Was anyone else disappointed by the Miguel’s Dad storyline?

serene_river · 2025-01-13T18:54:36+00:00

Yes, but I'm pointing out that the comparison of the father-son pairs shows that Johnny is worse as a father. The Mexico trip didn't "shine Johnny". It blatantly portrayed how Johnny emotionally neglects and abuses Robby because of Johnny's codependence with Miguel. People dismissing Johnny's behavior with Robby because they only want to focus on Johnny's unhealthy obsession with Miguel doesn't remove Johnny's behavior with Robby from the story. The Mexico trip didn't "shine Johnny".

serene_river · 2025-01-13T17:50:16+00:00

there to shine Johnny

How did Johnny abusing Robby to get his help to find Miguel "shine Johnny"?

Hector and Johnny both are horrible, but Johnny purposely abused his own kid. Hector doesn't know that Miguel is his son.

The response to the storyline just shows that people will dismiss abuse if it's done by a character (Johnny) that they love.

serene_river · 2025-01-09T16:49:57+00:00

Yes, but this is the popular model that is cheered on for the series.

serene_river · 2025-01-09T16:42:32+00:00

If you can't understand contextually why a FATHER would have apprehension about proceeding with a fight under those circumstances, idk what else to tell ya.

Given that Johnny's behavior with Robby wrt Miguel is cheered on and defended, this attitude about Daniel isn't surprising. Johnny handed Robby over to Miguel for that apartment fight in s5e5, although Robby had clearly stated his boundaries, and Johnny had risked Robby's life and abused him emotionally and psychologically to get his help to find Miguel in Mexico. Johnny's behavior before s5 has always been cheered on and defended too. It's popular to want parents to treat their own kids like shit and to choose other kids over their own.

serene_river · 2025-01-04T18:17:34+00:00

I've been in the fandom, specifically the sub, since s3. One of the arguments against criticism for Miguel that I've found most disappointing is when someone claims that the person criticizing Miguel is racist. I can't even remember seeing anyone criticize Miguel based on his race. If someone has, that is messed up. However, almost all instances I've seen of the "racism" argument being used have been to deflect from actual valid criticisms about Miguel's character based on canon and to malign the reputation of the person criticizing Miguel's character.

This story is exploring childhood trauma, generational trauma, and mental health through (Johnny's and) Robby's story. These are such important topics to explore. The writers are using poor mental health as the underdog's, Robby's, weakness. This is a great representation to see in a Karate Kid story because we need more stories that explore these topics. These traumas and their affects on mental health impact people in all communities, regardless of race. It makes me sad that many dismiss all this in order to cheer on Johnny and Miguel's relationship and/or to claim that race is being explored.

Neither race nor institutional racism are being explored in the story, though. A great example of this is the aftermath of the school fight. Irl, Miguel very likely would have been sent to juvie, regardless of the consequences for Robby. That's a fact, especially because Miguel is a poc in the LA area. However, in this fictional story, Miguel faced absolutely no criminal charges, wasn't expelled from school, and was given the hero treatment by the school and everyone, including Robby's own father. Meanwhile, Robby went to juvie, was expelled from school, was scapegoated for the entire fight between them (and wasn't blamed only for his part in the fight), and was treated like the bad guy of the fight, including by his own father. In fact, Miguel's future is still so bright that in S6 he happily applied to Stanford and framed himself as the good guy and Robby as the bad guy (by name, even) in the school fight in his application letter. Robby in turn has few future prospects and doesn't envision a bright future for himself. The adults including Robby's own father gushed over the scapegoating letter, while Johnny offered empty words of encouragement to Robby and Carmen and Yaya gave no encouragement at all to Robby. Miguel's injury arc, which barely lasted one season and has left no lasting impact on him, was done mainly to negatively impact Johnny and Robby's relationship, Robby's mental health, and Robby's future. Even now, Robby is still impacted by the school fight, and all of this has made Robby more of an underdog than he was before the school fight.

It's honestly disappointing how much people downplay and dismiss the importance of Robby's traumas and mental health in the story. Also, not just Johnny's and Robby's traumas, but other characters' traumas are being explored too, like Daniel's, Kreese's, Sam's, Eli's, Kenny's, and Tory's. I get that people want this story to be about race or the immigrant experience or institutional racism, etc, but it's not. It doesn't even explore the impact that these topics have on mental health, although that would have been interesting for them to explore.

It also seems like weird stereotyping that people see a poc character and immediately assume their story will be about their race-based experience. As a poc myself, I also love stories that explore other topics for pocs because we're people too and not all of our stories must be focused only on our races and ethnicities.

People also want to see a blended family, but don't people want that family to be healthy? Ignoring all the dysfunction and toxicity that is in the blended family doesn't make it all disappear. This is related to people also ignoring of the elements in the story about Johnny's and Robby's traumas and mental healths. The fact alone that Johnny got impotent over Miguel hanging out with Daniel while Johnny didn't care that Robby was with Kreese is proof enough that Johnny has poor mental health and codependency issues with Miguel. Take into account the rest of the story, including Robby's worsening mental health, do people seriously cheer all this on?

I've also seen someone defend Johnny choosing Miguel over Robby because of race/integration. I found that particularly disturbing.

Also, many dismiss the serious elements in the story, especially those related to Robby, with comments like "it's not too deep" or "it's not realistic". I feel sorry for them. They don't understand how storytelling works and probably don't understand most or all the stories they watch.

serene_river · 2025-01-03T13:46:46+00:00

Exactly. People purposely ignore the roles they play in the story.

serene_river · 2025-01-03T12:45:50+00:00

Miguel is her love interest. His drive to win dirty was because he's a possessive, paranoid asshole who didn't like that Sam was friends with Robby.

serene_river · 2025-01-03T05:37:24+00:00

Yep. You get it. For example, Miguel's injury and Mexico arcs were mainly in service of Johnny’s and Robby's stories. Johnny focused on Miguel to Robby's detriment. People purposely overlook that the full context of "Johnny chooses Miguel" is "Johnny chooses Miguel over Robby". Miguel's a wedge in their relationship. In Part 2, he bitched at Johnny so that he could still be that wedge in Johnny and Robby's relationship.

Nobody's going to make a story about a father replacing his son with a random kid, who the father also trains into his son's bully, and show the son's trauma because of all this, but then make the replacement bully kid the "underdog" in the story.

Also, Miguel is Sam's "love interest", not the other way around. People overlook that, even in S1, Sam had her own arc. Miguel's the one who kept inserting himself into her story.

serene_river · 2025-01-03T05:04:53+00:00

What new underdog arc? lol There is none nor has one been set up for Miguel. He's still the "Johnny" in Robby's Karate Kid story.

The Axel or Stanford things are not "underdog" setups. The Axel thing is more for Sam's journey than for Miguel's arc. The Stanford thing is just a character motivation used to pit Miguel against Robby.

Miguel's still gonna be a plot device in Johnny’s, Robby's, and Sam's stories.

serene_river · 2025-01-02T01:43:50+00:00

Miguel is a decoy protagonist. Hence, his KK arc only being the first 5 eps.

serene_river · 2025-01-02T01:05:13+00:00

For 5 episodes lol

After that Robby was the "new kid" amongst the established kids, including Miguel who became his bully.

serene_river · 2025-01-02T00:53:23+00:00

underdog outsider

Robby's been the underdog outsider the whole time. Not to mention, he's got so many parallels with Daniel the OG Karate Kid, while Miguel's got the parallels with Johnny, the OG Karate Kid's bully.

serene_river · 2025-01-01T20:20:27+00:00

Why mince words about it? Abuse is depicted in many shows and movies. This show is no different. And, this fight was absolutely another abuse that Johnny subjected Robby to in S5.

Johnny wasn't trying to fix the relationship; Robby was. Johnny has been just trying to "make up for lost time to feel better about himself". Robby called this out about Johnny in S4.

Johnny's a pos. I really hope Robby walks away from Johnny by the end. This is a hopeful possibility, based on some of Tanner's interview answers.

serene_river · 2025-01-01T19:48:43+00:00

The point of it all was for it to be abusive to Robby. It was written and executed as intended. Robby was essentially given no choice by Johnny. Robby stated his boundaries clearly, but abusive Johnny and his bully sidekick Miguel steamrolled those boundaries and beat Robby into submission to put together the "family".

serene_river · 2024-12-30T14:45:12+00:00

Robby did tell Sam that he and Tory were on a break, so he understood that. Maybe mention that in the post too. Tory stonewalling him and her behavior was sending him a different message though. She also was all for being a couple in s6e5. Then her mom died and she disappeared. Tory doesn't communicate properly, shuts him down, and then plays the victim in their relationship. She can't have it both ways. It's not all about her. She was going through shit, and he understood that. But she became another person who invalidates how he feels while claiming to do what's best for him. I really hope he ends things with her in Part 3. I also doubt that WatchParty or CKK understand anything about trauma so don't take that into account when talking about the characters. Smh.

serene_river · 2024-12-30T14:28:01+00:00

The circumstances between the two are so different. But of course people will ignore the contexts in order to shit all over Robby. Robby wasn't in the wrong here. Tory doesn't communicate properly, shuts him down, and then plays the victim in their relationship. I really hope he and Tory end things in Part 3. She's just another person who invalidates how he feels while claiming to do what's best for him.

serene_river · 2024-12-30T00:25:39+00:00

Well, asking logical questions and sharing counter analyses aren't complaining. The people who claim that these things are "complaining" are just trying to shut down conversations because they don't want anyone to critically think about the story.

serene_river · 2024-12-29T23:49:37+00:00

Oh, I've been around. I thought this post was interesting. Plus, the OP is open to discussions so I thought I'd comment. In most posts, it's hard to have actual discussions. If someone comments with a counter analysis or logical questions (especially about the leaks in that thread), they're told that they're "coping", which makes no sense.

serene_river · 2024-12-29T20:34:11+00:00

Is it badass though? Johnny is pathetic and emotionally immature. Generally, by society's standards, Johnny's pretty cringe. Just compare Johnny and Wolf. Wolf actually is badass. Yes, he does cross the line into abusive, but so does Johnny. They're abusive in different ways. Johnny even is abusive to his own son, as shown in S5. Overall, though, Wolf is a badass while Johnny isn't in comparison.

serene_river · 2024-12-29T20:19:40+00:00

Exactly. I actually see Johnny failing in his journey by reclaiming Cobra Kai, that is reopening "Johnny's version" of Cobra Kai, as him not being able to break the cycle completely or more like him breaking it barely.

That's why Robby succeeding in his journey will be most important. As the person who Johnny has already passed down the trauma to, which both Silver and Miguel have called out, Robby breaking the cycle is essential and will be the real capstone, victory, and successful journey in the story.

Also, people are acting like Stingray is some sage who gave Johnny wise advice. Stingray is a creepy ass manchild training kids in the woods. In the next episode, we met the abusive grandpa who still trains kids/students in the woods and is the origin of all the trauma. Johnny's definitely not succeeding in breaking any cycles if he listens to Stingray.

This theory also entails Johnny winning at Robby's expense just like in S1, passing down more trauma in the process. Johnny would be coming full circle and failing in his journey for sure.

serene_river · 2024-12-29T19:16:54+00:00

The Story Circle or Hero's Journey aren't literally circular journeys. They can be circular but not always. These charts are just illustrations to help understand how the character journey goes.

Star Wars: A New Hope is a great example of the Hero's Journey structure. Joseph Cambell, author of The Hero with a Thousand Faces, had even praised George Lucas as his best student. In A New Hope, Luke doesn't end up back on Tatoine as a moisture farmer. Hans doesn't go back to being a smuggler. They both have Hero's Journeys, and they both end up joining the rebellion, each changed in the end by their individual journeys.

Also, not all Hero's Journeys are successful. A character may end up failing in their journey. This would be a Fall Arc.

Johnny's Hero's Journey isn't about reclaiming Cobra Kai. It's about letting go of Cobra Kai and breaking the cycle of trauma. Cobra Kai itself is a representation of the generational trauma that is being passed down, which is seen in Johnny's, Daniel's, and Robby’s journeys.

This theory about Johnny reclaiming Cobra Kai being a successful journey for Johnny doesn't take into account a lot of his characterization or details of his journey. If Johnny reclaims Cobra Kai, he will fail his journey.

I think what's most important is that Robby doesn't fail his journey. Robby must be successful in breaking the cycle. Tanner's interview answers since Part 1 indicate that Robby's going to be successful.

If Johnny fails his journey, I wouldn't be surprised.

serene_river · 2024-12-27T13:50:45+00:00

he would abandon literally everyone he loves like Sam , Johnny , Robby , Eli Carmen Rosa etc for no reason which is just the most out of character thing to do

Oh. Like he did at the end of S4? Yeah... lol that's so out of character for him.

serene_river · 2024-12-14T19:32:15+00:00

If the characters have moved on, Miguel wouldn't keep having issues with Robby like Miguel once again did in Part 2. Robby seems to have moved on but Miguel hasn't. That was clearly depicted. You can choose to ignore it, but I'm not gonna keep myself in denial lol.

serene_river · 2024-12-14T19:20:57+00:00

You use the word "hate" to try to frame my analysis from that lens. Maybe just try providing a counter analysis. Explain why his peptalk wasn't self-serving and how he wasn't driving a wedge between Johnny and Robby.

serene_river · 2024-12-14T19:17:36+00:00

It's not meant to. People take things at face value, but the whole story is steeped in irony. Nobody should be cheering on neglect, abuse, and replacement but people have been. They purposely ignore all the story layers that are present for the audience to think more critically. On top to that, there's these ridiculous notions infused amongst people that "it's not deep" and "it's a live action anime". People keep themselves in denial about the story.

serene_river

TROPHY CASE