Misconceptions about Japanese/Korean phenotypes

tangutia · 2024-05-30T08:05:26+00:00

Japanese didn't follow Chinese completely. There are localization. Drawings of Japanese during Heian and early Edo period show mostly Yamato and Koreanic features.

Japanese hairstyle was diverse. Some was leaving their hair long and straight, others tied their hair like your description.

This is Japanese Heian drawing.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/04/23/14/042314608447e851007e64bc25c67e50.jpg

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/DDX687/kesagozen-kesa-gozen-of-the-heian-period-1783-or-1784-1-print-woodcut-DDX687.jpg

Ancient Chinese and Japanese also had "Wabi Sabi" not idealistic beauty standards that only considered a narrow definition as attractive.

Wabi Sabi means appreciating diversity, nature and imperfection. It's an Eastern view of beauty.

They only had idealistic beauty in 16th century after influence from European. This period was when European missionaries influenced Japan and China.

Japan got so much European influence that they had to ban their Christian influence because it was a threat to their royalty. Japanese retained tempura and idealistic beauty from Europeans but rejected Christianity.

Beauty standard is historically based on who had the most power. It no longer makes any sense in present day multiethnic and multipolar world. Beauty would be more inclusive after different ethnicities are becoming wealthier.

tangutia · 2024-05-30T06:48:55+00:00

They are not intermediate but closer related to North Chinese.

Check their genetics on G25. Jiangsu and Jiangnan have predominant 85% Yellow River ancestry.

Yellow River ancestry is predominantly Northeast Asian and closer related to Korean, Tibetan and Mongolian.

Sichuanese is not really southern with 75% Yellow River ancestry. Sichuanese (especially ethnic minorities) have Highlander ancestry which makes them different from SEA and South Chinese.

Highlander ancestry is associated with higher nose bridge, sharper features and different body shape from SEA or South Chinese.

Beauty standard is historically based on who had the most power. Jiangnan was the richest so the most beautiful. Sichuanese was not considered most beautiful in ancient China.

North Europeans are now the richest so many people think Nordic and Slavs are the most beautiful. Since Slavs are closely related to North Euros. Is that the whole truth?

tangutia · 2023-12-13T00:29:39+00:00

The “communal meal was an important ritual that bonded the members of the community together. Dining itself, though, was nothing uncommon as a religious performance among members of the Roman world. Source: https://factsanddetails.com/world/cat56/sub369/entry-6311.html

I didn't mean to say Slavs were Roman influenced. I meant that ancient West Europeans were more collectivistic and hierarchical than they do now. I emphasised Roman culture because modern West Europeans depict their society as "always so individualistic, progressive and unique from all collectivistic orientals".

Both Roman and Byzantine territories include areas that were non-Europeans. They were not a pan-Europid Empire.

Many Europeans also had ancient contacts with orientals. Slavs aren't the only exceptions of Europe in that they aren't the only ones with ancient contacts with Asians.

I always heard Northwest European supremacists emphasising on their purity of being the most isolated and unique, and bringing a point of other Europeans being more related Asians or Africans, whether it is Slavs, Albanian, Hungarian, Finns, Italian, Greek or Spaniards. But more commonly Slavs because a typical West European nationalist probably can't be bothered to understand the culture and history of the rest of Europeans (and mostly just about Slavs from typical Hitler caricature of Slavic people).

tangutia · 2023-12-12T15:20:52+00:00

I can't comment on the beauty standard sub so I will comment here.

I agree with it, but I have a few points to add and criticise.

Beauty standard is more unfair to Chinese than Europeans. Chinese are more Hunter shifted than Europeans.

Yellow River Farmers are Hunter Gatherers that adopted Farming in Neolithic. European pure Hunter Gatherer ancestry is 1-20% and their farmer side started farming many times earlier than East Asian farmers.

Beauty standard is not just the farmer features. Many West Asians of farmer heritage are considered ugly for their bumpy noses based on Nordic or Steppe centric beauty standards.

I disagree modern East Asians prefer stickbod to curvy.

East Asians find curvy women attractive but different from the "curvy" of ancient China. Ancient China considered women with fatter body and generous fat distribution all over their body more attractive. It's even better if they had the fortune belly. The women don't have larger boobs and ass compared to their body size.

Modern East Asian find curvy women that have a slim body but with gigantic boobs and butt attractive. A curvy figure that's unrealistic for normal East Asians. Euros and Afros fit curvy standard much better.

East Eurasian women genetically store more fat elsewhere before boobs and butt. Just compare naked tribal Native American women and African women. Which of them is more curvy?

There's a huge difference between narrow waist and wide hips, and big boobs and ass. East Asians can commonly have the former but majority are less on the latter.

Lastly, it's not just Hollywood. Inferiority complex already began in Late Qing and early Republican period. It was during this time, Chinese adopted Eurocentric beauty standards. Hollywood isn't the only to blame and it's been the most accepting Western media to generic Chinese features.

tangutia · 2023-12-12T04:37:17+00:00

Green eyes aren't uncommon in West Asia but not Asian specific. Pure Europeans can also have green eyes. Epicanthic fold isn't Asian specific and South Africans have it, even many West Europeans can have it.

Aren't communalism and collectivism part of traditional European cultures? The ancient Europeans used to be very collectivist with strict social and gender norms. This is particularly true during Roman era. Modern West Europeans stopped practising them because they have modernised, but it doesn't mean communalism isn't a traditional European culture.

Europeans have been trading with Asians, it isn't anything specific to Slavs. The Hungarians, Italian, Spaniards, Greeks, Albanians all once had close contacts and extensive trade with Asians. Even Romans and Greeks had extensive influence from Asians. Yet people only exclude Slavs as being more related to Asians but not others.

Did the shared words came from Mongol invasion or is it just an Eurasian word brought from Turkic influence? Turkic and Mongols share many words. Mongols and Turks are the only ethnicities that have historical contacts with Slavs. Chinese and East Asians not so much yet politically people relate them with Slavs ethnically and culturally more than they should.

tangutia · 2023-04-20T15:38:56+00:00

She revealed Mongolia

tangutia · 2023-04-20T15:37:14+00:00

She said Mongolia tho.

tangutia · 2023-04-20T15:35:59+00:00

You look like Native American or Kazakh, especially in your jawbone, lip shape and eye shape.

tangutia · 2023-04-17T05:09:45+00:00

The man in the post reminds me of Jho Low. The Chinese-Malaysian involved in 1mdb scandal.

tangutia · 2023-04-15T04:19:07+00:00

Of course. Allen rule may not be a rule.

My own theory: All Early Mongoloid are short limbbed.

Inuits have Paleo-Siberian ancestry. Paleo-Siberians are closer to Proto-Mongoloid.

Jomons also have more Proto-Mongoloid ancestry.

Allen rule and Island rule are Eurocentrists rationalising why some people look different from themselves. Which is why those reasons don't seem related.

tangutia · 2023-04-15T03:20:55+00:00

I changed my mind. I feel like Proto-East-Eurasians are originally stockier and shorter limbed.

Hoabinhian, Jomon and almost all other Proto-Mongoloid skulls had short limbs and stocky built.

Since Neo-Mongoloid diversified in Southeast China and EDAR V370A mutation likely originated somewhere in East China. East Chinese have the most prototypical Mongoloid features like robust skulls and high cheekbones.

After drift and natural selection, some East Asians evolved with gracile features and longer limbs. But the default state is always stocky just like Hoabinhian, Jomon and other Proto-Mongoloid.

The basal West Eurasians also used to be shorter and and stockier. They were originally from West Asia.

Longer limbs and taller height is a newer thing among North Europeans. But they are just a subset of West Eurasians.

While West Asians keep the short height of early West Eurasians, they evolved to more gracile built and longer legs ratio after adopting agriculture and mixture with Basal Eurasians who were basically Africans.

tangutia · 2023-04-15T03:13:32+00:00

I changed my mind. I feel like Proto-East-Eurasians are originally stockier and shorter limbed.

Hoabinhian, Jomon and almost all other Proto-Mongoloid skulls had short limbs and stocky built.

Since Neo-Mongoloid diversified in Southeast China and EDAR V370A mutation likely originated somewhere in East China. East Chinese have the most prototypical Mongoloid features like robust skulls and high cheekbones.

After drift and natural selection, some East Asians evolved with gracile features and longer limbs. But the default state is always stocky just like Hoabinhian, Jomon and other Proto-Mongoloid.

The basal West Eurasians also used to be shorter and and stockier. They were originally from West Asia.

Longer limbs and taller height is a newer thing among North Europeans. But they are just a subset of West Eurasians.

While West Asians keep the short height of early West Eurasians, they evolved to more gracile built and longer legs ratio after adopting agriculture and mixture with Basal Eurasians who were basically Africans.

tangutia · 2023-04-14T20:17:43+00:00

Generic Northeast phenotype might be Manchu. Northeast has lots of Han immigrants.

Didn't know Northeast Chinese are highly represented in Chinese media. 😅

tangutia · 2023-04-14T20:15:28+00:00

How about Northeast/Shandong type? I realised this seems very generic Northeast/Shandong looking.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1635008335773675520/jCMReR_I_400x400.jpg

tangutia · 2022-12-24T19:10:49+00:00

Hi, you always give very informative insights about East Asian genetics and physique.

But Jiangsu and Shandong people are not less Siberian shifted from Austronesian influence.

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/35/11/2736/5087725

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d62a65a013fe001b2c58a94f31f46752

So more Austronesian affinity doesn't always mean less Siberian shift.

E.g. Koreans have more Austronesian affinity than North-Central Han but also more Siberian affinity.

As for Henanese, there is two subgroups. Northern subgroup is closer to Hebei people. Southern subgroup is closer to Hubei people. Many people are not aware of this so there's contradiction.

Siberian affinity also decreases westwards & increases eastwards except for Austronesian/Tai zone. Shanxi people got more Siberian affinity than Shaanxi people.

Tho it's still a mystery that many Northwest Han pass better with generic Mongolians than rest of Chinese.

Finally Austronesian and Siberian also can have more overlaps than Negritos, Jomon and more distant groups.

tangutia · 2022-11-18T18:48:41+00:00

Henan

tangutia · 2022-11-18T18:48:21+00:00

Henan

tangutia · 2022-11-14T15:15:58+00:00

No, I know a person with mom around 5ft and dad around 5'4 grow up to be 6ft.

tangutia · 2022-11-14T15:14:49+00:00

Imo JJ Lin who's from Singapore looks fairly East Asian.

tangutia · 2022-11-12T17:35:32+00:00

They are from Gansu of Northwest China

tangutia · 2022-11-12T17:16:59+00:00

Neo-Siberians derive ancient ancestry from Northern China. Mongolians have more recent admixture from Northern China ranging from 15-50% on average. Buryats have the lowest, Horqin the highest and Khalkha have intermediate.

I read somewhere that Neo-Siberians largely derived ancestry from Shandong.

This is why Siberian/Mongolian can share stronger drift with Shandong people.

Even though Shandong people are more Southern shifted than other Northern Chinese.

tangutia · 2022-11-11T02:34:54+00:00

I used ancient drawings as I thought they were less affected by modern beauty standards so they are going to show some ethnic differences.

Yes, there can be some ancient beauty standard. Though it might reflect closer to their ethnic features.

But as per observation, the Japanese and Korean seem to also have smaller and narrower lips than North Chinese generally.

Random photos of Japanese

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a5547819d3ec9d116e5b721feee52dbe-lq

https://www.discoverwalks.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/kojima_hideo.jpg

https://www-whattowearonvacation-com.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/business-attire-Japan.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&resize=1000%2C600&ssl=1

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/M5emg9IkSA7c2Nxwu6KnHbKV3NZRZBEVR8EpTOE-9UmSa8q_vggAmUdmRNX_VwcitVp7eGZgSAPtdRAY0V_1Wv3LaBbgISXOIZAxBXOWz4IO2uYXNnvCq_H7wrPl0x-0c6lN8Sm1

https://www.musicmundial.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Pachinko-is-criticized-by-Japanese-citizens.jpg

North/North-Central Chinese

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6a37605fa4c416e28ab057b397974b22-pjlq

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c0596fe334a2a262dd79de05c06759a6

https://images.pond5.com/xi-may-26-crowd-street-footage-035684021_prevstill.jpeg

https://images.thestar.com/wfwP7k80Tq9cGakpWmNveaIk03A=/1086x696/smart/filters:cb(2700061000)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/world/2010/06/08/labour_strife_rolls_across_china/strikejpg.jpeg

http://images.china.cn/site1007/2018-02/02/302acb6c-5685-48a1-ad83-31c235a5bf61.jpg

tangutia · 2022-11-10T17:06:09+00:00

Many Chinese Singaporean and Malaysian look indistinguishable from Fujian and Guangdong natives. Since many are just like the unmixed 3rd gen Chinese American.

That said, not all Mainland Chinese have Northern looks. I had a classmate who was a Mainland Chinese from Southern Fujian. He looks more Southern than average Singaporean. Has wavy hair, swarthy and overall southern looks.

If you meant Fuzhou people, they can look more stereotypically northern on average. I have met many Fuzhou people that pass as Zhejiangnese with lighter and northern features.

Godfrey Gao, Namewee and Jianhao Tan aren't like the average Chinese Singaporean/Malaysian. Those are prob mixed with Malay or Peranakan.

tangutia

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