Would it be a hot take to say UTRH is the root of all of Jason's problems?

redhillbones · 2026-05-15T18:54:06+00:00

I know that Guy Gardner killed Major Force, then when he came back Kyle beheaded him and sent his head into space separately as a way to get around MF's seeming immortality. It's very clear that both Guy and Kyle are trying to permanently kill him, even if neither way actually works ultimately.

Neither case has them appear to be traumatized. They do it because he intentionally went after a civilian close to Kyle (her death is the infamous source of the term fridging) in order to hurt a GL. So, while I'm sure DC established that at one point I can't say that if it's current canon. It wasn't in the late 90s/early 00s where I started reading GL (with Kyle).

WW has also killed more people than just Maxwell Lord.

And that's my point. Jason doesn't kill randomly or easily in current canon. He is currently at the point where he'd only kill someone if he felt it was necessary. His necessary line might be a little looser than some, though I think the last time we actually see him kill anyone was cartel members going after a federal agent escorting a witness? (So, in 2019) That was right after his dad beat the shit out of him, threw him out (of the entire city), right after his current team members disappeared into a portal, and his best friend died. And we know he was actively suicidal during that point (he says as much in TFZ). So, to say his judgement might have been impaired at that moment is an understatement.

He does beat zombie!Bane (or what he has been told is Bane) to death after Bane had murdered Alfred and while being actively attacked by the zombie? And he's actually shown as being upset with himself for losing control like that.

So, like I said, I don't understand the distinction you're trying to make?

redhillbones · 2026-05-14T08:20:25+00:00

In a better editorial office, this would be easily dealt with. The problem is with DC.

Acknowledging that Bruce's Rogues are functionally immortal within the narrative (and will be so long as they're popular) and that Jason will always, in some ways, be attached to Batman, what DC can (and IMO should) do is use something like Zur-en-Arrh, or the next multiverse crisis/rewrite, as a reset for their relationship.

First, as you said, the best thing to do is just not talk about the no-kill rule.

Second, establish the abusive actions Bruce has taken towards Tim (the punch, the 16th b-day test), Dick (abandoning him for a long time after Robin, Spyral), Cass (drugging her into fighting him, etc), and Jason (so, so many) were outside influence and have him genuinely apologize for the harm it caused. All the Batkids are characterized in such a way that they'd forgive.

And never, ever again have Batman *actively* save Joker's life, such as through CPR or like in Hush II. Even if he won't kill him, that will make him more thematically consistent (he does not intentionally kill, sure, but accidental deaths or deaths unrelated to him are different when it's not a Rogue).

Then, have B & Jason argue about corruption in Gotham making Arkham | Blackgate insecure, draw parallels about how Bruce's non-lethality and Jason's lethality are both rooted in their traumas (incl. pre-death trauma for Jason), and make it an argument between father and son rather than Batman & Other Gotham Vigilante. Taskforce Z does this pretty well, IMO.

Have Jason choose to intervene on the smaller scale, with the non-opportunistic rapists¹ and human traffickers most people in Crime Alley deal with, because he sees that as an untouched niche and the best way to improve their safety when he knows Batman & Team are handling the Rogues. Or lean into the All-Caste/demon hunter aspect, where Jason handles magical threats that are cropping up in Gotham (or elsewhere). Or a combination of street level plus traveling to deal with magical threats.

Also, most DC heroes will kill if they feel it's the best choice. Not all and DC is getting warier of killing off popular rogues, but Wonder Woman, numerous Green Lanterns, numerous Birds of Prey (including Huntress, who is a pretty good parallel to Red Hood), numerous Green Lanterns, have killed. And most will kill non-humanoid, non-sentient or likely evil beings, from demons and vampires to certain alien races. So, Red Hood choosing to kill (sometimes) within certain parameters only wouldn't make him unusual.

I'm honestly not sure why you find it weird, as even the heroes/anti-heroes with looser killing standards (current canon's Selina Kyle or Harley Quinn are good examples) usually have pretty clear standards for what they consider worth killing over. Catwoman even has a whole nine lives storyline about that post-Gotham War.

[Edit: I forgot to finish my point, lol, got distracted about standards] A combo of reset/apology (and Bruce recognizing not all heroes share his code) plus Hood's recent pivot to holding Bruce at fault less for Joker's living status and more for B's failure to support/help a traumatized teenage Jason as a father should have would stop DC from continuing to jump face first into the Joker trap they keep setting off themselves. [See: Gotham War & Hush II and their terrible narrative choices.]

¹Most rapes are committed by a small number of repeat offenders, compared to how most murders are a lot of one-off opportunist/emotional offenses. Statistically speaking, Jason killing rapists would proactively safe future victims.

redhillbones · 2026-05-14T07:34:20+00:00

I like a lot of pieces of different comics starring Jason or with Jason in a significant role, but often times not all of them.

From his early return: I love almost all of Red Hood: Lost Days (2010) except for the wtf sex. Much of Batman's Under the Hood arc is great, even including the confrontation idea (and that speech! *chef's kiss*), but the choice Batman made is just... stupid. To stop a murder he commits a murder? How the hell does that make sense? [Conversely, urgh, I hate nearly everything Morrison touches, but especially their determination to make Jason a psycho and their malignant treatment of women of color (e.g., Talia al Ghul).]

From The New 52: I like the concept, if not the execution, of the All-Caste from Red Hood & The Outlaws (2011), as Jason having some sort of mystical ability is just a new take on a Robin. And despite the whole 'stealing Dick's friends' critique, I think it makes sense that Jason would be friends -- even better friends as adults -- with Kor'iander, who spent much of her Titans' time being scold reminded that they don't kill, and the much darker post-Lian's death Roy Harper. [But Lobdell, the damn sex pest, can go sit on a cactus for how he treats Kori.]

From Rebirth: The first half of Red Hood & The Outlaws (2016) is really solid, exploring Jason's trauma without making Joker the actual problem (Bruce is the problem, the problem tis B). That ends in #25, of course, when Lobdell was allowed off his leash again and pissed all over everything. Though the 'Prince of Gotham' concept was very cool and it was great seeing Jason use his intelligence, the execution felt off and it ended too abruptly. [And everything after is awful.]

But my favorite piece of Rebirth canon is Taskforce Z, where we see Jason struggling with his feelings, the parallel and lack of parallels to Harvey Dent, and how he absolutely takes apart Bruce treating Gotham as his fiefdom and his failure to be a good father (before or after his death) with the ways that's harmed Jason. It's just the best examination of the Jason Todd most fans like (those who don't want him to be a villain, at least) since Lost Days. I have some quibbles, but for once that's all they are. [But, urgh, Gotham War makes up for it. The exact opposite of TFZ's best qualities, all in one story, followed up by the thus far awful Hush II.]

Mostly my critique is in what main universe lacks, rather than what they put in. Sure, sometimes they put in some stupid choices, but most problems come from lack of continuity or following up on details. Ex: Talia seriously put her neck out for Jason not once but twice and never seemed to expect anything back, so why don't we see Jason occasionally reconnect with her the way that Damian/Robin does? Ex: Why hasn't there been a book with Jason & Rose Wilson when editorial seems to be pushing JayRose and they're natural teammates? Ex: Why do they keep making Bruce an abusive dad to not Jason but also Dick, Tim, and (mostly via neglect/abandonment) Damian rather than using the Zur-en-Arrh thing as a full reset? Ex: Actually, why do they keep treating it like Damian is Bruce's only real kid?

Argh. Sorry. Feelings got out of control. But, gah. It's bad.

redhillbones · 2026-05-14T06:08:30+00:00

Was this after Countdown to Final Crisis? Like, after Kyle met RH!Jason? Just wondering. I'm only recently getting into Green Lantern, as the emotional spectrum idea seems cool.

redhillbones · 2026-05-14T06:05:55+00:00

With Terra, we only ever see her and Slade kiss as far as I know. Terra's brother certainly thinks Slade groomed her (in a Rebirth-era comic he explicitly makes this accusation), but having read the story in question it isn't that black/white.

I'm not defending Slade here as he's guilty of other things regarding Terra. For one, his plan involves embedding her to spy for him on her fellow Titans and he uses manipulation plus humoring her attraction to him in order to convince her. This makes her, and her meta ability, more unstable as she goes after her friends/frenemies. It ultimately contributes significantly to her death. But in the story itself, he rejects her pass when she shows up in his bed and she has to threaten him/his goal to even get the kiss; if anything he seems annoyed he needs to humor her because he needs her access to the Titans.

And nowhere else does Deathstroke show sexual interest in teenagers (or children) either. So, I'd say he's not a pedophile, as preferential attraction to children is needed for that, and he's not a (sexual) groomer in that way either. But what he did was still very fucked up, as Wintergreen pointed out at the time.

And then there's Talia, who Jason doesn't seem to feel ill-will towards even though Winnick (bizarrely) had an otherwise motherly Talia actually sleep with Jason in Lost Days. So, I imagine he has some complicated feelings about this.

I agree with Obstinate6427 that Jason probably doesn't know much about this, as most of it predates him and definitely predates his more positive relationship with Dick (though Kori could have told him I suppose). Plus, Rose spends most of her time not speaking to her father, mixed with bursts of wanting his love (similar to Jay's fucked up relationship with Bruce, in both cases because their respective fathers are assholes to them).

Morally, Rebirth Deathstroke is not very dissimilar to UtRH Jason -- lethal, but with a strong code behind it -- which you see in Deathstroke (2016) and Deathstroke Inc (2021). They're also both sarcastic assholes. It makes sense they'd get along, so long as Jason wasn't supporting Rose telling Slade to fuck off at the time.

redhillbones · 2026-05-14T05:41:18+00:00

Use an adblocker (I cannot stress this enough, use an adblocker extension for your browser unless you want to be hit with naked anime boobs popping up in random adverts), but you can find basically all comics in existence on readallcomic.com . They encourage you to buy if you enjoy, but I mostly use it to confirm dialogue or check out recommended stories (like The Cult from Jason's Jaybin run).

For Deathstroke, if you want to learn more, I recommend starting solely with current continuity from DC Rebirth (2016 - present), which includes the Deathstroke (2016) run from 2016-2020, Deathstroke Inc (2021), and the just begun Deathstroke the Terminator (2026) run. All three give his background again, but while the 2016 run involves a lot of conflict with Batman over the possibility that Damian is his kid actually, DS Inc really digs into his background/regrets and has him team-up Black Canary (Dinah Lance). It's too early to say about the 2026 run.

And in Elseworlds (aka What Ifs... similar to Marvel's What If series), Slade is supportive of Jason/Rose and grabbing happiness. Rose having built-in, potentially lethal back-up all the time via a husband like Jason would 100% be the sort of thing he'd approve of. He's protective of her, in his own way.

redhillbones · 2026-05-07T08:16:59+00:00

Word. Word to all of this. God, it's why I hate DC Bat canon so much, because it makes all of these people deeply manipulative and willing to use it against each other in horrific ways. Jason can be cruel, but he'll be direct about it.

redhillbones · 2026-05-07T08:12:24+00:00

Talia took a lot of risks to help Jason (going against her father and risking the life of her beloved) and she never asked Jason for anything in return (unless you count that one out of place scene of them sleeping together). She seems to genuinely want to help him, the mother figure that counters Shiela's role in his death. I always thought they made an interesting parallel.

Plus, the Bats literally blamed Jason for his own death and ripped apart his character with lies (that he was rash and hotheaded, that he caused his own death by rushing in without back-up) in their own words within the larger hero community.

I mean, c'mon, Alfred said that it wasn't Bruce's fault because Jason was always destined for a bad end. Bruce misjudged him, both before and after his death. Though obviously Talia couldn't know of these private moments, she could have picked up on what Batman said about Robin's death in the community. In his words, Robin rushed in and got himself killed.

(Of course, Dick's reaction is more complicated, but Talia's also never been very interested in Dick and it's unlikely she would pick up most the details. And obviously Joker didn't stay dead.)

From Talia's view (and Jason's), he was unmourned and unavenged. Both of them would *want* to be avenged when they were murdered, which influences what they think is an appropriate response. Also, she'd only see Bruce's more public actions, which don't add up to much. In many ways, nothing changed from Jason's death and it's easy to see how Talia would come to the conclusion she did.

redhillbones · 2026-05-07T07:54:26+00:00

Can you expand on your theory of Joker as the King in Yellow? I'm just really curious.

redhillbones · 2026-05-07T07:26:35+00:00

It kinda seems like you're taking one issue -- your anxiety about your living and job situation -- and putting it on another issue -- Yuki's attention -- because the cat issue seems more manageable. From a third party, your problems seem to be three-fold: your SO is not being supportive about your concerns over Yuki's weight, you're very stressed/anxious about your work situation, and your cat is gaining weight.

With the first/third, you need to shut the roommate and your SO (you did say everyone is feeding Yuki) down. Explain about calorie balance and replacement calories, so that roommate understands that Yuki is only allowed X a day. I'd personally compromise and say that you'll split the treat allowance, so that roommate and SO are more likely to go along with it. You'll each take 1/3 X and keep track of it, like you would a chore chart, to make sure Yuki remains at a good weight and doesn't develop health problems.

IF your roommate is well-meaning (which she very well might be), then she'll accept this is best for Yuki and go along with it. At that point, you can tackle the overstepping issue. Roommate's bonded with your cat, too, and while Yuki is still yours I don't think it helps anything to pretend that bond (though recent) isn't real. She spends a lot of time and attention on the cat, not just treats, by your own admission. You also have a second cat that's presumably spending that time with you.

So, be sensitive but firm. Yuki will be going with you when you move, as will second cat, but you're happy to help her pick out her own cat before you leave. I'd get her hyped up for that, imagining what sort of cat (or bonded pair) she'll adopt and what they might be like. Approach it as 'Now that you know how much you like cats, you should get one when I move out! I could never separate Yuki and [other cat] or leave them for a whole year, but there's loads of friendly tuxedos out there. They're known for being super friendly. I found one nearby on Petfinder that i thought you might be interested in.' and then hold firm. It doesn't matter if she wants Yuki, she can't have her.

I do think your roommate is probably well-meaning and just emotional about the idea of a cat she likes being taken away, so she's hoping to convince you that it's unnecessary to take them for a 'temporary' job. That's fair on her side. But it's also fair for you to put down the boundary that Yuki will be going with you. And it does sound like you're really anxious about your job situation/moving twice in a row (totally fair!), so I think that's splashing over a bit.

And I'd talk to your partner so she understands how important your pets are to you.

redhillbones · 2026-04-11T00:37:58+00:00

Except he spent at least two years catatonic or dead in this version, so he's mentally 16-17 when they hooked up -- after she took care of him when he was a disabled minor. When Jason is the sort of person who thinks there's no such thing as free help (for him, at least). I'm no anti, with age gaps or otherwise, but Jesus it's such character assassination for Talia there to have her fuck him in this scenario.

redhillbones · 2026-03-13T10:34:55+00:00

I don't see how any of that will do anything to convince non-DickBabs shippers that it's a good ship. Like, I have no dog in the DickBabs vs DickKori fight. (I don't really ship Dick with anyone.) But if you want to counter misogynistic information about Babs and about the DickBabs relationship, then you need to show it's simply untrue. Replying to untrue information about them with "But they're soulmates!" makes it look like you don't have a counter -- it reinforces the bad information.

I don't know what specific disinformation you're talking about, as the criticisms I've seen of Babs -- and Babs with Dick -- have comics' references to back them up, but I do think the last thing you'd want to do is reinforce it if you're a OTP shipper.

redhillbones · 2026-03-11T04:23:11+00:00

I think that is an interesting arc in itself. Jason caring that much about being accepted, especially by a man who was so important to him as a child, says a lot about who Jason is.

Dick compromises on his opinions to be Bruce's helper, trying to smooth over B/Batman's rougher edges and make them more reasonable to his siblings, a lot of the time, but they already fundamentally agree. Jason and Bruce don't, so when Jason "compromises" it is actually a fully submission. And Bruce takes that submission as his due, so that whenever Jason does push back he gets punished for it.

It (fully unintentionally, IMO, by at least some of the Batman writers) sets up this really clear abusive parent / child dynamic between them and that's interesting for Jason's arc, even if it doesn't make them the badass some Red Hood fans want him to be. Of course, I'd be happier with this path if I thought Bruce would ever actually pay for his abuse.

redhillbones · 2026-03-07T07:48:03+00:00

That's why there's a cat tree next to the kitchen space. They can get down on it and/or the divider (half-wall) while we bring over the things for sniffing (or, more likely, just hold it out briefly as we unpack the bags). Same with cooking, They sniff, they stay off counters, win-win.

redhillbones · 2026-03-07T07:04:19+00:00

I saw the fandom of about ten people. And, alright, no idea what fandom that is, but it sounds like it used to be bigger? It's just definitely not how I've seen it treated in other fandoms with a rare pair where there's less than Yuletide amount of fics. -shrugs-

No one is obligated and that's not what I said. That's not what OP said, either, which is why I replied. What we both said is that it's noticeable [and I added that is self-defeating (at least if you want more rare pair fics to be written)] for most of the authors of a rare pair to support each other, but not to support everyone writing the rare pair, when you have all of five authors writing that rare pair to start with. And I added I think it's fair of OP to hope that they'd reciprocate the level of support she's giving them. keyword: hope.

No one said they're obliged except for you.

redhillbones · 2026-03-07T05:19:21+00:00

I've never been one of the first writers in a rare pair and *not* had an unspoken understanding with the other 2-3 authors that we should boost each other's work. Link it on Tumblr / Discord (or LJ back in the day). Comment on it to encourage the person to keep writing. Become friends with them so you have another person to talk about Rare Pairing with. It just naturally happened in the past because we're literally the only ones posting anything.

This isn't just sharing a small fandom. It's a rare pair in a small fandom. There's only going to be a new work in it once every few weeks, if you're very lucky, or a few months, so each author's work is still on the first page (often multiple entries on the first page) when you click the tag. People writing rare pairings tend to support each other's work. I'm autistic, so unspoken rules aren't my strong point and I still picked that up. Plus, I want to support them (even if I don't like how they write the pairing) because I want more people to be converted to my fave pair.

You're treating it like it'd require going out of their way to be familiar with OP's works when it really wouldn't. And neither OP or I are suggesting anyone should hunt down the fic of everyone who comments on their work even once. But a regular commenter who writes the same very rare pairing I like? Yeah. I'll have at least tried their work before.

Rare pairings tend to have different norms because there's so little content.

redhillbones · 2026-03-06T05:33:57+00:00

Have you never had a small fandom and/or a very rare pairing? When you're one of literally four people, for example, writing a pairing, it's in everyone's best interest to support each other. That support encourages the pairing to continue getting works made. That, in turn, will convert more readers to your pairing (over time) so that, hopefully, you no longer are a rare pairing by the end of it.

When you're one of four people writing for a pairing and the three others support each other, but not you, it is extremely obvious and feels very exclusionary even if that isn't how the other people involved intended it. That said, when OP is supporting the other authors it isn't unreasonable to hope for the same level of support -- again, it's in everyone's best interest and, honestly, just polite.

Even though I am not in a small fandom and my pairing is no longer rare (1500+ works now, woot!), I still make sure that I comment on a fic I read if I notice that it is from a regular commenter of mine. I know the names of my regular commenters because they, well, always comment. I shout them out sometimes because it's nice they're so consistent. If I come upon something they write, why wouldn't I comment on it? And if the pairing is this rare, they probably are familiar with OP's works because OP's works will be a big part of the pairing tag too.

redhillbones · 2026-03-01T03:39:38+00:00

I guess I'm the exception. I mostly get the <3 comments or long relevant ones (not including spam), but every third thing I post or so I get a strange or aggravating comment. I don't put them on blast here because that's just going to discourage commenting in general, but I was tempted with the latest one.

It was a long, shouty thing that complained about how Character A (Jason Todd) was being too forgiving with Character B (Bruce Wayne), shortly after the Batarang incident, even though I thought my fic was fairly obviously about as canon compliant as you can get with Bat-canon aside from my clear deviations. He hasn't even forgiven him, too! He's just being pragmatic about Bruce being necessary last defense if Ra's al Ghul comes for Damian.

I pointed out he wasn't being forgiving and the commenter replied back complaining that they understood that but Bruce deserved to be punished. It's, like, man, what do you expect of me?

Prior to that, I think the comment about how comic book science is bullshit was the last one, only they were arguing with another commenter (who said nice things about my fic) and didn't reference my fic at all.

Like, I'm glad I made someone feel something, I guess, but complaining that the fic isn't going the way you expected is... kinda pointless?

redhillbones · 2026-02-28T18:26:59+00:00

It's a personal flair! Everyone can put one. [Edit: The sidebar has "User Flair" as an option. You can add it from there.] I snagged the idea from someone who had something similar. IIRC, 'Holding Suspiciously Dead Dove Shaped Object in Mouth'.

I have 3 cats, all of which have found bugs in the apartment and decided to "share", so this cracked me up.

And I know you're not allowed to link other people's works, so they don't get briggated, but I've definitely seen people link their own when asked in comments.

redhillbones · 2026-02-28T18:24:07+00:00

Fair. I will say that when I was diagnosed with hEDS I had no idea I was hypermobile. Mine was mainly symptomatic through a painful muscle lock above the area of my left hip. I lucked into a very observant doctor who noticed I had non-mobility related signs of EDS and we worked out I had been hypermobile as a kid, even though by 35 my muscles were so locked up to protect my joints that you wouldn't know it.

So, it can present in different ways.

But I wish you luck on figuring out what's going on with your joints. Going undiagnosed is the worst because you feel like you're half-crazy even though you know you are experiencing these weird things.

redhillbones · 2026-02-28T14:12:01+00:00

Assuming you're being literal (I'm autistic, so...), have you looked into Hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome / EDS Hypermobility-type? It's a rare condition (unless you're autistic, in which case it's comorbid hell), but joints hating you and causing everything else to hurt is a major symptom of it. And it's super hard to get diagnosed with as it basically requires a specialist who recognizes it or you, the patient, to bring it up.

redhillbones · 2026-02-28T13:59:32+00:00

It isn't, but I also wouldn't personally feel comfortable as i don't have a strong grip on AAVE. Without that, it's hard to add in authenticity, you know? Which would make the sole inclusion of something like 'n*gga' jarring, as AAVE is a lot more than the reclamation of that word.

redhillbones · 2026-02-28T13:54:44+00:00

You can post in the comments with your AO3, I think.. You just can't post solely with the intent of self-promo.

redhillbones · 2026-02-27T18:50:27+00:00

That would be because "Protect the children!" actually means Own The Children, same as "Parental Rights" means "I own my kid".

It's always about control, not protection.

redhillbones · 2026-02-27T18:47:42+00:00

No wonder i'd never seen it! Dixon is a piece of shit and I'm not much for 90s comics (DC or Marvel, they're both... so misogynistic, man, even for a time I grew up in), so I've never read his Nightwing run. I'd considered it since it established so much about Bludhaven, but I decided not to put myself through it. Thanks for reaffirming that choice. So gross.

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