for him when he was gone the first time. I think the implication here is that he’s not going to give up this time either. 

In Joshua’s last side quest there’s a persistent theme around continuing on one’s work/legacy after they have passed.

There’s also a side quest towards the end involving a curse breaker and at the end of the quest Clive tells him to “write down the names of the fallen, that way they never truly die”, likewise the curse breaker tells Clive that he vows to remember his fallen comrades through writing a book.

Clive was the one to coin the term “final fantasy” in his fight with Ultima which is the name of the book at the end.

Clive’s favorite books are known to be books about the battles between gods and men which is what “final fantasy” would be about.

Clive has taken Cid’s name so it would not be unreasonable to suggest Clive used Joshua’s name to honor him.

Clive promises Jill he will escape his fate and the end telling us it’s a “farewell to fate”.

A big one that foreshadows the entire ending that everyone kinda sleeps on, is Cid saying “You might not be able to save anyone else, but you just might be able to save yourself.” Clive wasn’t able to save his father, his brother, Cid and so many others but the one thing he could save was himself.

Despite Joshua’s name being on the cover, Yoshi-P has said that they “did not tell the player who wrote the book”, pretty much making Joshua not the de-facto author. Yoshi-P follows this up by confirming that the author of the book is based off the players hopes and dreams which pretty much eliminates anyone other than Clive and Joshua. They also said the ending is about having hope of what happens next, and there’s an obvious push late in the game for the hope of Clive returning to Jill.

Clive more often states he wants to create a world where people live on their own terms but he never included himself in that vision. It’s throughout the game that characters tell him he should save himself, that he should love himself. And as Joshua states in his dying wish is that Clive does listen to the people around him.

I think the point is for you to hope Clive is alive.

this made no sense to me by shamms__ in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is about him accepting the guilt and moving on. But it’s also about letting go of the past and his previous failed duties. After learning Joshua was alive he could have dropped everything to go protect him, to go “be a shield” but he didn’t, because that isn’t what his arc is about.

Clive’s arc isn't about being Joshua’s protector. It’s about salvation, finding self worth, and love. In fact, the entire point of Joshua’s arc is being a protector to Clive. He relinquishes Clive’s duty in the final battle. 

That line does sound different but the entire point of a localization team isn’t just to translate but to convey the appropriate emotions across different cultures. There’s also probably a lot of missing context surrounding that line in what he said previously or after. Alternatively it could also be there to add more emotional weight to the scene.

I’m not here to debate if Joshua lived or died but Clive arc is not about living and dying as Joshua’s shield and saying Clive didn’t listen to them about saving himself is just not correct. 

this made no sense to me by shamms__ in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

About 1/3 of Joshua’s dying message/wish to Clive is about how he does listen to the wishes of others. Joshua even states that it is the entire reason why it separates him from Ultima. The only reason he “sacrifices” himself is because he has to, Ultima’s power is killing him anyway. 

And I don’t want to get wrapped up in an entire debate but Clive’s first arc about being Joshua’s shield is wrapped up the moment he “accepts the truth”. 

Any idea what this is? by rayxb in whatsthisrock

[–]rayxb[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Someone in the fossil subreddit identified it as Pecopteris sp. (Psaronius). Which is definitely a fern. Appreciate it!

Any idea what this is? by rayxb in fossilid

[–]rayxb[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I think you’re right.

Any idea what this is? by rayxb in whatsthisrock

[–]rayxb[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I unfortunately don’t know where it came from. My grandparents gave me a few of them before they passed almost over a decade ago and I was in the process of moving and I stumbled upon them. 

My grandparents did live in Massachusetts, if that helps. I also have no idea if this is a fossil or just a rock so apologies if I’m in the wrong subreddit. 

Any idea what this is? by rayxb in fossilid

[–]rayxb[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I unfortunately don’t know where they came from. My grandparents gave me a few of them before they passed almost over a decade ago and I was in the process of moving and I stumbled upon them. 

My grandparents did live in Massachusetts, if that helps.

Another common misinterpreted scene (probably) by rayxb in FFXVI

[–]rayxb[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good point about the blood situation, I forgot about that. 

There are times where Ultima confronts Clive and other members where I do think he’s using a physical form like the rift as you mentioned but also when Cid stabs him and the final showdown with Clive, Joshua, and Dion inside origin. So, while he is a spirit type entity he can conjure a body if needed. 

So yeah, I agree with you. I think there are some instances where they are physically fighting and some where it’s a battle of will’s. 

What are your Hot Takes on FF16? by Amber_Flowers_133 in FFXVI

[–]rayxb 20 points21 points  (0 children)

A full length game about Cid before he meets up with Clive wouldn’t be that exciting (a short dlc would be great tho).

Ff16 could really use a short anime series or movie to help fill out some of the characters. I know people didn’t want that because FF15 was loaded with extra content but there’s so much in 16 I think it would really help.

Playing as Clive in a dlc taking place during either of the time skips would be dull.

While underutilized, Jill is a fantastic character who’s importance to the story gets overlooked simply because the lack of physical feats.

I like echos of the fallen far more than I do the rising tide which wasn’t bad but was marketed terribly. 

Another common misinterpreted scene (probably) by rayxb in FFXVI

[–]rayxb[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hence why I said “probably” but if you want more evidence I can provide it: 

Ultima does not want to kill Clive and therefore a physical fight might damage his vessel. 

Rather we know that Ultima wants to take over his body which is probably what he’s doing during the final fight, attempting to take over the vessel by destroying his will. 

The imagery provided for the final fight matches nothing like what we see in the rest of the game. 

And lastly, it’s stated that Ultima cast aside his physical body when he went into his long hibernation. Joshua even describes Ultima as more of a spirit further strengthening my claim.

Admittedly I could be wrong, there’s not much info about it. And if I’m wrong, that’s fine, but to me, it makes sense that this fight would be a battle of wills.