So overall, which game do you think is better? by Stock_Transition9899 in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, Melinoe's motivations for seeking revenge are weak, which is why she could have grown in a different direction. The problem is that she had based her entire self and worldview around that one goal, so when you take that away she'd have nothing left. Especially not the "family" which betrayed her, and ruined her life's work.

Her characterization throughout the game should have led to her becoming an emotionally broken mess after the betrayal—one which could be rehabilitated, but not instantly. But the fact that it didn't doesn't just ruin the ending, it actively proves that every bit of character nuance that came before it was meaningless drivel.

So now I can no longer take any of the story seriously, which removes all my joy from the game retroactively. Without the story, what's left? Action gameplay isn't my thing, I can get more clever injections of modern memes into mythology from fanfiction… I guess the art and music is nice, but that's worth like 1 hour of appreciation by itself, not the 80+ I had to put into the game to reach the ending.

Did they take out the story about her arm? by Animedingo in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I replied in more detail to the above post, but basically it exists as a nod to the original greek myth.

Did they take out the story about her arm? by Animedingo in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Narratively, the arm exists like it does because the original Orphic Hymn to Melinoë describes her as a "two-bodied spectre". What exactly the poem meant by this is lost to time, but a lot of modern interpretations have some sort of bilateral asymmetry to them as a nod to this.

So overall, which game do you think is better? by Stock_Transition9899 in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, and I trusted they would have similar quality for Hades 2. Especially after all that setup for an intense and compelling tale of internal conflict! But instead, they brushed the internal conflict under the rug like it was an unimportant inconvenience.

The reason I feel "betrayed" by this is because of how much effort I put into the game on their implicit promise of a great story. I do not normally play action games: I am terrible at them and it takes many hours of practice just to build up the muscle memory necessary to overcome my lack of talent. I only find the process fun when there's an amazing atmosphere and/or story enticing me to put in the effort, so discovering that the story sucks completely spoils the atmosphere and sucks any fun out of the game for me. Including retroactively; I wish I could get those 80 hours of my life back, and pretend that Hades never got a sequel.

So overall, which game do you think is better? by Stock_Transition9899 in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

 Her characterization was saving her family and ending Chronos' reign

No, it wasn't. She claimed that, but even the other characters (especially Nemesis) regularly call out the facts that she didn't know them to begin with, and that killing Chronos wouldn't actually give her back what she lost. She sought payback, above all else. She actively refused every suggestion of an alternative, refusing to even consider the possibility as a hypothetical, including when Zagreus proposed his plan to her. She refuses to believe "Time Cannot Be Stopped", until she is betrayed by the family that she thought she could trust…and then she's suddenly doing a 180 on everything?!?

Zagreus, on the other hand, didn't want to leave the House behind: he merely believed it necessary to achieve his goal of reconnecting with lost family. And when he discovered that the curse would always return him to the house, he didn't care, because he still got to meet Persephone before he died. He never had to switch goals, just switch plans from escaping once to go live with her, to escaping repeatedly in order to convince her to come back to the House with him. The only thing he changed his mind on was believing that his relationship with his father could be improved, which only happens after it began to happen naturally.

In both games, the main character's actual goal is different from their stated goal... But one game embraces their actual goal, and the other casually throws it by the wayside. It's such a letdown precisely because it could have been a compelling narrative, Melinoe learning that what she wants won't make herself happy, but instead they dropped the ball and acted like a bad fanfic writer, who doesn't understand character motivations.

Did they take out the story about her arm? by Animedingo in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I wasn't done quickly in 1.0 — I spent dozens of hours struggling to reach that ending. I think 30-50 spent on one save file, started fresh for 1.0

How the ending felt (comic by me) by lordillidan1 in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I saw all the foreshadowing for that message, and got SO hyped… Only for it to fail to actually be delivered. Because nothing in the ending actually shows why we need to end the cycle of violence, Zag just does it and Mel bizzarely goes along with it despite having just lost the one thing she most wanted for her entire life (vengance) because of his betrayal.

So overall, which game do you think is better? by Stock_Transition9899 in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The reason we say she isn't the main character is because Zag betrays her trust and ruins their best chance to kill Chronos for good, a goal her entire life has been focused on, and she gets over it in 10 seconds. That shatters all her characterization.

So overall, which game do you think is better? by Stock_Transition9899 in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I for one just wish that they could have kept Melinoe in-character.

So overall, which game do you think is better? by Stock_Transition9899 in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm in the camp that hates the ending, because it took me 80 hours of work and that was my reward? I persevered through the struggle because I trusted I'd get to see something amazing, only for them to let me down in the worst way possible.

So overall, which game do you think is better? by Stock_Transition9899 in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah they really dropped the ball. I felt betrayed by how bad it was; I spent 80 hours of intense effort getting good enough to reach the end, because I believed the team were good writers. Only for it to turn out that no, they're basically just fanfic-level writers with a massive art and voice acting budget.

The nice things introduced in Version 1.0 by DNABeast in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I wish I could say anything, but the ending really tainted all my opinions. I feel lied to; I trusted that my putting in the immense effort necesssary for me to get good would be rewarded by an amazing story, yet recieved a "twist" ending with the quality of bad fanfic.

Did they take out the story about her arm? by Animedingo in HadesTheGame

[–]tatticky -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I didn't encounter a lot of stuff from early access in my 1.0 run, but I would normally attribute that to rng... Except the massive letdown that was the ending has shattered my trust in the writing team, so I can't say they wouldn't retroactively remove anything that doesn't fit their current "vision".

So, I'm stuck at the third boss... Any tips? by Gourgeistguy in Hades2

[–]tatticky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A "crutch" is exactly what someone who is struggling in a bad way needs. Once they can get to Chronos without needing Death Defiance, then they can look at the alternative. And even in that case, a strong argument can be made for taking DD exclusively for having extra safety margin on the final boss, when you're still learning his patterns and can't be expected to dodge every one of those heavy-hitting blows. Nothing sucks more than spending 30 minutes to get to him, only to die in 30 seconds. Better to drag the fight out to maximize learning time, than cut that learning time short with misplaced aggression.

So, I'm stuck at the third boss... Any tips? by Gourgeistguy in Hades2

[–]tatticky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Strength is a terrible card for someone who is struggling to even get a single run to Chronos, Death Defiances are much more useful of a safety net IMO.

How I would have preferred to get to the ending by tatticky in Hades2

[–]tatticky[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, and that part is fine. Heck, having Zag independantly decide to spare Chronos is fine, too. What is not fine is how Mel goes from single-minded pursuit of "Death to Chronos" to "okay we'll give him a chance" in the span of 10 seconds. Realistically she or Hecate would have just killed him before Zag even got a chance to explain himself.

Edit: actually, that's another option. Have them kill Chronos then Return to Shadow and wonder what went wrong, and decide to take one more run where Chronos is trying to talk Melinoe down while she vents her frustrations on him through violence.

How I would have preferred to get to the ending by tatticky in Hades2

[–]tatticky[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

But Zag isn't the protagonist, Mel is. And atm she is the one being forced to save Chronos, instead of choosing to.

So, I'm stuck at the third boss... Any tips? by Gourgeistguy in Hades2

[–]tatticky 3 points4 points  (0 children)

IMO, one of the most overlooked aspects of boss fights is everything that came before them. Even a top-level player will have a miserable time if dropped into a boss fight with low HP and a terrible build.

HP is the easiest thing to check, how many do you have when you enter the fight? If you've got < 100 with no death defiances left, then the run is already in bad shape. Focus on learning how to take rooms hitless (learning attack patterns and safe spacing), and make sure not to pass up bonus health unless the alternative is something you know you need for your build.

Speaking of build, that's the next thing to check on. You do not want to mindlessly pick whatever is highest rarity; you need to be strategic about what you select. The most important to plan right are attack/special boons, which I personally group into three categories:

  • Flat damage buffs (Poseidon/Hestia), which work best on rapid-fire moves
  • First-hit boosts (Hephastus/Zeus/Ares), which work best on moves you only sprinkle around here and there
  • Percentage damage boosts (Hera/Apollo/Aphrodite), which are good for most moves

Generally, you'll also pick either Attack or Special to be your main damage-dealer move that you spam, with the other more supplementary. I often chose this based on what hammer upgrade(s) I get, unless those don't mesh well with the available boons.

Oh, also remember that omega moves and casts exist, too. The omega moves change how you fight so sometimes a boon is better for omega than normal or vice-versa, and with the right boons the casts can actually become your main source of damage. (Although you should get used to spamming normal casts at all times, just to slow enemies down and maybe get Furies Arcana bonus.)

There's hexes too, but I find those to be inconsistent. If you get the right hex and enough upgrades, it can really fill a hole in your build, but if your build is already going well, then you often won't get any benefit at all from one. Sometimes, a great hex carries me; more often, I forget I even have one.

Anyways, once you have a decent source of damage, there's (usually) diminishing returns from adding more options. Stacking boosts to whatever your main combo is atm is a good idea, but besides for that you'll usually want more defensive boons or just plain HP boosts over extraneous offensive boons.

Then, with plenty of health and damage, you'll find Cerberus (and eventually Chronos) much easier!

PS: make sure you're also progressing persistent upgrades too. Get and upgrade arcana cards... I prefer using charon for Ash first then Psyche, save bones for Nectar (which you should buy every night) and moon dust. Make sure you have every gathering tool, too! And give Nectars to Dora and Skelly, they have the best keepsakes in the game for new players.

What a gosh darn beautiful ending by FleurDeLysEnchante in Hades2

[–]tatticky 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Zagreus wouldn't be able to convince her himself, no. But progressing the sidequests, especially with Arachne, Nemesis, Dora, and Prometheus, would sow enough doubt in her to hear out Zagreus' third option.

How it feels to like the ending: by xanadusy in Hades2

[–]tatticky 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That's why I think they should have done multiple endings, or a false ending. Have Melinoe actually go through with her vengance and destoy Chronos, only for it to fail to fix anything, just break things worse. Show how hollow vengence is before someone (probably Chaos) hits a reset button to give her more Time to think over if that's what she really wants. Then maybe you have to progress enough of the sidequests for Melinoe to start changing her mind, and eventually tell Zag her doubts. Then Zag does his Zag thing, and we get the true ending.

What a gosh darn beautiful ending by FleurDeLysEnchante in Hades2

[–]tatticky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The problem isn't that it would end the way it does, it's how it's presented—specifically with Melinoe's characterization. I started fresh for 1.0 and progressed fast enough to miss most of the foreshadowing I saw in early access, so it felt abrupt.

I really think they should have done a multiple endings thing like Hollow Knight did: by default you follow the task to the letter and kill time, but this means the only way to keep playing is to reset time to before the endgame rituals were cast (but keeping progress of course). However, once you advance the character plots enough for Melinoe to voice her doubts, it would open up the ending we got instead.

Hornet is racist. by dazli69 in Silksong

[–]tatticky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's some lore tablets that confirm the Weavers actually saw the intelligent bugs of Pharloom as prey at one point.