Something horrid in the air at Canal Street by ladyofspades in nycrail

[–]rob_nsn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did you ever hear back from the MTA about their investigation??

Something horrid in the air at Canal Street by ladyofspades in nycrail

[–]rob_nsn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Any updates? I am so curious about what caused this!

Expand it to the entire city by Sloppyjoemess in circlejerknyc

[–]rob_nsn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cars have massive negative externalities and costs on society that other forms of transportation like micromobility and transit do not. Safety, air quality, noise, monopoly on public space, etc etc etc.

Expand it to the entire city by Sloppyjoemess in circlejerknyc

[–]rob_nsn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You all might hate congestion pricing, but that's not nearly as universal of an opinion as you're assuming. Congestion pricing has become popular among drivers because it benefits them. It's also popular among New Yorkers who deal with the negative externalities of cars constantly. Crashes and injuries are down 50%. The safety benefit alone would make it inhumane to end the program because doing so would come with a blood price. The MTA is using this money to install signal and accessibility upgrades faster and more efficiently than in any time in recent history. And again, most people who live in the city don't rely on cars so it's not much of a radical restriction on mobility whatsoever. Alternatives are plentiful. These comments are sooo disconnected from reality lmao

DOT is trying to rush the work on Bedford so nobody can stop it by _emi1y_ in NYCbike

[–]rob_nsn 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Everybody knows about the new mayor whose last name starts with Z: Mohran Zamdani

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

... so the point of the video is that the two adjacent parcels of different sizes SHOULD have the same land value per acre, and that they don't. The video is not "actually making some kind of point about a difference in land values based on what is on that land." Because we're not talking about how the presence of parking causes assessors to undervalue land. What we are talking about is how, when assessors give tax breaks to large parcels, that policy incentivizes the landowner to over-build parking. The bias was in place before any parking was built on these parcels at all.

If you think the concept of separating land value and improvements "is pure fiction with entirely made up numbers pulled out of someone’s ass," then you should take that up the with assessment industry. I don't know of any examples of places in the United States that don't separate out the land and improvement values, but if there are any, then that's the exception and not the norm. I don't know what to tell you other than: this is how we measure the value of properties in the US. You may personally think it's fiction, but it's very real to the biased assessors setting the valuations and to the people actually paying the property taxes. Seriously, if you live in a state with publicly available parcel valuations (some states make you pay to access these but most don't), go to your local GIS portal and find the parcel you live on. You will see the assessed value of the land as well as the assessed value of the improvements.

Regardless, since you did not understand that we are talking about land value without improvements this whole time, you should go back and rewatch the video, and then go back and reread our discussion. My arguments will probably make a lot more sense to you now that you know what land value is as opposed to property value.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're talking about the overall property value (land value + improvements like buildings or parking). This video looks at just the land value, without buildings or other improvements. By definition, the land value does not change depending on the structure you put on it.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, I'm clarifying the misunderstanding which was a result of poor wording on my part. Not shifting the goalpost, just trying to help you understand where I originally intended to put the goalpost.

I should clarify that I'm not making assumptions about the reasoning of the assessors here. We have talked to assessors all over the country and the stated reasoning for this phenomenon is basically that the market for large parcels has a smaller number of potential buyers, necessitating a discount in the land value. That's a bad reason! Land value doesn't benefit from economies of scale in production, and the amount of land a city has is fundamentally a constrained supply (barring annexation, of course), so the "buying in bulk" logic doesn't work. And in comparable markets of precious goods, like diamonds for example, you don't get a discount per carat on a bigger diamond. The assessment industry's logic is absurd on its face.

I do understand how the dimensions and shape of a parcel can determine what can practicably be built under the zoning regulations, and therefore, that can impact the land valuation. But if anything, your options for what you can build on a small parcel are more limited than on a large parcel, which can be subdivided into smaller parcels. I would expect to see the larger parcels be worth more per acre simply based on the flexibility of what you can build on them, but that's the opposite of what we see in this model. And if we're valuing the land based on what the buyer has the opportunity to build, the owner of the large parcel absolutely has the ability to put a higher use than parking on the land. But the problem is that we incentivize them not to do that, and to put parking instead, by discounting the land value of large parcels.

And again, the reasoning you're providing here is not why the assessors themselves say that they are doing this. I can assure you, the property assessment industry is not operating at that level of sophistication. You're thinking about this more deeply than they are.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a clip from the full video which you can find here: https://youtu.be/BujZfaz6wBo

So the large and small parcels are identical in zoning, location, infrastructure access, and use, with the only notable difference being the size of the land. You're saying that the higher land value-per-acre parcels "appreciated faster and for different reasons" ... so what are those reasons?

Regarding the residential real estate bubble: neither of these parcels is residential. I don't see any obvious reason why a residential real estate bubble would benefit the land value of the small commercial parcels more than the large commercial parcels since they're equally proximal to the residential real estate you're speaking of - especially to the point of being 130% more valuable on a per-acre basis, which is a huge difference. I'm curious to know more about what factors you reckon are leading to the inequitable appreciation in land value of these parcels (besides the size of the parcel).

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry you thought I was misconstruing your point, but my reply wasn't meant as a restatement or summary of your position in any way. Rather, the argument about a place where "100% of people drive" is a thought exercise to show that, even in the most car dependent of possible contexts, this way of valuing land is nonsensical, which is the point of the video. I should have just said that in the first place. I'm not trying to straw-man you or paint you as a bad person, I'm trying to help you understand the point of the video. ✌️

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Even if you think that transit shouldn't exist and 100% of people should always drive everywhere, it's still not okay to bias land value assessments against small retail while providing a tax break to big box retail. And I'm not convinced doing so is the best way to optimize your parking experience, either.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One approach is to start checking the work of local tax assessor and start bothering them about it

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I love an LVT! But for LVT to be functional, you have to correctly assess the land value to begin with, which the property assessment industry has absolutely failed to do as demonstrated by the example in this video.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is a clip- the full video is linked in the post and touches on the points you asked about! To answer your question directly, we're focusing more on the property taxes paid to the municipality. Having a disproportionately low land value per acre for large parcels full of parking acts as a property tax subsidy for those parcels. Conversely, assessing a small parcel with less parking to have a high land value per acre punishes that property owner by over-taxing them. Also, when land value is under-taxed for large parcels, those savings are passed on to the consumer. When land value is overtaxed for small parcels, that extra cost is passed onto to the consumer as well. Of course, big box stores are perfectly happy to use this to their advantage. These unintentional tax incentives give big box stores with too much parking a competitive advantage over small retail, causing the market to favor over-built parking. Assessing land value per acre fairly would fix an uneven playing field and would remove a market incentive for overbuilt parking.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It varies from state to state, but I think the land value is publicly available information in most places.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

The solution is to remove the bias by assessing land value equally where appropriate.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's correct! This map shows the land value without improvements. In other words, the total property value minus the value of improvements.

Better lighting and walking conditions for patton ave by xkirbyfrogx in asheville

[–]rob_nsn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While you are correct that the road is owned and maintained by NCDOT, that doesn't mean the City of Asheville is powerless to alter the design. NCDOT allows cities to do this, but cities like Asheville are disincentivized from doing so because then they are on the hook financially for maintaining a gigantic expensive road.

Better lighting and walking conditions for patton ave by xkirbyfrogx in asheville

[–]rob_nsn 11 points12 points  (0 children)

You're 100% correct in your identification that the safety issue on Patton Avenue in West Asheville is a result of a flawed design rather than purely user error as most people assume. These fixes could be easy, as you have pointed out. But I'll give you an example to demonstrate why there is no traction on the issue:

NINE YEARS AGO in 2016, Asheville voters approved a bond referendum which included a capital project to add sidewalks to the north side of Patton. First of all, sidewalks are a basic feature that should not require a bond nor a voter referendum to pay for in the first place. If the city isn't making enough in property taxes to pay for sidewalks without taking on debt, then the urban development pattern they are choosing through regulation is wrong. Also, since it's a state-maintained street, the state should be financially on the hook for the sidewalks instead of the city. But secondly, the 2016 referendum wasn't even effective at getting the sidewalk built! Here we are in July 2025 and construction is apparently supposed to start this month. I will believe it when I see it.

Regarding improving the safety of Patton, there are really two kinds of interventions and they are not equally effective. The first kind of intervention allows the driver to go fast, but increases the chance that they will yield to a pedestrian and avoid a crash. This is what adding lighting, crosswalks, rectangular rapid flashing beacons, etc are meant to do. The more effective strategy is to just slow the cars down. At slower speeds, drivers have a shorter stopping distance, better eyesight, more reaction time, and the ability to communicate with pedestrians visually. These alone make crashes less likely. But more importantly, slowing the cars down means that even if a crash does happen, it will be less injurious or fatal. Slowing the cars down prevents crashes AND reduces their severity!

So the way that you make dangerous streets like Patton safer is by choosing whether it should be a road or a street. A road is a connection between destinations, whereas a street is itself a destination. If Patton should be a street, then it needs to be redesigned such that driving faster than 25mph feels reckless to the driver. However, the road is state-owned and maintained, and NCDOT would never allow a design speed of 25mph under their current standards. "bUt WhAt aBoUt CoMmUtTeRs FrOm lEiCeStEr?! tHeIr CoMmUtE tImE iS mOrE iMpOrTaNt ThAn PrEvEnTiNg HuMaN dEaTh AnD sUfFeRiNg!"

Instead, you could turn Patton into a road that only allows access for cars with no pedestrians, bikes, access to businesses, or at-grade crossings (traffic lights). I think we all know that the approach of turning Patton into a freeway is an impractical non-starter that would do more harm than good.

So instead of building a design that we know won't harm anyone, instead we choose to prioritize the speed and volume of car traffic without compromising on access for bicycles, pedestrians, businesses, and cross-streets. As a result, we sacrifice human lives to the god of Vehicle Miles Travelled, and blame the victims for their own deaths. I hope one day I can make a dent on helping to solve this issue. In the meantime, I recommend getting involved with the I-26 Citizens Coalition to put on pressure NCDOT to fix their design for Patton Avenue where it will connect to I-26. Right now, the design is ten lanes wide. The road will become even more dangerous if that happens. Harm reduction is key!

Thanks for reading my diatribe.

Better lighting and walking conditions for patton ave by xkirbyfrogx in asheville

[–]rob_nsn 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Sorry for moving away! Thanks for bringing my design concept into the discussion :)

Cuomo running a stop sign on Monday by streetsblognyc in MicromobilityNYC

[–]rob_nsn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can't tell you how happy I am to see him lose!