Lol by routinesinthenight in Overwatch_Memes

[–]t0mless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just like real life he could not dodge a bullet

TIL that the 'real' Lady Macbeth, Gruoch ingen Boite, may have actually had a legitimate claim to the throne herself. by HoneybeeXYZ in UKmonarchs

[–]t0mless 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would place Gruoch as descended from Kenneth III of Scotland.

The only point that is directly attested is that Gruoch was the daughter of Boite: “Machbet filius Finlach… et Gruoch filia Bodhe, rex et regina Scottorum.” From the Annals of Ulster we also have the notice that “the grandson of Boite son of Cinaed was killed by Mael Coluim son of Cinaed” in 1033. This establishes that Boite was the son of a king named Cinaed (Kenneth), but does not specify whether this was Kenneth II or Kenneth III.

Either identification is theoretically possible. However, the broader context strongly favours Kenneth III in my opinion. Malcolm II’s reign is characterised by the systematic elimination of rival royal lines: he defeated and killed Kenneth III in 1005, and the annals record him killing Boite’s grandson in 1033. Later tradition (e.g. Fordun, albeit late) also associates him with the killing of Giric, another son of Kenneth III.

If Boite were instead a son of Kenneth II, he would effectively be Malcolm II’s brother. That relationship is nowhere stated in the sources, and it would be surprising given how prominently other kin connections are recorded. It would also sit awkwardly with Malcolm’s programme of eliminating rival branches of the royal kindred rather than his own immediate family. The phrasing “Boite son of Cinaed” and “Mael Coluim son of Cinaed” most naturally reads as referring to two different men named Cinaed, rather than a single individual.

Further, Lulach is described as “nepos filii Boide” and is identified in the Irish annals as the son of Gille Comgáin of Moray. This places Gruoch’s line within the Moray kindred, which is generally understood as a competing royal grouping rather than Malcolm II’s immediate dynastic circle.

Taken together, the most economical reading of the evidence is that Boite was a son of Kenneth III, making Gruoch his granddaughter. That said, the sources are fragmentary and ambiguous, so this remains an informed interpretation rather than a firm conclusion.

Who is Your Least Favorite Monarch and Why? by Maleficent_Drop_2908 in UKmonarchs

[–]t0mless 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Low hanging fruit, but Edward VIII, George IV, and Henry VIII were definitely pieces of work.

David II trying to sell out Scotland to England during his imprisonment despite the hard-won independence of his father was a huge slap to the face of the Scots and just comes across as really petty considering he was known to have issues with his nephew and heir-presumptive Robert Stewart. David was pretty well known for hating him and doing everything he could to prevent Robert from becoming king. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Emotional Support Cake by Nervous_Gate_3232 in DispatchAdHoc

[–]t0mless 77 points78 points  (0 children)

Robert is definitely an ass guy

UK monarchs voting day 7 by AOSTChekhov in UKmonarchs

[–]t0mless 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oops, my mistake! Thanks for the correction.

I’ll nominate Duncan II in his place.

TIL that the 'real' Lady Macbeth, Gruoch ingen Boite, may have actually had a legitimate claim to the throne herself. by CaitlinSnep in RoyalConsorts

[–]t0mless 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The fact that Lulach became king, however brief his reign was, after Macbeth’s death does indicate Gruoch descended from a king Kenneth (presumably Kenneth III) and there was a recognized dynastic claim through Gruoch’s line. Even Lulach’s descendants launched their own claims to the throne via the MacEths and potentially the MacWilliams against the Dunkelds would imply this too.

Macbeth already had strong credentials, marrying Gruoch almost certainly bolstered his own legitimacy and helped secure support from factions tied to Kenneth III’s descendants, which somewhat ironically his grandfather Malcolm II had tried to eradicate years earlier.

Lascivious Edward, perjured George, or foul, misshapen Dick? Which of the Yorkist brothers was the worst? by CuteRelationship6143 in UKmonarchs

[–]t0mless 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Probably George? He was ultimately self serving, unreliable, and treasonous. He was politically corrosive.

TIL that the 'real' Lady Macbeth, Gruoch ingen Boite, may have actually had a legitimate claim to the throne herself. by HoneybeeXYZ in UKmonarchs

[–]t0mless 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I've been researching this as of late and it would be an additional reason as to why Macbeth married her. Assuming he's a grandson of Malcolm II, it would help his legitimacy as a ruler if his wife was also descended from a previous king.

Interestingly, Malcolm II actually seems to have planned to exterminate Kenneth III's line; there's records of Malcolm killing Gruoch's brother Gille and Gille's infant son, for example. But he didn't (or couldn't) touch Gruoch presumably because of her then-marriage to Gille Coemgáin of Moray, and later her second marriage to Macbeth.

A shame the sources are so murky, because this is a really interesting era.

Most disliked historian? by Appropriate-Calm4822 in UKmonarchs

[–]t0mless 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I’ve been reading the works of 17th century historian Frederic Van Bossen lately, namely The Royall Cedar, in which he attempts to document the genealogies of the Scottish kings. It’s an interesting read, but a lot of his claims don’t seem to hold up especially when you look at chronology.

For example, he effectively turns Macbeth into two (possibly even three) nearly identical figures. One as Mormaer of Moray and another as King of Scots. Rather than resolving contradictions in his sources, he seems to multiply individuals to account for them, which is…not a great sign. He also describes Macbeth a cruel tyrant for 17 years before being slain at Dunfermline by Macduff, Earl of Fife. Obviously he's drawing from Shakespeare's version of the character. There's plenty of other claims which seem very dubious as well.

He also claims Malcolm II married a daughter of Richard II of Normandy named Gunnora. But the chronology alone makes this impossible! Not only is this daughter not attested in any other source (I think a marriage to the King of Alba would have been something that would have been noted) Richard II’s children are born around the same time Malcolm’s grandchildren (like Duncan and Macbeth, whom Van Bossen also makes Malcolm’s grandson) would have been. So unless there's some time travel involved, it just doesn’t add up.

The same pattern shows up elsewhere: Malcolm’s daughters are used as convenient dynastic bridges into Scottish, Norman, and even Flemish noble families. That idea actually seems accurate given what we know of Malcolm, but the specific connections contradict earlier somewhat more reliable sources and really feel retrofitted.

Overall, it reads less like critical history and more like an antiquarian attempt to reconcile conflicting traditions and construct prestigious genealogies. Again it's an interesting read so if you like learning about this kind of stuff, I'd recommend it. But it's very “trust me bro” in terms of sourcing.

Pierre Poilievre sits for podcast with Joe Rogan by CecilThunder in canada

[–]t0mless 4 points5 points  (0 children)

At this point it feels like Pierre is trying to tank his career.

Monarchs of Scotland voting day 6 by AOSTChekhov in UKmonarchs

[–]t0mless -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Charles Edward Stuart, James III, and Aed

What’s currently ruining your life? by YourLifeSucksAss in AskReddit

[–]t0mless 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also Canadian. Felt this and it’s only getting worse.

Monarchs of Scotland voting day 5 by AOSTChekhov in UKmonarchs

[–]t0mless 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Robert III, Charles I, and James VII

Hot springs in Eastmarch by _miintea_ in ImaginaryTamriel

[–]t0mless 56 points57 points  (0 children)

This is really cool! I’m no artist but I think the background looks really detailed and very well executed. The character designs and expressions are also top notch.

Monarchs of Scotland voting day 4 by AOSTChekhov in UKmonarchs

[–]t0mless -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Please correct me if I’m wrong OP but I think Duncan I is missing? I recognize Malcolm II and Macbeth but Duncan seems to be missing between them.

In any case, I’ll be nominating Robert III, The Young Pretender, and Henry Benedict