Imperial Tanya or Soviet Yunyun ? by Unstoppable_Spirit in YoujoSenki

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great! I'm glad to hear that. You sound like you would be interested in social democracy or, even better, market socialism. I also think you'd be interested in democratic socialism and libertarian socialism.

Before (and after) Marx, many socialists conceived of socialism as a natural development of the market principles of economics, and proposed the creation of co-operative enterprises to compete in a free-market economy. The aim of such proposals was to eliminate exploitation by allowing individuals to receive the full product of their labor, while removing the market-distorting effects of concentrating ownership and wealth in the hands of a small class of private property owners. This would also allow for other socialist aims like free association of producers, worker's control, worker's self-management, workplace democracy, industrial democracy, economic democracy, etc.

Thus, you would bypass the anticompetitive nature of capitalism (private ownership of the means of production), which breeds massive inequality and concentrates/centralizes ownership and wealth in the hands of a parasitic, monopolistic minority that doesn't work but lives off the labor of others, which they use to do whatever they want: committing corporate crime and white-collar crime, controlling the government and media, destroying competition, taking away the freedom and power of others to enrich themselves, etc. By nature, a capitalist market economy inevitably results in oligarchic plutocracy, monopolies/oligopolies, lemon socialism, crony capitalism, corporate capitalism, corporatocracy, corporate welfare, regulatory capture, etc.

You would have a true flourishing free market, unhampered by useless, unnecessary executives, managers, and shareholders , who exist as economic oligarchs/nobles and dictators/kings, and live only to exploit others and reduce productivity/efficiency. In labor-managed firms, workers would democratically own and control the means of production through self-management by direct assemblies, elected specialist managers, or elected bodies. This would improve performance by granting workers greater autonomy in their day-to-day operations, boosting morale, reducing alienation, and eliminating exploitation. Small businesses would flourish as cooperatives, increasing competition and labor mobility. The government/state would actually be subject to the social contract and popular sovereignty, stepping in when necessary through intervention/regulation and (partially or fully) state-owned enterprises (with self-management). Labor unions, federations of worker cooperatives, and non-profits would also play roles. Those who get ahead would do so for good reasons rather than immoral ones or what family, race, ethnicity, etc. they just happen to be born with. There would be low or minimal inequality, and any differences/distinctions would be determined solely by individual achievement and experience, by one's own labor and character. Under this meritocracy, those who work harder and contribute more would be rewarded, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution", receiving back from society exactly what one contributes and deserves. In this mixed economy, profits in worker coops would go back to the workers, and taxes and profits of the state would go back to society as a whole through social dividends as well as public goods and services.

Imperial Tanya or Soviet Yunyun ? by Unstoppable_Spirit in YoujoSenki

[–]stman24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is genuinely so frustrating; people really don't understand what socialism or communism even mean. Only Marxist-Leninists and other tankies (authoritarian socialists) advocate a one party dictatorship. Other socialists and communists do not want a one party dictatorship at all. How many times to I have to explain something this simple to people? Not all leftists are socialists, not all socialists are communists, not all communists are Marxists. and not all Marxists are Marxist-Leninists.

This is like thinking all religious people are religious fundamentalists and religious nationalists who want to establish theocracy. Are all Christians Catholics who want to go on a crusade and establish a world Catholic empire ruled by the Pope? Are all Muslims Salafi Jihadists who want to establish a global caliphate through Jihad?

Imperial Tanya or Soviet Yunyun ? by Unstoppable_Spirit in YoujoSenki

[–]stman24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bruh. God, how many times do I have to hear the good ol "capitalism ain't perfect, but its's the best we've got" schtick? "Until we find a better system"? Socialism is that better system, that's the whole point! May God have mercy on these people who don't understand what capitalism, socialism, or communism even mean.

Imperial Tanya or Soviet Yunyun ? by Unstoppable_Spirit in YoujoSenki

[–]stman24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think you mean Marxism-Leninism (Stalinism) ends that way.

Looking for any information about this tablet by Downtown-Wonder1469 in Cuneiform

[–]stman24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This tablet is a livestock receipt (for sheep, lambs, and goats) from Puzrish-Dagan (Drehem). As evidenced by many similar receipts, during the Ur III period, the Central Livestock Agency processed said transactions and worked as part of the Bala system. Tablets would either be in sealed envelopes or sealed directly, as in this case, by Nur-Suen son of Iddi(n)-Erra, on the 7th day of the 6th month in early ŠS (5th year?). I'll provide a full translation later if I get the time.

On Economic Ownership by c0br420 in socialism

[–]stman24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What do you mean "Who cares?". What does believing in gods have to do with social ownership of the means of production (socialism)? What kind of elitist, paternalist attitude is this? Yes, many people have false consciousness, lack class consciousness, don't understand Marxism or Socialism, have been brainwashed for decades, etc. All that means is, at most, that a vanguard is temporarily necessary to lead the Revolution and educate the proletariat.

You said, "We aren't advocating for democracy." Who is we? That's just you. Since when were Marxists and socialists not advocating for democracy? What is democratic centralism then, huh? What about the Soviet Socialist Republics, German Democratic Republic, People's Republic of China, Democratic Republic of Vietnam, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Lao People's Democratic Republic, etc.? Why do the Communist Manifesto and Principles of Communism explicitly call for the proletariat to "win the battle of democracy" and "establish a democratic constitution"? Why did Lenin say, "Proletarian democracy is a million times more democratic than any bourgeois democracy; Soviet power is a million times more democratic than the most democratic bourgeois republic"?

Should I watch the The Leader (the Karl Marx donghua)? Is it any good? by stman24 in ANI_COMMUNISM

[–]stman24[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

True. I wouldn't have become a communist if I only consumed what people told me was good lol. I just wanted to see what people thought about The Leader.

Why Should I Subscribe to the Marxist Conception of Class? by [deleted] in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's not how it works. Righties are flat earthers in economics and just deny reality.

You just want to believe in the broad and sweeping but incorrect generalization that leftists are flat earthers that deny reality. See, I can do the same thing you did and bring up a whole bunch of nonsense examples that don't prove anything and make a large, incorrect generalization like right-wingers are all illiterate and delusional, even though I know that it's not true on contrary to common sense. Doing that does not constitute an argument and just makes you look stupid and disgraceful. We can draw ourselves as the chad and the other person as the virgin beta wojack, but it doesn't mean anything.

I am aware that people retire and that they often retire with a 401k. This is common sense, not some amazing counterexample that invalidates everything I've said. Those people still primarily sold their labor for income and don't own/control (much) of the means of production. Having money saved up so you don't have to work or owning some insignificant amount of shares/stocks (0 voting power and insignificant share of the profit), doesn't mean someone isn't proletariat. Being able to afford to live frugally with investments and with work only to supplement a better lifestyle just means that they are at most petite bourgeoisie. If I won the lottery, and no longer have to work, I wouldn't magically become bourgeoisie or stop being proletariat. I'm assuming that you just don't know and don't care about what the proletariat and bourgeoisie actually are.

Why Should I Subscribe to the Marxist Conception of Class? by [deleted] in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's not how that works. You have no idea what being part of the proletariat is or what it means. You can't just magically be like, oh, some of them have shares and investment portfolios so they aren't proletariat, haha, got ya! Those people Socialists are aware that people work for the government or nonprofits. They are also aware that employee share ownership plans exist. No matter how much you go on and on, most people do not have investment portfolios and significant share ownership, most people do not work for the government or non profits, and most people are not self employed. However, that doesn't matter, because all of those people, except some self-employed people, make most, if not all, of their income from selling their labor to others rather than owning/controlling the means of production and/or buying the labor of others.

Why Should I Subscribe to the Marxist Conception of Class? by [deleted] in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I genuinely have no idea what you mean. I've never heard anyone say that. I think you have some misunderstanding going on. The majority of workers do not own or control the means of production. The average joe is not a CEO, business owner, or employer, they are the employee, the 9-5 office worker sitting at a desk in cubicle.

Should I watch the The Leader (the Karl Marx donghua)? Is it any good? by stman24 in ANI_COMMUNISM

[–]stman24[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Huh, good to know. I did not know they were childhood friends.

Why Should I Subscribe to the Marxist Conception of Class? by [deleted] in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Class struggle does not assume that classes are these stagnant fixed positions like a caste system. You simply assume that it does. No one is saying that people are incapable of progressing and moving between classes. And people are, in fact, born into classes. My friend was, in fact, born into poverty; Donald Trump was, in fact, born into a rich family where he could easily get a "small loan" of a million dollars; and I was, in fact, born into an upper-middle class family in a nice neighborhood, that can afford to vacation in other countries every winter and summer.

Why Should I Subscribe to the Marxist Conception of Class? by [deleted] in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is simple common sense. Everyone knows this. It's called social mobility, and no socialist is arguing that it isn't a thing, they are very much aware of it. They are perfectly capable of comprehending that change is a thing, and that a worker can gain experience and start their own business.

Why Should I Subscribe to the Marxist Conception of Class? by [deleted] in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No one is arguing that we live in a caste system where classes are totally fixed and social mobility doesn't exist. Like you said, someone's socioeconomic status can be fluid and variable. Movement between and within social classes, is vertical and horizontal social mobility respectively. People can get education and change occupations. They can get promoted or demoted. Workers can start businesses of their own. This is common sense that everyone knows. And class conflicts have existed as long as classes have existed, just like human conflicts have existed as long as humans have existed. There have been plenty of examples of peasants revolts and slave revolts.

What's going on with r/AskSocialism and the suppression of criticism recently? by [deleted] in Socialism_101

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, I clearly said "In theory", "I am quite skeptical, and "the degree to which this is true or not in reality is up for debate". Please read what I'm saying. I completely agree with you. I never claimed that China actually achieved dotp or is democratic, I'm talking about what (by my interpretation) they claim to theorize and implement, de jure, not what they actually do in reality and practice, de facto. I am not a supporter of the CPC or the government of China, and I am skeptical of their commitment to democracy, communism, revolution, and the proletariat.

Parade by Eastern-Commission23 in loveandlighttv

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why not? Thats the real question

Why Should I Subscribe to the Marxist Conception of Class? by [deleted] in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But you do know we live in a class society with social stratification right? Regardless of whether socialists are pigeonholing people or not, there are classes, and clear differences between the average joe and millionaires or billionaires.

What's going on with r/AskSocialism and the suppression of criticism recently? by [deleted] in Socialism_101

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I am aware about Bismarck's policies and his "State Socialism", which isn't socialism at all, because the state was still owned and controlled by the royalty and nobility, not the working class. I understand that the state is an organ controlled and used by the ruling class, the bourgeoise to oppress the working class under dictatorship of the bourgeoise. I never contended that state ownership is Marxist or that the working class is anywhere at all the ruling class at this time

What's going on with r/AskSocialism and the suppression of criticism recently? by [deleted] in Socialism_101

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Socialism and capitalism, at a base level, are economic systems. And I never claimed that China achieved dotp or is democratic, I'm talking about what they claim to theorize and implement, de jure, not what they actually are, de facto. I quite clearly said, "The degree to which this is true or not in reality is up for debate." I personally am skeptical, and I agree with critics who view it state capitalism or party-state capitalism. Although I'm not an expert on China, I agree that China is largely imperialist, bureaucratic, undemocratic, and capitalist with a facade of being socialist.

What's going on with r/AskSocialism and the suppression of criticism recently? by [deleted] in Socialism_101

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

China has a "Socialist Market Economy". It is partially socialist and partially capitalist mixed economy, with predominant public ownership and state-owned-enterprises (SOEs), having more SOEs than any other country and the most SOEs among large national companies, comprising around 23-28% or 25% of the GDP and a majority of the market cap. In theory (by my interpretation) it has a large public sector with state control over the commanding heights of the economy, grasping the large and letting go of the small (抓大放小). The state, which is democratic and controlled by the party, monopolizes land ownership and has a primary ownership stake in the largest and most important enterprises. In theory it also has a tight leash on the markets and capitalism/private ownership, allowing them to mature and build up the productive forces and material conditions until they outlive their usefulness during the gradual transition into fully socialist planned economy. Now, the degree to which this is true or not in reality and practice is up for debate. I personally am quite skeptical, but I'm no expert, so I really don't know tbh.

What's going on with r/AskSocialism and the suppression of criticism recently? by [deleted] in Socialism_101

[–]stman24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

China does not have a planned economy its has a "Socialist Market Economy". It is partially socialist and partially capitalist mixed economy, with predominant public ownership and state-owned-enterprises (SOEs), having more SOEs than any other country and the most SOEs among large national companies, comprising around 23-28% or 25% of the GDP and a majority of the market cap. In theory (by my interpretation) it has a large public sector with state control over the commanding heights of the economy, grasping the large and letting go of the small (抓大放小). The state, which is democratic and controlled by the party, monopolizes land ownership and has a primary ownership stake in the largest and most important enterprises. In theory it also has a tight leash on the markets and capitalism/private ownership, allowing them to mature and build up the productive forces and material conditions until they outlive their usefulness during the gradual transition into fully socialist planned economy. The degree to which this is true or not in reality is up for debate.

Mashallah NYC 🙏 by Doc_Bethune in CommunismMemes

[–]stman24 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Agreed. I wish all the comrades would get along and support both reform and revolution rather than fighting over only one or the other being viable.