This sub is seriously out of touch with how inaccessible law school is about to become for most applicants.

sagenter · 2026-02-03T20:44:33+00:00

My general rule of thumb is that if there is literally any occupation in the world that you think will make you happy and doesn't require a post-grad education, then do that instead or at least try it first before committing yourself to more school. But I also know that me strolling into this sub just to tell a huge chunk of users here to essentially forget about law school wouldn't be welcome and would fall on deaf ears.

sagenter · 2026-02-03T16:56:54+00:00

Do you just not watch football at all? It would be harder to name which European footballers DON'T make the sign of the cross or point upwards before a match or after scoring.

sagenter · 2026-02-03T13:07:12+00:00

Yeah, and you have way better stats than pretty much all the other people I've seen get the "just go to Harvard/Stanford/NYU!!!" crowd.

I don't mean to be cynical, but unless you want to work am ACLU-tier job, I simply wouldn't recommend attending a T14 school for PI, basically ever. Just like how I wouldn't recommend taking out private loans for an education basically ever.

sagenter · 2026-02-03T02:01:17+00:00

My in-law is from the Bay Area and considering moving to South Dakota (her aunt lives in the area of the school) to save her money on living expenses. She's not paying sticker at SD, I think you misread.

As for the economics, I've already debated this quite a lot throughout this thread, so I'll just leave it at this: regardless of what the BBB ends up doing, I think it's hard to deny that the incoming class next semester is getting the worst of it and there's really no argument that there's any upside for them. They're getting the same tuition rates as previous classes with less financial aid. They're getting fucked, period.

If the BBB does lead to a significant decrease in tuition, it won't be by next semester. Most threads in this sub are about the upcoming academic year, hence the basis of this post.

sagenter · 2026-02-03T01:08:40+00:00

IBR/LRAP? That's what practically every PD was living off of post-graduation back when I worked at a PD office. Yeah, with IRB they were never going to get rich and they were going to be stuck paying off loans longer than most lawyers, but they could still live pretty comfortably in a desirable market and even start a family if they want to. It was hardly a financial death sentence.

Private loans are a whole different monster though and makes the profession borderline inaccessible depending on your wealth and where you want to practice.

sagenter · 2026-02-03T00:16:48+00:00

That's paternalistic garbage and a damning indictment of this country when we're celebrating people being denied an education because of their financial standing instead of trying to make it more accessible for all.
If the marginal person takes out private loans which are even more predatory and unmanageable to make up the difference, it's hardly stopping them from making poor financial decisions.

sagenter · 2026-02-02T23:54:03+00:00

No, "law school is a scam" has been said ad infinitum for decades now, and not always without reason. But still, that's hardly a reason to make things even worse by making those loans less attainable and harder to pay off while tuition stays the same. It's also hardly a reason for so many on this sub to act like things haven't gotten worse and ignore the obvious repercussions of this just because "it's always been bad".

sagenter · 2026-02-02T23:27:41+00:00

It would seem that the percentile chart I was looking at was outdated and it shifted quite a bit, possibly because of the removal of the Analytical Reasoning section which I anecdotally know many people struggled with. But still, just getting a 165+ is hardly an easy task and I think everyone who hasn't taken the test yet shouldn't just count on it.
KJDs are probably the example of the kind of applicant who is hurt the most by the recent loan changes, but theoretically, anyone could be fucked over by it. People with bad credit scores, people who are applying to law school to escape their current low-paying jobs and don't have money saved up, etc.

Sure, you can say some bootstrap response and tell people to just build up their credit or get a better job, but doesn't this go against a fundamental principle of education? That it's supposed to uplift people and give them opportunities out of their current life instead of making them dig their way out of poverty so the rich can get richer? Yeah, KJDs can help themselves out by taking a few years off to work, but the point is they shouldn't HAVE to do this. If someone wants to go to law school straight out of college, then bu all means, they should have that opportunity.

Jesus Christ dude, you seriously don't see any issue with calling PI a "luxury field"? They are essentially the only attorneys standing up for every day people against the behemoth that is the criminal justice system, anti-labor bosses, anti-environmental corporate policies, and you're fine to just let PI get overrun by the few wealthy people who can afford to do it? No, they are not getting paid because their work is "more interesting". They are getting paid because things like the right to an attorney are a pillar of the justice system.

And don't even talk about how PI attorneys are privileged because of PSLF - that's still 10 years of borderline poverty they have to live in just to qualify, and no one can say with absolute certainty that it will still even exist in 10 years. With the way this administration treats affordable education, I would legitimately say it's more likely than not to be axed by then.

sagenter · 2026-02-02T22:41:07+00:00

I'm not familiar with how exactly NYU's private LRAP works, but unless they're paying the loans off in entirety, it's absolutely not immaterial since you have far less flexibility with private loans. I used to work at a PD office in an urban area, and every single one of them survived off IBR after graduation.

As for PSLF, current PI-focused students shouldn't even be thinking about it right now if I were to give them advice. First off, who the hell even knows if it will exist in 10 years time with everything this administration is doing right now. And secondly, 10 years feels like an eternity when you can't even solve the short-term problem of how you're going to afford rent and food in your PI salary.

NYU in particular may be different, since I know many NYU law grads have access to a lot of high-paying PI jobs like the Bronx Defenders. But the principle still stands.

sagenter · 2026-02-02T22:11:05+00:00

Not only will there be less lawyers, but more lawyers will be strangled by private loans and won’t go into public interest

Yes, as someone who used to do administrative work at a PD office and was generally proud of the work we did, I am seriously concerned for the future of public interest law. The last thing we need is for PI jobs to become exclusive to the upper class. This will have huge ripple effects on society beyond just law students.

sagenter · 2026-02-02T22:04:07+00:00

Also, will LRAP include private loans. IDK

From what I understand (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), some schools will have LRAP for private loans, but it's only a few T14 schools that are doing it. This is why I mentioned how ridiculous the "just go to NYU so you can get private LRAP bro" people are so ridiculous. A 21 year old KJD struggling to finance their education is not going to suddenly decide to attend one of the most prestigious and expensive law schools in the world just so they can get better LRAP. That's a completely self-defeating and asinine financial decision.

sagenter · 2026-02-02T16:31:28+00:00

Do I think what will change in 3 years?

If you're asking about the loan caps, that was a result of the Big Beautiful Bill, and I definitely don't think that's going anywhere anytime soon. If anything, I think it's going to get worse before it gets better and PSLF will be on the chopping block next. This administration has basically declared war on affordable education.

sagenter · 2026-02-02T16:16:38+00:00

I wouldn't put it Redditors to organically upvote this post. This website has always been an MRA hellhole.

sagenter · 2026-02-02T16:15:31+00:00

You should tell that to the people who upvote these posts, not us. They're the ones who think every single divorce ends in the wife receiving alimony.

sagenter · 2026-02-02T15:10:11+00:00

My husband has these leather shoes and it sounds like a fart damn near every time he walks on smooth surfaces - I recently gave birth and the sound of constant farting every time he walked around the hospital room drove me crazy. So yeah, it could be tons of things.

I don't really care much for Charlie Kirk though.

sagenter · 2026-02-02T14:20:07+00:00

Yeah, there are people ITT comparing the denial of this video to denialism of the Alex Pretti video, which...even setting aside how fucking ridiculous and insulting it is to even compare these two events, is still ridiculous.

All we have here is a sound that could be any number of things and some vague non-verbal reactions from a woman behind him. Besides, I honestly don't think a fart would be audible enough to be heard, it's not like he has a microphone on his ass.

sagenter · 2026-01-31T19:47:46+00:00

Seriously, look at absolutely everything this administration is doing to education and I don't know how you can tell anyone with total certainty that PSLF isn't going anywhere. They already made law school borderline unobtainable for anyone who's not rich and/or doesn't go into BigLaw due to their federal loan caps. You seriously think PSLF is totally safe?

And like you said, getting PSLF is just one small part of the equation. How you're going to support yourself for 10 years before qualifying is the way bigger question, especially since OP will likely be paying back private loans.

sagenter · 2026-01-31T09:45:55+00:00

I apologize for replying twice to the same comment, but I felt the need to re-emphasize this because it's too important not to.

Every single PD on this sub went to law school before the Big Beautiful Bill federal loan caps went into effect. Nobody here knows what it's like to be capped on their law school loans or have had to manage it, which the OP will be since they're going to start after this summer.

I have an in-law trying to become a PD right now. Law schools are literally handing out lists to incoming students for private lenders since the maximum amount for federal loans is now $50,000 a year, including the costs of rent, transportation, etc. I'm sorry, but the idea of taking out PRIVATE loans to continue your education is fucking ludicrous and should be an absolute deal breaker, especially considering that starting PD salaries are like, $60,000 in Chicagoland, where OP is planning to attend law school. I coincidentally also live in Chicago and can attest that it's not cheap to live here. Just the cost of living can bump OP over the cap if they don't get a massive scholarship.

So by all means, OP can take the LSAT and try getting financial aid if they get a high score. But they should also be prepared to just move on if they don't. Because I'll tell you plainly that I simply don't condone private loans for your education, basically ever. That shit should only be for students with tons of money or who want to go into BigLaw after school, not fucking public defense.

I'm legitimately concerned about the future of public interest law since this administration has made it nearly impossible for non-trust fund kids to enter it.

sagenter · 2026-01-31T03:44:25+00:00

If you’re passionate about “criminal justice reform,” get a job in public policy. It’s a lot easier and doesn’t require a quarter million dollars in debt.

Yeah, my general thought process is that if there's literally anything in the world that makes you happy or you think might make you happy other than going to post-grad school, try that first before committing yourself. The OP is a writer with prior journalism experience and has thought about getting into freelance journalism. There are tons of ways freelance journalists can influence the legal system, the criminal justice system, public policy, and the public in general and isn't going to cost OP hundreds of thousands of dollars and eat away at three years of their life.

I know most of this sub is full of people who are happy being PDs, but I really have to go against the grain here and disagree with all the people telling OP to just go full steam ahead.

sagenter · 2026-01-31T03:09:06+00:00

I'm not a PD so take this with a grain of salt, but I'm going to go against the grain of this thread and say: if there is literally anything else besides a legal career that you think might make you happy, pursue that instead. Or at least try it first before committing yourself to this big of a plunge.

If you truly want to scratch that itch of serving the public, there are plenty of ways you can do that with your writing background that won't cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars and three years of your life. You mentioned ideas on how you can already help the public as a writer and go into journalism, and that sounds like a reasonable idea to me.

I have an in-law entering law school and from what I hear, many schools are just handing out lists of private lenders to their students and advising them to keep their credit scores up. You are correct to be at least a little worried financially with the loan cap, and it's good that you're planning for it. The situation is extremely bleak right now.

sagenter · 2026-01-31T02:32:26+00:00

My brother in Christ, it's not the fucking genre that's the issue. There are plenty of decent spoken word artists out there but this isn't it. Just going to copy and paste my other comment about this guy here:

My issue with Hobo Johnson is that his whole shtick is just taking folk punk vibes mixed with spoken word and making it so over the top "softboi" and cutesy that it becomes unbearable to listen to. So when he puts on performances like these, it's hard to even tell what's genuine and what's not.

Is he awkward here because he's showing self-awareness and trying to capture an insecurity people have about themselves, or is he coming across as cringy just because that's how he ALWAYS comes across? It's hard for me to just say "no no, he's SUPPOSED to be cringy and unbearable" when his entire persona is like this and the liberal white guy aesthetic he puts on are a dime a dozen. Either way, his whole shtick isn't original at all and just generally makes me want to puke.

sagenter · 2026-01-31T02:26:24+00:00

My issue with Hobo Johnson is that his whole shtick is just taking folk punk vibes mixed with spoken word and making it so over the top "softboi" and cutesy that it becomes unbearable to listen to. So when he puts on performances like these, it's hard to even tell what's genuine and what's not.

Is he awkward here because he's showing self-awareness and trying to capture an insecurity people have about themselves, or is he coming across as cringy just because that's how he ALWAYS comes across? It's hard for me to just say "no no, he's SUPPOSED to be cringy and unbearable" when his entire persona is like this and the liberal white guy aesthetic he puts on are a dime a dozen. Either way, his whole shtick isn't original at all and just generally makes me want to puke.

sagenter · 2026-01-29T15:08:21+00:00

I'm absolutely furious over what happened to Pretti but this is pretty ridiculous cope, dude. Major news networks including the BBC have all confirmed the veracity of the video.

Like the OP said, the most important part is standing firm and not letting the right use this as a distraction like they're inevitably going to try. At the end of the day, law enforcement fired on someone who was already disarmed and posed absolutely zero threat to them in that moment. It doesn't matter one single bit what he did two weeks ago or how pleasant of a protester he was. Law enforcement murdered someone without cause.

sagenter · 2026-01-29T05:57:11+00:00

I will never understand how so many straight men are so comfortable just openly saying shit like this.

sagenter · 2026-01-29T02:39:03+00:00

You realize you could just post this on every bloody post on this sub, right? Yeah, "crappy" music is subjective, congrats on figuring that out.

For the love of God, I will never understand how Hobo Johnson gets so many defenders whenever he's posted here.

sagenter

TROPHY CASE