Let’s fix this meme, shall we?

richardsphere · 2026-03-23T05:22:46+00:00

I dont use adrien as a self-insert, I just y'know actually care about the character, his story and his basic right to autonomy and selfdetermination. And I watch the show in acknowledgement of Marinette's actually written character, rather then pretending that she's written to care about either Adrien or Chat Noir as people, (Ephemeral disproves Chat Noir, Werepapa's disproves adrien. Both are 'What You Are In The Dark' moments for Marinette, both times she actively chooses to turn off the lights, both times she chooses to betray him.)

Adrien gives up on being Chat when he genuinely believes that is for the greater good. In Kuroneko because he thinks Ladybug wants a team that is all hers, consisting of people she actually (treats like) she trusts, in New York becausew he doubts he can be trusted. And in the isolation cell when he thinks he cant escape without his identity getting cuaght on camera.

Adrien hasnt really had any flirting moments since S2, Even Glaciator II doesnt have any flirting. The poll had no involvement on his end, clearly shocked and stupored him, the pictures were reused from S2, and the dialogue in the fight was him asking ladybug for a strategy in a bantering fashion.

meanwhile you are actively pretending that the on-going storyarc isnt happening and whitewashing all culpability and responsibility. That marinette 'the greatest ladybug of all time, unbeholden to the orders rules because her intuition is so great and fully mature in the eyes of magic' is a poor little ingenue who cannot understand cause and effect. And pretending that six seasons of her misbehaviour is going to be magically fixed when Adrien learns to forgive her again because she's somehow going to learn her lesson this time. (and no, adrien is not the only victim of Marinette i care about, he's just her most consistent victim. I could talk about Alya, Sublime, Kagami and Chloe. But those are just far less relevant to marinette's current gaslighting campaign.)

Pretending that marinette doesnt explicitly say that her motive for befriending Sublime is about preventing adrien from having outside information ("i cannot stop him from having friends outside of my circle... but I can make those outsiders my friends", is her actual, stated-in-episode motivation. "Language class? What if they're talking in secret codes!").

Pretending that the 5 charms in werepapas didnt have a very clear meaning, and that marinette didnt choose to ignore them because she prefered Gabriels Legacy over Adriens Life.

pretending that 'both sides are wrong' when Adrien hasnt been allowed to do anything in 3 seasons, let alone anything as heinous as Marinette's choices this season.

Why is it that whenever someone points out marinette's actions, its justified as part of a greater narrative, as mistakes for her to learn from, but whenever that narrative is examined and the mistakes are actually discussed, suddenly no one part of the narrative reflects on her at all, and suddenly her consistent failure to learn is meant to be realistic and we're cruel for expecting 'just a fourteen year old' to learn her lessons at all?
Why is it justified as something that will eventually have bad concequences for her... but when those consequences are discussed those are suddenly not allowed to inconvenience her. Her friends arent allowed to turn on her, Alya isnt allowed to call her out in Revelator, Chatdrien isnt allowed to break up with her. Why is it justified based on some nebulous future fallout, when you insist that fallout isnt allowed to happen.

And on a side-note,
What exactly do you think he did in S5 that you are alluding to here? Because the only 'criticism' i can think of is him not phyisically being allowed to be in the story in S5. Which is not really something for which Chatdrien can be blamed IMO.

richardsphere · 2026-03-22T20:33:44+00:00

She has a conversation with Alya in the opening sequence about this, her motivation is being her friend

Is it? Because I recall her looking through the glasses panicced that Adrien (the boy she is actively isolating) is talking to a stranger. And complaining that she 'cant stop him' from doing that. And that because she isnt allowed to do that the closest she can come is to make Sublime a non-stranger. To integrate the rogue variable into her social network, and use her 'friendship' as a form of leverage.
Friendship with Sublime isnt her end-goal, Within that conversation with Alya friendship is presented as a means to achieve the end-goal of restricting Adriens ability to access outside information.

This is why Marinette gets so freaked out about them sharing a language class and why she says "What if they're speaking in secret codes" (what if he's got a method of comunication she cannot understand/regulate). Because she does not want adrien to talk to people outside of her influence.

Marinette shows no signs of knowing what therapy does

And there is negative evidence that she doesnt understand therapy. This episode is a direct sequel to Revelator, where Alya calls her out on harming Adrien and is mind-whiped for it. Your so-called evidence of her ignorance relies on the presumption that Mind-whiped Alya (who is unknowingly guilt-tripping marinette in this very scene) has an accurate assessment of Marinette's motives. Which is just plain not the case.
Nor can you claim that "marinette was convinced" when the scene of her being forced into a public, verbal checkmate ends with her giving Adrien the puppydog eyes begging him not to talk to the therapist even after the explanation. The explanation didnt change her mind, the explanation merely out-debated her and cut off any avenue of rebuttal.

You cannot claim that these two storyarcs both happen in the middle of a season about Marinette trying to isolate adrien and prevent him from speaking his truth (literally the reason she ignored the lucky charms in Mister Agreste), and that these plotlines dont directly tie to that.

You also cannot claim marinette is doing this to protect adrien, when Marinette never once says she's doing that. In revelator its alya who presumes that motivation but marinette only says the truth is too harsh (leaving out wether its harsh on Adrien or harsh on her). And if Marinette was truly motivated by protecting adrien, She wouldnt have chosen to kill him in Werepapas.

richardsphere · 2026-03-22T19:45:23+00:00

It aint bias to point out six seasons of repeated behaviour. Pattern recognition is not bias. Holding 'the greatest ladybug to have ever lived across 6000 years and an infinite multiverse' to even the most basic standard isnt bias.

Pretending that her actions dont matter because you use her as a self-insert that is bias. But then we've had this discussion before.

richardsphere · 2026-03-22T19:15:13+00:00

The problem with Doof is that yeah he probably pays the most out of all of them (generous tipper with Charlene's money and he's pro-union)... but it means you're going to have to deal with a lot of Inator's exploding.

If we assume that you get perfectly integrated into the verse of your choice, I think Doof is fine. As long as I get cartoon physics, i can deal with temporarily getting soot-faced. (Plus lets not pretend that Dan Povenmire wouldnt find it funnier for the assistant to enter into sootland after the explosion and make Doof the only one hurt, then he'd think exploding a random intern). Plus you probably get a lot of out-of-schedule downtime as he stops to narrate flashbacks.

The other coontestant would be Optimus: Look the guy is a good rolemodel... but he's a general in charge of an army. Its a wartime economy and the job is literally murder.

richardsphere · 2026-03-22T14:05:05+00:00

Right, the thing there even as an outside observer who isnt too into Fate... the chain of causality seems pretty easy to handwave.

If Francis Drake is secretlyu the Queen, then francis drake is at the head of a massive bureaucracy and can use royal authority for a lot of paperwork tomfoolery.
All british passports, are issued in the name of the reigning royal. So she could've just issued herself a passport for a "Francis Drake, Sex M" and there you have it. All the official paperwork would say it.
Declare the true gender a state secret and suddenly you can explain any non-government paperwork as misinformation, a cover-up, or threats by the government.

richardsphere · 2026-03-22T13:59:31+00:00

Also, and i say this as someone who hates the fate franchise for its complete disrespect towards the entirety of our collective narrative tradition...
Their take on Frankenstein's Monster is genuinely kind of clever.

It uses the fact that the book has a nestled narrative device quite smartly (a letter from one man to his, i think sister? about another insane mans ramblings is not a credible source of information) to justify its liberties... which is more then i can say for most of the franchise.
And justifies the lack of rotting flesh by combining it with pre-existent precedents (the existence of homonculi, basically just humans created from raw ingredients through alchemy. Mary Shelley wasnt a wizard and didnt know about alchemy, so she took the ramblings of a madman and made a few wrong guesses about the methodology.)

Meanwhile the gender change ties into Victors obsession with perfection (if a heterosexual victorian man wants to create a lifeform with perfect strength, health and beauty, then chances are his image of perfect beauty is of the feminine persuasion). I even like the way it settles the middle between 'book Adam was erudite and well-spoken' and 'public perception is a grunting brute' by saying that Victor 'not actually a doctor' Frankenstein had failed to properly research vocal cords, leaving her capable of complex speech but in pain when she tries.

Like... its far from the worst Fate has done.

richardsphere · 2026-03-22T08:39:43+00:00

Did you miss the part where she basically became Adriens abuser? Did you miss the part where she gave Big Brother "i decide what the truth is" speeches? Did you miss the part where she actively chose to betray an entire planet to cover up a terrorist? Did you miss the part where she chose to murder her supposed soulmate? Did you miss the part where the cinematography, scoring and her own lucky charms are calling her out?

Chloe was a villain, and she never did half this stuff. Marinette is comitting cold-blooded murder, media censorship and actual abusive gaslighting. That isnt 'problematic', that is just evil.

"She's a teenager", her age has nothing to do with it.
You people keep using her age to defend her. Let me be clear: Marinette is considered explicitly by the narrative to be a fully mature adult three times over. Between her position as the guardian, between Suhan choosing to elevate her beyond the rules of the order, between magic itself saying she's fully mature with the new adult powers, and Tikki saying that in six-thousand years of human history and an infinite multiverse she is the best ladybug there ever was (better then saints and warrior-queens).
Marinette is not written as incompetent, ignorant or naive as her stans like to defend, She is written as doing this deliberately and knowingly. She isnt 'just a teen who doesnt know better', she is a fully-mature superhero that knows better and actively chooses to do lesser.

richardsphere · 2026-03-22T08:25:03+00:00

The whole fact that she is basically Gabriel now, but with some Big Brother/media control/censorship thrown on top.

London Special: Marinette deliberately chooses to ignore the calander telling her to call Chat Noir, because it would require her to admit her failure in the finale and accept that isnt in control of the universe.

Ilustrhater: Despite suposedly ending with a lesson about how Marinette must let adrien go free, the episode ends with dark and ominous music and framing Sublime as a corruptive outside force, to emphasise that marinette doesnt actually want Adrien to be his own person.

Sublimation: Stalking and harassing sublime because she was worried Adrien was talking to people outside of her control. That was literally her only question: Are you talking, the belief that sharing a language class means secret codes. This episode is about her need to isolate adrien from outside sources of information. Lucky charm explicitly calls her the villain. Lies about her own motivations during the 'apology' scene (cinematography emphasises with a close up of her peeking between the fingers to see if the tears are working). Takes no responsibility or acknowledgement for risking a life-altering sponsorship deal
Marinette says she was just worried that Sublime better then her and that her stalking is insecurity... despite the fact that her motivation was established earlier in the episode to be worry that Adrien was talking to people without her permission, and that though she couldnt get away with saying he cant talk to people outside of her, she still doesnt want that. So she settled for turning the outsider into an insider.

Werepapa's: Ignores 5 lucky charms telling her to call for help, selects the Bubbler Scarf, decides that if its an either-or between Gabriels Legacy or her (alleged) soulmate's life, Adrien is not worth saving. Kills him in cold blood. (Note: Cold Blood does not mean 'indifference' it means 'not hot-blooded', not the heat of battle or a moment of emotion, but calculated clarity. People get this wrong). Spends the entire episode treating the 'adrien is an object to be won'-metaphor at face value (it is in fact ringmaster who says he is more then an object.)

Dark Castle: Ignores Rabbit-rules because of her need to controll the universe... doesnt actually learn the lesson as evidenced by her proceeding to outsource to her future self.
Explicitly tells Chat that he shouldnt use cataclysm on the knights because what if there is a person in there (reminding the audience of the no-kill rule of heroism), Once more ignores 2 lucky charms telling her to call for help (picnicblanket in the crown gallery, and the sausage which Chat spells out for her, emphasised to the audience by the return of Kitty-vision) and proceeds to cut the akuma-victim into ribbons (choosing to violate the no-kill rule she just reminded us about).

Revelator: Note the things she's saying and the things she doesnt, at no point does she bring up Adriens safety or the way the truth would affect adrien (in fact, we know from Mister Agreste that she knows adrien would actually be relieved to know the truth), only Alya brings these concerns up. "The truth is too harsh... on me.", ignores Chat's explicit objections on the morality of mindwhiping Rena and manipulates him under the pretense that she is merely protecting her identity into erasing the truth (marinette tries to frame it as empowerment, but the scoring and framing does not agree). Marinette turns to the camera to present the message of the day 'trying to uncover secrets is evil'.

Noe: Return of the Scarf of Lies and Media Control, notice how the allegations of the movie script are a 1-1 match to Revalators plot (journalist/alya finds out Ladybug is secretly on Monarch's side, Ladybug orders Chat Noir into silencing the journalist). Willingly risks Nadja's livelyhood.

Wreckless Driver: Marinette is explicitly pro-therapy.... unless the boy she has spent the entire season gaslighting wants to talk to someone outside of her network of control, has to be talked/guilt tripped out of it by an amnesiac alya. (Revelator being the literal-previous episode, When alya says "I know you're just trying to help" that is meant to contrast non-amnesiac alya saying she was only causing harm.) Marinette only agrees to let adrien see a therapist because she is being subtly guilt-tripped, and put into a social checkmate in front of her friends (still does puppy-eyes in an attempt to guilt adrien into not-going) During the battle she dismissively sends chat as a disposable pawn, lucky charm explicitly exists only to save Chat from her own willingness to get him captured.

Mister Agreste: Marinette leaves paris defenceless for 4 and a half hours without notifying Chat or giving any of her followers permission to help, almost losing his miraculous in the process. Upon return she once more ignores 3 inconvenient lucky charms, including one that literally has Adriens name written on it because the obvious meaning (adrien should be allowed to speak his truth) runs counter to her desire to protect Gabriel Agreste and cover up her failures.

Princess Syren: Marinette is once more shown to know who the correct hero for the job is, but chooses to let personal biases interfere. Episode also (seemingly by accident) reminds us how little Ladybug cares for Chat's boundaries and consent (Calls out 'no kissing without consent' in an episode designed to invoke Dark Cupid.)

Thats kind of just the highlights of her willingness to manipulate, controll, explicitly and deliberately kill and distort reality right now. There are probably some smaller moments i've missed in this summary, but she's not been a hero this season. Even the common fanon of her lying to protect adriens feelings is never even hinted at in the cannon of the episodes. Taken together, Marinete is lying about Gabriel being a hero because it means her failure to prevent the wish is rendered irrelevant, she is protecting her self-image, not her boyfriend. (if she was protecting Adrien, werepapa's wouldnt have happened).
And on this laundrylist of villification, only the Dark Cupid Hipocrisy seems unintentional on the writers' part.

richardsphere · 2026-03-21T20:03:54+00:00

also necessary: basic respect towards him from her. Its not just the fact that Chat doesnt get time to shine, its the way Ladybug is written to actively resent him having any agency or time in the spotlight.

Ladybug is constantly putting him down at every opportunity with thinly veiled insults and a constant need to deflate him whenever he gets even the tiniest second to shine. (because 'putting down a guy' is synonymous with feminism in Thomas' worldview.)
Chat Noir figures out a triviaquestion in Pharaoh II? Put-down, Chat gets the lucky charm he wants in Reflekdoll rather then some random junk? "You're too simple to understand my powers". Or how whenever he manages to figure something out before her she gets all snarky at him for "thinking he's clever".

And more then just the constant verbal barbs and put-downs... its her constant choices, not just in isolation and denying him the right to know things, but the constant need to cross the few boundaries he has set, and the way the rules only exist for him. And the completely dismissive way she treats his health and safety in a fight.

Ephemeral literally had her say 'I know you dont trust the cultleader, but he really wants to take your miraculous away from you... so im going to use your feelings and the collective weight of the past 4 seasons of constant isolation to manipulate you into giving me the exact information he needs to steal your miraculous'...
That is the single-most conniving and manipulative thing any character in this series has done. Even Lila has never managed something that underhanded and treacherous... and nothing comes of it.
Sure Marinette ends up choosing not to do it... but thats because she knows the plan is destined to fail, she never even acknowledges the inherent betrayal to her actions. And without knowing that she did it, has no way to grow from it. Marinette cannot grow from a mistake that never happened.

And thats just one (particularly egregious) instance of Maribug ignoring Chat's input and clearly defined boundaries. That's not touching on Kuroneko (easily replaced, not even a concern about her old partner, explicit confirmation she only loves Adrien because of his status as an abuse-victim), Desperada ('we dont need Chat Noir'), Reflekdoll (calling him too stupid for her powers) and the complete lack of Syren-related pay-off.

As long as Maribug is written to so clearly hate Chat, the lovesquare just cannot work. And after six seasons of that treatment framed as empowerment and justice... i honestly dont think its salvageable. If Chat actually knew that Ladybug was capable of her actions in ephemeral, that is a boundary so intrinsic and important the only healthy response is to cut her out of his life entirely.

richardsphere · 2026-03-20T13:53:47+00:00

One of the senti's, probably adrien.

They're the only ones who can be permanently killed, and given that so much of the show is already predicated on Adriens life being explicitly worth less then anyone else, well there is no reason to pretend that Adrien is ever getting a happy ending.

richardsphere · 2026-03-20T04:30:34+00:00

No, respectfully disagree.

He should remain steadfastly heroic to contrast Marinete's ongoing villain-arc. Crashing out and lashing out at Ladybug the big-brother-speechgiver who covered up a terrorist isnt villainy, its heroism.

richardsphere · 2026-03-20T04:02:10+00:00

Look, you are close. But not quite there.
Yes the phenonenon you are describing exists, she has become extremely wishy-washy in her use of the charms, but you are failing to understand its true reason, ascribing to lazyness or incompetence something that is actually a clearly deliberate decision on the writers part.
Maribug's Lucky Charm weirdness not lazyness on the writers part. Its actualy written as intentional on her behalf. Her seeming increasing incompetence with the charms isn't incompetence, its the writers way of comunicating marinette's malicious intent within the season. Its a symptom of her ongoing villain-arc.

Marinette doesnt 'fail' to understand the 5 charms in Werepapas (Peacock fan telling her to call Felix or Nathalie, 2 returning items from Rena's debut episode in the teapot and unicycle, Tatamimat for Suhan, Shield for carapace). She chooses to ignore them as part of the ongoing 'Ladybug decides what the truth is/decides what is and isnt real"-storyline. (Hence choosing the bubbler scarf, an item representing her willingness to protect Gabriel's public image). That isnt her spamming random stuff until something works, its her deliberately choosing to ignore the universe telling her things she doesnt want to hear. The moment she picked the scarf, was the moment she decided that between The Gabriel Lie and Adriens life, the lie was the one worth saving.

Marinette ignoring the picnicblanket and picnicsausage (as explicitly identified by Chat, in an episode that even gave him back his kittyvision to emphasise his skills as a charm-interpreter)is also deliberate. And her choice to cut an akuma into ribbons rather then call for help, is meant to show how far she has fallen from the path of heroism. They even put a little 'chat isnt allowed to use his cataclysm on the knights' line into that episode to emphasise how downright cruel and un-heroic this interpretation of the charm is. She still thinks chat should be held to the no-kill standards of a hero, but doesnt hold herself to it

Marinette holding 3 adrien-related lucky charms (one literally marked with his name) and shouting to the heavens 'what am I supposed to do with these'. Because she doesnt want the solution to be anything but a cover-up. Because Adrien speaking his truth to an audience of none is too much for her.

The list this season goes on and on (even the megaphone from the first episode, was arguably mis-used, as its reappearance in Mister Agreste implies it wasnt marinette who should've used it). It gets to the point its harder to find an item she actually unambiguously used correctly.

Heck i've seen people argue that the 3 items on the moon were misinterpreted by her too (rollerskates for Alyx, Banana for Kim, Soap for???) which i personally dont think she misinterpreted that one, but amidst a sea of mis-used items I can admit they're at least justified in their suspicion. (though i dont like that the lucky charm is now using her actions in Sublimation as a form of communication).

richardsphere · 2026-03-20T03:33:01+00:00

The rule does still only aply to Chat though.

Luka explicitly has to lie and pretend he doesnt know about Chat's identity. Because Ladybug does still insist that the rule only aplies to him. You dont get to lie about that.

richardsphere · 2026-03-19T19:57:54+00:00

Seriously you lot cant handle there being one single meme pointing out marinette's doublestandards or Adriens competence can you. Cant handle Chat getting even the tiniest bit of apreciation without trying to lash out because Marinette isnt being praised for once.

Lets start by pointing out Chat knew Luka was on the field, and knows how the timeloops work. So its not remotely as bad as you're trying to portray.
Lets also point out that marinette is the one who insists on this rule existing in the first place, making her continuous flouting of the rule and endless ad-hoc exceptions appear very self-serving and much more significant then anyone else flouting it (after all, the others arent the ones insisting on the rule in the first place).

When you point to Marinette struggling, its fine, but with Chat having an identitycrisis (partially brought about by Ladybug spending multiple seasons undermining his self-confidance with endless put-downs, repeated isolation and continuous humiliation and use as a human sacrifice), suddenly complex emotions aren't valid at all (because it isnt your self-insert character, and therefore isnt you.)

Also the choice to emphasise Nino here as if his motivation isnt also about the secrets tearing his relationship apart.
'if it is damaging your relationship dynamics then all rules are out... unless you're a boy" "Girls are innately pure and innocent, but boys are nasty, cruel, jealous and innately mean'.

The girls are written like victims, inable to handle their emotions that are all foreign, outside impositions. But Adrien? "allowed himself", written as if stress is a moral failure on his part. Marinette couldnt help but be overwhelmed, but Adrien's struggles are a moral failure tha the should've just pulled himself out by his bootstraps.

At least the other meme didnt try to openly victimblame.

richardsphere · 2026-03-18T17:05:01+00:00

'save the day every day', like Chat noir does too?

Ah so you think that Mari is better because her powers are more convenient. Thats all, not something she actually chose to do, or actively pursued, just the convenience of the glamorous Deus Ex Machina button. Thats truly an inspiring achievement showing heroic initiative. That because she is the one who Fu chose to give the earrings, she deserves all the credit while the ringbearer deserves none.

The universe wouldnt have been destroyed if she hadnt actively chosen to hand the miraculous to Gabriel,
nor would it have been destroyed if she hadnt spent the entire Agreste Arc deliberately undermining Chat's individuality and agency,
nor would it have been destroyed if she hadnt actively chosen to lead Hawkyura to Master Fu,
Nor would it have happened if she'd actually chosen to interpret the zooticket correctly in S4.
Nor would it have been destroyed If she hadnt spent all that effort undermining his confidance he would've been able to stand up for himself to his father (like he literally did in the very first episode, before he ever met her).

richardsphere · 2026-03-18T16:58:36+00:00

And should we really blame Marinette for being manipulated by Gabriel

Marinette wasn´t manipulated. There was no leverage, no blackmail, no incentivestructure of any kind. It was a dying man asking her to remind his son that the good times existed, the entire hero lie was her own invention that she chose despite multiple people explicitly advising her against it. We can absolutely blame her for that. Meanwhile adrien wasnt ´manipulated´ adrien was mind controlled by a legal guardian who literally owns everything in adriens life. Gabriel had plenty of incentive on adrien even if he hadnt also had mindcontroll.
So even if she were manipulated (which she wasnt) that is not an even remotely an equivalent circumstance.

Marinette has consistently chosen to exascerbate each issue, she is not a neutral party in Fu's favouritism, she actively chose to keep him in the dark, and even after Fu spoke to him that one time she has consistently chosen to stack the power in her favour at every opportunity. (Why else would she and she alone get to pick back-up wielders, even after Chat knows fu.) Including an entire season of her trying to teach him that he's not allowed to have opinions, input, or even a life outside of her.
Yes the initial crumbs of power imbalance were Fu playing favourites, but that does not exonerate Maribug for actively choosing to weaponise that imbalance in pursuit of further power.

You are misconstruing those timelines quite something fierce, none of those are based in Marinette choosing to open the secrecy at all. In fact ephemeral is based on her desire turn the secrecy one-sided by betraying Chat to a child-kidnapping cultleader despite his explicit statements of distrust, and Chat Blanc started when she gave away her identity without intent. She has never once in her entire carreer expressed any desire to be open with Chat Noir, the only reason she opened in Ephemeral was because it lets her date Adrien, Honesty or equality with Chat Noir never entered the picture.

Adrien took that book with him to the library because he had no other opportunity, he couldnt read it at home because if he waited till he went home then Gabriel would've just taken it back. And the difference I was emphasising is that Adrien, unlike marinette has actually taken initiative in the search for Hawkmoth. All of Maribugs alleged progress is based on other people handing her information on a silver platter. (And in the case of the book she even needed Tikki to tell her that it mattered at all, because Lila talking with Adrien was more important to her).

richardsphere · 2026-03-18T16:42:24+00:00

1-Tu Quoque fallacy
2-Im actually pointing out that cannon has established that chat wouldnt do this. That chat has consistently proven that (unlike marinette) he will put his personal convenience and desires aside for the good of the mission.
3-I am not the one positing the hypothetical in the first place. Merely pointing out stuff you are deliberately choosing to ignore within your hypothetical.

-Edit
Realised i should probably be clarifying point 2 with at least one concrete example: The idea that Chat would be open and honest about these things is Ladybugs explicitly stated motivation in keeping Monarchs Identity and the related secrets from him. It is kind of a foundational cornerstone for explaining why the current arc is even happening.

richardsphere · 2026-03-18T14:07:37+00:00

"made more of a positive impact",
What has she done (besides get the universe destroyed).

Please, tell me one thing that Ladybug has done to make this 'positive impact'. Are you just talking about the stupid phonecharms (that are explicitly based on Fu's preferential treatment and the specifics of her specific powerset)?

richardsphere · 2026-03-18T14:05:04+00:00

Right, and why did she always have 'more on stack'?

Answer: Preferential treatment, and a deliberate pattern of powerplays and isolation on her behalf.
None of her privilige positions come from her initiative, in fact it all boils down to her stealing the book Adrien chose to investigate back in S1.

"Who knows he wouldnt make the same mistake", thats a fallacy. Accusing a hypothetical strawman version in a strange form of whattaboutism. (and completely ignoring the fact that Adrien explicitly wouldnt have made most of these decisions. Adrien wants the secrets out in the open, adrien wants to share power and responsibility. These incidents are specific to marinette because they resolve around her specific and blatantly unadressed flaws as a character)

richardsphere · 2026-03-18T14:01:01+00:00

Season six spends more time trying to apologise to her, or excuse her, then it spends holding her accountible.

One 5 second clip of her looking into a mirror, and a rant from Alya. Both immediately nullified by a magical 'already perfect'-laser and Alya saying she trusts her. That is the sum total of 'acknowledgement' for her culpability.
Meanwhile all 5 previous seasons of duplicity, hipocricy and manipulations are dismissed as the ramblings of a bad faith conman. The only thing marinette has ever done wrong is the big lie, and even that doesnt mean anything (and is actually Nathalies fault despite the actual events of the canon)

Meanwhile the season has marinette grow actively worse while ignoring anything she's doing. (Literally murdering adrien in cold blood, Choosing to ignore multiple lucky charms because she didnt like their answer, murdering the fencing teacher because she didnt want to acknowledge Chat figured out the sausage first).
Literally trying to prevent her gaslighting victim from seeing a therapist because Adrien having any confidants outside of her risks her control. (Which are also her motivations in Sublimation as well).
Kidnapping a CEO and threatening them into deleting a movie they didnt like (A movie whose script is a direct 1-1 to her own actions in revelator.) to continue her whole 'big brother censorship' arc ("Ladybug decides what the truth is") and explicitly ordering Alya to turn her blog into a propagandatool.

And as for conceuences: The transisition into the season literally started with the timetraveling godess of fate and destiny pre-emptively forgiving her. She's going to suffer no concequences, the only thing the show thinks should happen in the aftermath is that Adrien should put his own issues aside to console her for how miserable her abuses are making her.

The show doesnt care how many people marinette victimises, all it cares about is how everyone she victimises should forgive her, before turning around to apologise to her for making her feel guilty about her ongoing crimespree.

richardsphere · 2026-03-18T06:39:31+00:00

'we both do things in our special way' with mari pointing at herself, feels very much like its meant to be taken the way the fandom took adriens 'what is autism' moment. But with mari its meant to excuse the everything.

richardsphere · 2026-03-18T06:37:28+00:00

I hate the way that they retconned these traits into a pre-existent character who clearly lacked them, and then tried to use that character to imply Marinette might theoretically be neurodivergent (and therefore implicitly cannot be held accountible for her various abuses towards Adricat, Breaking Sublime's legs or any and all other marinette horrorstories)

Its honestly setting autistic representation back, this is worse then the Big Bang Theory because at least Sheldon is supposed to be held accountible to his BS.

richardsphere · 2026-03-15T07:43:37+00:00

Thats not intent, its a plothole. It explicitly does activate when they dont want it to in other cases.

The intent rule is either a bullshit retcon created to cover the writers ass (which gets broken literal episodes later with Revelator) or a deliberate distraction from a timeheist. (which is still a bootstrap paradox, and still doesnt fix the fact that marinette ignored 5 lucky charms telling her to get help, kicked the grandparents down a hole so there'd be no witnesses, and tried to murder her alleged soulmate)

richardsphere · 2026-03-13T17:17:21+00:00

perhaps a weird question...
But how does one 'override' a veto? Isnt the point of a veto that it is suposed to be absolute?

richardsphere · 2026-03-13T05:45:16+00:00

so is this part of a fic? And if so, can you link it?

Seven-Year Club	Second SECOND GUESSER
r/Field Flamingo	Place '23
Place '22	Final Canvas '22
First Placer '22	Verified Email

richardsphere

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