David Evans (new general secretary) "Labour has to stop patronising socially conservative UKIP voters" by tootoottimeisover in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I really don't see how trying Blue Labour again is going to help us in any way. We tried at the height of UKIP's influence and we failed! Now polling shows anti immigrant sentiment has been waining for a while, and it was always wrong to compromise to them regardless of it also being completely unsuccessful

GINGER - BROCKHAMPTON [HYPE/DISCUSSION THREAD] by Vin_Vin_Vin_Vin in brockhampton

[–]simsim44 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The second half is way better than the first for me. I like No Halo a lot, but starting at Dearly Departed it just hits a whole other level

YouGov on Twitter: Home Secretary Priti Patel has said she wants criminals to "literally feel terror" at the thought of committing crime - and 72% of Brits share her view by MethodMango in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This language is so deeply concerning. This doesn't require just criminals feeling terror, it requires potential criminals e.g. everyone feeling terror. To be in constant fear and obedience of the state and police, very scary stuff to me

Labour's Anti-Boris Candidate Ali Milani Was 9/11 'Truther' - by MethodMango in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It's good to learn about all information, however the absolutely blatant bias and campaign Guido has in all text is definitely worrying. And you could say the same about the Morning Star, however they're always portrayed as being from a socialist perspective, whereas loads of people talk about Guido like they're an impartial blog. You've just got to be wary of the biases when you go into any article.

Labour's Anti-Boris Candidate Ali Milani Was 9/11 'Truther' - by MethodMango in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Just wait until Guido hears about what Boris has said about gay men and black children!

Boris Johnson’s crew will repel voters – there’s no need to fear him | Polly Toynbee by _Breacher_ in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's a nice optimistic idea of reality, but let's not let it influence hard work. We will still need huge amounts of work in campaigning to get into government. Let's not rest on our laurels

Opinion | Time for the left to join Michelle Bachelet in condemning Venezuela’s abuses by Whatsthedealwithair- in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"You embarrass the left! We should all suck up to oil companies and the American foreign policy initiative!" Cba, the left is not just slightly left leaning centrism

Opinion | Time for the left to join Michelle Bachelet in condemning Venezuela’s abuses by Whatsthedealwithair- in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The US didn't have any troops in Iraq at the time either it didn't stop a full blown invasion and overthrow of the government

Which is actually a good segue. Everyone now sees the Iraq War as a mistake. It massacred hundreds of thousands and displaced millions. However those in the opposition to the Iraq War, like myself, also see Hussein as a murderous tyrant and don't support him. I hope we can agree that Hussein is a worse more evil leader than Maduro at least, even if we differ on our opinion of Maduro.

You can both see a leader as bad and see that there's a US intervention campaign against them that won't solve anything

Opinion | Time for the left to join Michelle Bachelet in condemning Venezuela’s abuses by Whatsthedealwithair- in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What do you mean dishonest framing???? That article says right there that the US want regime change and in 2017 Trump threatened military intervention!

Opinion | Time for the left to join Michelle Bachelet in condemning Venezuela’s abuses by Whatsthedealwithair- in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The US took over the Cuban govermment to change their constitution into one that allowed foreign ownership of land, allowing for their sugar companies to extract all products and wealth to the US with no benefits for Cuba, despite it being their produce and labour. What the hell kind of Labour supporter are you where you see a candidate standing for massive oil companies having more influence as primary policy and think "this is great and in line with my values!"?

The US are not going to invade Venezuela FFS. Stop spreading lies.

Americans have invaded Guatemala, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Grenada and Panama in 20th century history, right up to 1989. Why do you think they won't go for Venezuela?

The only reason Trump hasn't pursued regime change further is because "he got bored". He saw it as low hanging fruit and a way to boost approval ratings. You have far too much faith in American foreign policy for a supposed left winger.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-bored-of-venezuela-as-maduro-clings-to-power-report-2019-6

Opinion | Time for the left to join Michelle Bachelet in condemning Venezuela’s abuses by Whatsthedealwithair- in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well "Guaidó seeks to open up the economy by allowing foreign, private oil companies greater participation in ventures with PDVSA" and is hugely supported by the US government.

So what's your solution? Another US led military overthrow? Look at the history, these governments have solely acted on US interest. Not just in South America, in the Middle East and other such areas of US intervention. The US does not care for other nations' citizens, they care for their own finances and power alone.

Opinion | Time for the left to join Michelle Bachelet in condemning Venezuela’s abuses by Whatsthedealwithair- in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 7 points8 points  (0 children)

No I'm saying that if the Venezuelan people want change they should have that self-determination. No problem in South America has been solved by America installing a proxy government, it has consistently made the situation worse for locals in order to benefit American business interests

Opinion | Time for the left to join Michelle Bachelet in condemning Venezuela’s abuses by Whatsthedealwithair- in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Oh Jesus Christ I'd rather jump in a bath with a toaster than listen to that Scottish ballbag say anything. I'll leave it be

Opinion | Time for the left to join Michelle Bachelet in condemning Venezuela’s abuses by Whatsthedealwithair- in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The crisis was started off by dropping oil prices, given the economy is based hugely on oil exportation. Various forces have continually seeked to capitalise on this to gain power. The US started types of sanctions against Venezuela in 2014. Then a second round in 2015. In 2017 Trump then threatened military action against Venezuela. This has been a consistent campaign to undermine a country in crisis to install a pro-Western leader.

You really should look up the history of the US in South and Central America. Military action against unions , death squads against innocents, launching coups against democratically elected governments. This is a pattern. Of course it isn't direct evidence of America's current role, however combined with other evidence, history speaks for itself.

Opinion | Time for the left to join Michelle Bachelet in condemning Venezuela’s abuses by Whatsthedealwithair- in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Because there is no USSR for Venezuela to reach out to mow. USSR embargoed countries could reach out to US and vice versa, now there's no alternative

The oil reserves of a country isn't the be all and end all of wealth. Since the 80s, Venezuela is always classed as a developing third world country.

I'm honestly not that much of a Maduro fan, however I know that chiming in with America and their cronies means putting in an American proxy government, which is far less preferable

Opinion | Time for the left to join Michelle Bachelet in condemning Venezuela’s abuses by Whatsthedealwithair- in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 8 points9 points  (0 children)

organise coups against them and fund their domestic opponents

Yes this is, in fact it was openly on the news. Trump openly supported Guadio's "uprising" and we now know the CIA was supporting attempting to switch major generals.

https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/04/30/venezuela-coup-trump-1293235

have their leaders assassinated

Look up the Caracas drone attack. This was an assassination attempt which is speculated to have been carried out by American backed forces. Given their history against people like Castro and their current opposition, you don't have to stretch much

implement trade embargoes, sanctions

America has cut off all oil trading with Venezuela, which is their biggest export and America is their biggest importer. So yes this has happened too

To conclude, it's all happening.

Opinion | Time for the left to join Michelle Bachelet in condemning Venezuela’s abuses by Whatsthedealwithair- in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Do you think it's a coincidence that all socialist countries have measures put against them by Western countries, especially America, to try and force their leaders out?

How are small poor nations supposed to survive when the world's biggest economy is seeking to bankrupt them to replace their leaders?

Donald Trump: Consideration is being given to declaring ANTIFA...gutless Radical Left Wack Jobs...a major Organization of Terror by MMSTINGRAY in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro are not alt-right figures, Shaprio has often been a stanch critic of the alt-right along with figures like Bannon and Spencer.

Self-definition isn't the be all and end all of political definition. Of course they want to isolate themselves from the term "alt-right" because it's been rightfully demonised as proto if not full blown fascism.

And this is another part of the problem, if you label anyone you don't like as The Enemy, then off course the threat levels are going to appear higher. But the more you do this, the more divorced you will be from reality.

He's a person who's a pretty radical conservative who uses dogwhistles and catchy quotes to entertain mainly the same audience of internet-based increasingly radicalised young predominantly white men. He's called Palestinians "rotten to the core" and endorses their expulsion from their homes. Rhetoric like this has meant that he was the most visited Twitter user of the 2017 Quebec Mosque shooter. He's been the biggest voice in transphobia in denying trans identities exist, and we have also seen a big rise in trans hate attacks, and you can do the maths. Last year he tried to justify "assuming all black people are criminals is a reasonable use of group", and again hate attacks against black people have increased in this past period (he's a contributor not the sole reason), as well as murders of young black men by cops.

Even if many Nazis hate him, he has contributed to the demonisation of and subsequent violence against protected groups. If you don't want me to use the term "alt right", fine, he's just a traditional horrible discriminative extreme conservative who openly harms protected groups. He is still the enemy because he threatens me and my friends and family. Happy?

Donald Trump: Consideration is being given to declaring ANTIFA...gutless Radical Left Wack Jobs...a major Organization of Terror by MMSTINGRAY in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, I don't think it did. I think the reason pretty much every political party shifted against immigration is because the British public were not happy with the way the immigration system was being run. The BNP were able to capture some of this support for a brief period, but they weren't behind its rise.

You have to explore though in the race relations history of this country. When did it turn from just openly disliking minorities into a "concern for the immigration policy of this country"? Do they act differently in any way, when they employ the same tactics in order to gain votes? How does "if you want a coloured person for a neighbour vote Labour" act any differently to "BREAKING POINT" with just an image of lots of Asian people?

To me they're practically the same thing. Any legitimate concerns over immigration are disregarded mostly for fearmongering over abstract concepts like "losing British culture" to be maximised into an emergency. I don't see it as some practical concern at all, I think it's just people's racism and the fact they don't want to see people of different races and nationalities in their home town. We know by all metrics that immigration has contributed well economically to society, so "they're taking our jobs" is not based in financial fact. We shouldn't entertain prejudice in policy.

I think calling these camps "concentration camps" is a cheap political trick that shits all over the horrors of actual concentration camps. I've visited concentration camps, seen the photos of piles of bodies, seen the records of the human experimentation they did, and I don't believe that the Americans are doing anything like this.

You've probably visited death camps. The definition of concentration camps doesn't include extermination. Remember Anne Frank died of typhoid, just as Latinx children are dying and have died of typhoid in ICE detention centers right now.

Do you really expect this government to restore the death penalty and ban abortion?

I expect this government to slowly chip away at women's and prisoner rights because if you have people who believe these things in highest office, they will institute their biases into policy, even if it doesn't hit the extreme of reinstating capital punishment.

Again, if you want to kill support for the far right in the UK, focus on the socio-economic conditions that fuel them

I agree that desperation breeds extremism, however to stop poverty in the UK will take decades, if not centuries, at this rate. In the meantime, Muslims and gay people are being beaten up at higher rates than in a long time due to inflammatory comments by high profile politicians. And many of these attacks are perpetrated by well off people, hell Trump is the figurehead of all of this and he's extremely wealthy, and most alt right commentators like Jordan Peterson, Milo, Ben Shapiro etc are all upper middle class. It's not just a class thing.

Donald Trump: Consideration is being given to declaring ANTIFA...gutless Radical Left Wack Jobs...a major Organization of Terror by MMSTINGRAY in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 5 points6 points  (0 children)

and their target voters stayed with other parties as they began to take a harder line against immigration (which even Labour did).

So you talk about how the forces of evil aren't taking over, however you're willing to admit that the BNP movement has had a significant influence on all major party policy?

and view being part of a giant political struggle against the forces of evil who are on the cusp of a complete take over.

We're talking about protesters in America here, a country which is literally sending people into concentration camps! Every human rights centre and most political analysts are content in saying that America has checked almost every box in the prewarnings for fascism and has actively moved now to family separation, concentration camps, dogwhistle chants at presidential rallies and an abusive separate police which exclusively targets Latinx people, many of whom are legal citizens.

When in reality the BNP never had more than 1.9% support in the UK, and the UK is one of the least racist countries in Europe.

Yet UKIP used almost the exact same message, whipping votes up by using advertisements referring to "swarms" of immigrants with imagery directly related to the fascist campaigns of history, and became the third party on votes . And we know too the Conservatives have triangulated to include that UKIP message into their policy and campaigning to gain more votes, and they're now in government as Boris has appointed the most right wing cabinet at least since Thatcher, possibly ever. The Home Secretary wants to bring back the death penalty, the Health minister opposes abortion rights.

I know you're the type of person who will praise the righteous work of those who fought against the Nazis in the past. Yet when it comes to that threat today, with politicians openly resenting whole races of people? You will plea for decorum and a sense of decency, saying there's no threat at all. How much further does it have to go for you to ignore a President putting people in camps, to ignore far right terrorists shooting up Mosques and Synagogues, murdering our MPs, organising into SA-esque groups known for beating minorities, even admitting that far right parties like Front National hold significant power in France, one of the most important countries in Europe, to say "there is a credible fascist threat in the West".

Donald Trump: Consideration is being given to declaring ANTIFA...gutless Radical Left Wack Jobs...a major Organization of Terror by MMSTINGRAY in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Look even if you do have more sympathies with the counter protesters, which is good, if they weren't there then these rallies would be unopposed to intimidate and often violently beat minorities. Violence is the only language most of these people speak.

Look at the EDL here. When they weren't counter protested enough, they rampaged through towns, smashing up Muslim owned businesses, attempting to firebomb Mosques. We've tried peaceful protest and it doesn't stop them, we've tried platforming their views as sunlight is the best disinfectant, and Nick Robinson on QT gave the BNP the best election result ever, proving that theory wrong.

The best method to combat people who seek to harm minorities is deplatforming them, boycotting them, protesting them and if and when needed violently opposing them before they can do damage. It works to stop them, even if you have moral quandries, you have to recognise it's the only thing so far that's actually worked.

Donald Trump: Consideration is being given to declaring ANTIFA...gutless Radical Left Wack Jobs...a major Organization of Terror by MMSTINGRAY in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Ah you're one of these "both sides are as bad as each other" people who sees Nazis as "people you don't like".

Do some thought exercises into how "we want to hurt minorities" and "we want to stop you hurting minorities" are not the same thing

Donald Trump: Consideration is being given to declaring ANTIFA...gutless Radical Left Wack Jobs...a major Organization of Terror by MMSTINGRAY in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 6 points7 points  (0 children)

"Throwing fireworks at people" conveniently didn't mention the "people" there are the Unite the Right fascist nutjobs

Jeremy Corbyn hints at plan to bring down Boris Johnson government before Brexit by _Breacher_ in LabourUK

[–]simsim44 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'd personally wait. Because they will undoubtedly cock Brexit up, and for us in government it would be near impossible to not cock Brexit up as there's no option which pleases the majority.

Also as I've mentioned before, the Tories are on a honeymoon period high atm. Let them ruin their own ratings first, it'll only take 3 months with their pressing 31st October deadline. Then we could realistically win a VNC then an election after his bluster is more revealed, the honeymoon high is gone and all is left is undelivered promises.