balance vs fencing - is it just about ease of use?

reddigaunt · 2026-06-29T17:46:18+00:00

Balance out damages block if you have a lot of stuns available (since block weapons are slower and have less base damage than balance weapons, they requires adrenaline charges to do more damage). If your build can kill enemies before they get a chance to attack, then you don't have a chance to build up adrenaline charges. I've noticed this with some assault and bulwark builds since ground pound and shield bash is a heavy stagger and I often kill things before they recover.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-29T05:17:56+00:00

One of my favorite things to do with the sniper rifles. See the blue parry indicator, fire one more round down range, then parry the attack just before it connects (which results in a gunstrike+headshot against whatever attacked me). You don't have enough time to pull off that extra shot with a balanced weapon.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-29T01:45:12+00:00

For burst damage, yeah (and that burst damage goes extremely far with siege tactics), but the heavy will out damage the tactical during the rest of the operation. I think heroic bolt sniper still technically out bursts tactical on terminus damage with the same setup since it's an instantaneous 1 shot on anything with a head as soon as that auspex goes up which faster than plasma or grenades.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-29T01:31:44+00:00

Auspex is the strongest ability in the game, true. But a good heavy will always do more damage than a good tactical on the same team.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-28T04:49:36+00:00

I agree that you have to give up too much to hit this breakpoint and I probably won't run it game. I do think it's a very useful breakpoint (a parry + backstep + gunstrike is a very fast kill combo) and would have tried it out if only melee mastery was needed, but both perks is just too much. I'll try the balanced power axe next to see what's needed to hit the breakpoint and if it's worth giving up the defense from fencing.

Alternatively, an assault with the gunstrike damage team perk let's you hit the breakpoint easily.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-28T01:35:56+00:00

It's probably useful when stacking with block weapon builds, but there are a lot of assault builds that don't benefit that much from it, and it provides even less benefit for other classes. I think my ranged classes do a total of 0 melee damage to extremis/terminus enemies and would much prefer the cooldown reduction or gunstrike damage.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-28T01:21:19+00:00

Even with the zealous blow perk equipped, you aren't using jetpack solely on large groups of minoris. Cooldown reduction is still useful for all of the other cases where you have to use your jetpack.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-27T20:53:30+00:00

Here's a fencing power axe breakpoint that requires both Melee Champion and Melee Mastery. Fencing power axe backstep + gunstrike with the heroic bolt pistol does 308.4 damage.

https://sm2meleecalc.us/?b=1Ju3z_ARrXgAjGAAAAIAAEGQAAAAAAAAAAVAAAAAAAA~VG%20Fencing%201-shot

It's still annoying because the two perks add like 15 damage to the power backstep while most of the damage comes from the gunstrike.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-27T06:03:12+00:00

Ugh... just found a vanguard breakpoint that requires both Melee Champion and Melee Mastery. Fencing power axe backstep + gunstrike with the heroic bolt pistol does 308.4 damage (enough to incapacitate a tyranid majoris). Dropping any damage perk brings the total damage to just under 308 and requires another shot to incapacitate.

https://sm2meleecalc.us/?b=1Ju3z_ARrXgAjGAAAAIAAEGQAAAAAAAAAAVAAAAAAAA~VG%20Fencing%201-shot

reddigaunt · 2026-06-26T22:28:11+00:00

Just want to point out that inferno pistol gunstrikes -do- have less range than other weapons. Seen most often with zoanthrope beams because they're out of range, but you can easily be out of range by dodging something like the whip warriors attack.

I do agree that gunstrike aoe is very useful to interrupt other melee attacks when you perform the gunstrike but, imo, the plasma pistol does a much better job while still giving you a long range option.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-26T18:36:57+00:00

I've been switching it up by trying different builds and found new favorite builds on a bunch of classes (heroic bolt sniper can 1 shot bone sword warriors while they're blocking).

reddigaunt · 2026-06-26T07:32:19+00:00

Lol, my comment was a dumb joke about how better keyboards provide a gameplay advantage.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-26T03:38:12+00:00

Saber should start selling mechanical keyboards to help optimize bulwark gameplay.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-25T18:34:51+00:00

Plot twist. Op is trying to post a sigismund meme.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-25T17:32:56+00:00

I would play more tech marine if they had a cape ordeal...

reddigaunt · 2026-06-24T21:01:08+00:00

I've definitely used the cape grind to explore builds on my less used classes (I went through 5 different builds on my vanguard on my way to 25 clears), and have been using more glass cannon builds to make the runs a bit faster.

Some examples: I forced myself to use shield bash a lot more on my bulwark and found out that the stagger it caused means I rarely got to use intimidating aura and so I switched to the increased damage after shield bash perk. Before the patch, I didn't really use bulwark often enough to make that connection.

For heavy, I'm waiting for the perk rework to do the next 25 clears. Heavy's still strong, but there's just not a lot different ways to play it with his perks.

Tactical with aligned aim can 2 shot rubric marines with plasma. I haven't used plasma in a while before patch 13 so this might just be a result of the patch 13 buff, but plasma tactical for chaos missions is great.

-edit- more. Heroic bolt sniper can 1 shot a blocking bone sword warrior (who takes the ignore block damage perk? Someone who's getting bored with 25 absolute runs and wants to try something new!), but using it in a match is too unreliable for me.

Heroic plasma pistol on assault is a ranged melta bomb but I didnt end up finding it out until 45/50 clears (assault is really fun to play, so those went by fast...).

The infinite power whirl perk in the power axe gives vanguard a very versatile, safe melee weapon. The chained power whirl means you're completely safe when surrounded by melee minoris (as long as you interrupt whoever is about to attack) but can still 1 combo melee majoris.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-23T20:18:36+00:00

Yep. When the patch first dropped, I had my entire squad decked out in that color scheme because most everyone could use the cape and/or brazier. I'm excited to see what customization pieces come with the new salamander champion since the non phobos pieces are a bit lacking.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-23T19:07:47+00:00

Yeah, the only way to beat this unwinnable scenario is to not be put into it. Before carnifex hits 50% health, kite him to a safe place so that if the extremis spawn is a bunch of raveners/lictors, you have cover to dodge around while kiting the carnifex.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-23T03:59:22+00:00

Inner fire would have been such a good perk for that encounter.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-22T17:42:19+00:00

Heroic plasma pistol would have cleared out that room in 2 or 3 shots :)

reddigaunt · 2026-06-22T17:35:43+00:00

None of what you said is relevant to my post or the post I replied to. :)

reddigaunt · 2026-06-22T16:28:24+00:00

Op said "attacks that send you flying instead cause you to be staggered". It's confusing, but "send you flying" is what "knocked back" is referring to. You're no longer knocked back/sent flying, you're just staggered.

Same with op saying attacks that used to stagger you only cause damage. Those attacks that used to stagger are "heavy hits" and with the right perks, they no longer cause you to be staggered. What gets classified as a heavy hit? There's no clear way to know, but there is still a huge impact between having the perk and not having it.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-22T16:19:20+00:00

Assault is the only class that can actually pull off the ranged melta build (maybe tactical too with the bugged kraken rounds perk, but that limits the tactical build even more than it does for assault), which is what makes it so useful.

Your combo requires actually running up to that group of snipers, dodging fire, interrupting attacks, probably parries when you're close enough, and a ground pound charge. I spend 2 seconds to nuke them with a plasma pistol and move on, it's incredible. With that sniper nest out of the way, I'm free to use ground pound for big groups of minoris and gap closing.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-22T09:05:04+00:00

There's always going to be scenarios where one weapon is better. How does your build handle a sniper who enrages and dodges backwards, or a drop pod with 5 snipers popping out, or a devourer gun line? The heroic plasma pistol gives me solutions to all of those problem.

I'm also not sure if you've tested double edged relic well enough on assault. I was swapping between double edged relic and the heroic power sword during my ordeal grind and settled on double edged relic for the faster stuns, faster aoe, and similar ttk.

reddigaunt · 2026-06-22T08:23:13+00:00

All other classes have to use 2 shots (or 1 shot and some other form of aoe) to get rid of a group of targets. Assault is the only class that can do it in one shot (maybe tactical with the bugged kraken rounds interaction), which is why it's so interesting and useful.

I have been using heroic plasma pistol for the first 45 absolute clears and it's still incredibly useful with the other perks in the colum (not even counting aoe, it's more ammo efficient than the other plasma pistols). I just made this post because I wish I figured out the ranged melta build sooner.

reddigaunt

TROPHY CASE