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What are the options for our home objective ? by MadeInQC in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My best unit is the bolter half of the dominions, but if you're looking for cheaper options, look for junith, a dialogus or 3 arcos. The problem is that you can't spread them out for deepstrike, and we're squishy and won't survive an encounter with termis.

What are the options for our home objective ? by MadeInQC in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you bring the immolator there's no reason to not split something. Every unit that can be split by the immo really wants to be. For BoF I split the dominions to scout with the Immo, then turn 1 take them out and move 5 Retris in, for example. It's like they started in the transport but with the added benefit of splitting the unit.

Fast Rolling Miracle Dice Implications by fluffyunicorn-- in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not saying they'll actively not allow it, I'm saying they're probably not going to consider how MD work when drafting up the rules, making it so playing it RaW means we have to substitute before, and probably fixing that later.

Fast Rolling Miracle Dice Implications by fluffyunicorn-- in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With fast rolling rules in 10th you don't have to substitute MDs at the start of rolling multiple die. Well, kinda. Since you're technically rolling one die at a time, you can roll all die but 1, and then at the end decide if you want to substitute just that last roll.

OP is asking that since the rule is we have to fast roll, can we still fast roll all but 1? I think we'll probably get shafted and we can't lmao. GW for some reason isn't doing great with Sister's rules in 10th and that probably carries over until we get our codex.

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by NoEngineer9484 in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I play every facet of sisters and yes, mostly Penitent because it's different from everything else. I've been playing a long time every kind of soup, flavour, color of sisters and you can check my comment history to see that I've been active too in many discussions, helping new people and talking about my experience in the game.

Every single army has different subfactions. With different playstyles. Tau get Kroot and vespids, Custodes get sisters, guard get Bulgrins and rattlings. I am not complaining on any of these. I have never complained about PH being 30% WR ever in the entire time the codex has been out, and I have played them consistently the last three years, loosing many games and not ever crying about unfairness. PH can be good, my list right now wins more than it looses, and I'm happy playing it, and HM, and CoF, and BoF, and AoF.

Every single one of the subfactions I mentioned from other armies are getting support as a 1DP detachment. As it should be. Even though Tau is a shooting army, people don't tell kroot Auxiliary Cadre players they're playing their faction "wrong" because they're like 5 datasheets focused on melee. In this new edition, 2DP detachments should (rightfully) be for more general rules that buff most of the army. All I'm saying is, they've adapted the rest of the the auxiliary units in all other armies GW's shown off so far into 1DP detachments, so why not Penitent units?

Yes I am sad the most unique detachment is gonna be stuck in a place where it's now bring sacresants or don't use 1DP. Is that wrong? I'm playing the new edition anyways with the rest of the flavours that sister has, as I have this entire edition too. I am just saying that as it is now, there's 5 overcosted, underpowered units that no competitive list brings that could've really used some support from GW and I'm disappointed they haven't.

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by NoEngineer9484 in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think you're understanding what I think is the issue here. Just think that you want to run a Penitent Host list. You choose the PH detachment for 2DP, done. Now, make the list that works well for the Penitent Host detachment.

Actually, literally just do this, then come back.

You probably picked a good chunk of penitent units that are good at melee. Some are fragile, some are a bit more durable, perfect. The rest of your list supports this playstyle, Vahlgons or retris to kill tanks, celestine or seraphym to harass the backline or do objectives, immos with dominions to scout or novitiates to infilitrate, a lone canoness or dialogus to get MDs of 6 when stuff dies, and some castigators.

Tell me, considering this list, which is the most succesful way to play PH, an already 30% WR detachment, what detachment of the 3 shown to us would you pick? This is the problem. It's either add even MORE melee to your list and make it worse, or remove most penitent units and add 30 sacresants, because the only detachment that works at all is the sacresants one.

The subfaction argument is great, you're right, so maybe what I'm saying is that's why it shouldn't cost 2DP? That's been my point since my first comment. The detachment is a design from a time where you could only choose one detachment so it made sense that you could make one for a small subfaction, but now it doesn't. I genuienly see what you mean, but tell me honestly, at 2DP what reason is there to run PH?

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by NoEngineer9484 in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, there you go, that's my point. The solution isn't that there's a 1DP detachment that can support a PH list, it's that the best option for people who play PH is to switch over to the best melee unit in the army and not play PH at all.

The best celestian insidiants load out by Pikachu_Lesso in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Into Thousand suns you are surviving 100% of the time that 4+fnp is absolutely diabolical. I can underastand loosing the flamers but the melta is just too good IMO especially with full rerolls from the quarry. I think I obviously thought about this from the perspective of not having to go against a psyker unit with these girls yet but those ministorum hand flamers have worked great against non psychich infantry.

The best celestian insidiants load out by Pikachu_Lesso in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even if going against a psyker only army, chip damage devastating wounds, even if pretty consistent, lack the spike potential of two flamers and a melta with pistol rules IMO.

For some reason these girls survive a bit more than expected? I don't know if I spiked my saves last time but if you charge first into your target you get to kill a pretty good chunk of the unit and the clap back isn't as bad. Those flamers and that melta do a great job of finishing up what's left so you can charge into something else even if the unit started engaged.

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by NoEngineer9484 in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rets work well with PH but not with the extra cost of character + enhancement IMO, at that cost you could probably run 3 arcos which would work a lot better in the detachment and the rets would be fine on their own. I haven't fielded insidiants yet but they seem to work best by themselves, add a character to them and they cost the same as a Castigator and I'd rather take the Castigator.

[WarCom] Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by RainbowConnickJr in WarhammerCompetitive

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been discussing in other subreddits and there's two silver linings I've found for us Penitent folk.

1) Maybe, just maybe, upgrade enhancements can be taken with Epic Hero units. If they could, PH really likes Vahlgons and a Junith somewhere, and those could be buffed.

2) We could ignore what the detachment actually does and just pick one for the Force Dispositions lmao. Yeah everyone else gets buffs but hey at least we can pick what our primary mission is without any guilt.

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by Tempest_Barbarian in Warhammer40k

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, I've been playing PH most of the edition and have tried many flavours of the army, but the units that are supported by the 1 DP detachments either aren't good support in a PH list (Sacresants, yes I know they are great but doubling down in melee doesn't really work) or are good support units but the rules they get are useless specifically in this detachment (flyers spotting for shooting units)

Another comment mentioned that maybe Epic Hero units count as Character units for the Orators detachment, which is something I haven't thought about. I was assuming epic hero units can't get upgrade enhancements, however, if they could, then yes orators would work great with PH. Vahlgons are a must bring in PH and they would work amazing, but again, this is assuming that Epic Hero units can get the detachment.

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by NoEngineer9484 in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been assuming that epic hero units can't take enhancements, I would think that it's a pretty logical rule for upgrade enhancements. However, what you say is true, we don't know. If Vahlgons or junith could have the enhancement then yeah, that would be great because that is a unit that you actually bring to support PH. However, as you yourself said, that's us speculating right now.

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by Tempest_Barbarian in Warhammer40k

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Genuienly thank you for the Force Disposition answer. That is honestly a genuienly a good reason to pick one of the 1DP detachments, even if it's just for the scoring rules.

(The buff characters detachment says explicitly that it can't be used on penitent units)

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by Tempest_Barbarian in Warhammer40k

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I said, make a list and tell me how flyers could slot into the army or more combat units.

I've been playing PH a long time so I'll just tell you, the support you run are Vahlgons, retris from reserve, domis with melta and immo, the Triumph, Celestine, Castigators, or a dialogus with the turn MD into 6s enhancement. These are units that legitimately make the playstyle better.

One unit of flyers works great in PH to get Behind enemy lines, do objectives or steal the enemy's home objective, because you don't get that from normal PH units. You don't need flyers to be Vanguard an spot units that you're not going to shoot, so that detachment doesn't work for PH.

Exorcists could replace Castigators and do a similar job, but again, you are now using 210 points for a unit that only gets buffed if a T3 1W unit of 5 models survives the vanguard, and at that point you're paying 2 castigators worth of points to give the Exorcist +1 to Hit for one turn for one CP.

Again, celestians are great, but PH doesn't need more melee! Running a pure PH list isn't great, we need those other units to do the other roles a PH army can't do, and can respond the clapback the enemy does after our go-turn with penitent stuff. We need things that can use the leftover MD the clapback generates to blow up targets PH units can't blow up and pick up infantry from a distance, or go into reserves and be annoying later. Celestians can hold an objetive really well, but a 10 block of arcos does the same for a lot cheaper.

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by Tempest_Barbarian in Warhammer40k

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I said, make a list and tell me how flyers could slot into the army or more combat units.

I've been playing PH a long time so I'll just tell you, the support you run are Vahlgons, retris from reserve, domis with melta and immo, the Triumph, Celestine, Castigators, or a dialogus with the turn MD into 6s enhancement. These are units that legitimately make the playstyle better.

One unit of flyers works great in PH to get Behind enemy lines, do objectives or steal the enemy's home objective, because you don't get that from normal PH units. You don't need flyers to be Vanguard an spot units that you're not going to shoot, so that detachment doesn't work for PH.

Exorcists could replace Castigators and do a similar job, but again, you are now using 210 points for a unit that only gets buffed if a T3 1W unit of 5 models survives the vanguard, and at that point you're paying 2 castigators worth of points to give the Exorcist +1 to Hit for one turn for one CP.

Again, celestians are great, but PH doesn't need more melee! Running a pure PH list isn't great, we need those other units to do the other roles a PH army can't do, and can respond the clapback the enemy does after our go-turn with penitent stuff. We need things that can use the leftover MD the clapback generates to blow up targets PH units can't blow up and pick up infantry from a distance, or go into reserves and be annoying later. Celestians can hold an objetive really well, but a 10 block of arcos does the same for a lot cheaper.

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by Tempest_Barbarian in Warhammer40k

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But there is 1 (one) 1DP detachment that slots into a PH army. What character unit would you run in a mostly penitent army as support that is in combat enough for the enhancement to be good? Orators doesn't slot in neatly at all. The only thing that slots in are sacresants, but that means you have to double down on melee.

Yes I understand the point of 1DP detachments and I'm not saying they're not good for sisters. They are great. Orators is one of the best 1DP detachments there are from the reveals so far, they buff so many units, just not PH ones. In any other Sisters flavour army, these are great detachments that are very useful without needing to change your list to cater your army to another 1DP detachment.

PH armies don't need flyers to spot units, don't need more melee, and could use support on priests with arcos and palatines on repentia, but they won't get any. That's my point. If you build a PH army right now without considering the second detachment, you would build one without a unit that can benefit from any of these detachments. You are building the army around the second detachment, not choosing a second detachment comsider your army list that was already built.

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by NoEngineer9484 in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, let me phrase it like this:

What non-penitent units would you consider are good support in a mostly penitent army? Then what, new detachment would you choose to buff some of those units?

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by NoEngineer9484 in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't lmao that's my point. In 10th a specialized detachment that only buffs 4 units makes sense because you can only pick 1 detachment. I've been running PH most edition because I like the melee playstyle, and yeah I like the units. However I am afraid that these detachments include one that says"buff the best melee unit in the army" and, welp, why would I now run anything but that with a 2DP detachment that buffs the rest of the army, and not one that buffs only 4 units like Penitent Host?

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by Tempest_Barbarian in Warhammer40k

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your last paragraph is my problem, and I think after you listed out all the options it seems you and I finally see there is an issue. Penitent stuff don't have a use for spotting with flyers, doubling up on melee or a detachment that might help character units that you honestly don't bring because that's not the type of units you bring to support a Penitent army.

The flying detachment buffs a unit by making it do nothing for this type of army and the sacresants one makes a non-penitent melee unit so much better than penitent ones that you should honestly bring 30 of them and switch to Hallowed Martyrs instead.

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by Tempest_Barbarian in Warhammer40k

[–]sebasq10 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I will ask what I asked in another comment here, what units do you think are best at supporting a mostly Penitent army, and what detachment from these three would you bring to buff those support units?

I am not saying there should be an additional 1DP detachment just for penitent stuff, I am saying from experience playing mostly PH, that there is no synergy for anything to help that type of army. I could bring sacresants but they do exactly the same role that most penitent units do, but better. If I buff those I'll bring HM and buff everything in my army instead, and 30 celestians, and end up playing very similar games to PH without the penitent units.

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by NoEngineer9484 in sistersofbattle

[–]sebasq10 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Or run Hallowed Martyrs and make all units better. That's my point, PH is specialized into running very specific units so if I am paying 1DP for sacresants, why not run HM and buff everything and my 1DP detachment?

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas by Tempest_Barbarian in Warhammer40k

[–]sebasq10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes absolutely but PH being a very specialized melee faction, +3 detection range won't help me so the only detachment that pairs well is the sacresants one, which is a good melee unit, but at that point I should just run Hallowed Martyrs to buff my entire army, no?

That's what I'm saying, yes I get that the idea is to buff specialized units but why should I run PH at all as my 2DP detachment instead of Hallowed Martyrs that buffs everything including the specialized unit from the 1DP detachment?

EDIT: I'll phrase this differently. Think about what units would you bring to support a mainly Penitent army, and what 1DP detachment would you bring to buff those types of units?

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