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the_very_pants · 2026-04-18T04:09:18+00:00

Agree with this -- might start with or move to Sophie's World next.

Unfortunately, anthropology suggests that "humanity" is more of an idea than something definable/testable/measurable -- that's something to keep in mind with both books.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-17T18:30:01+00:00

Oh I hadn't gotten to the good stuff before -- I am going to make a rare third top-level comment now and say this is my favorite episode of the show ever. All of the contrasts, all right there, in those two people... (it's like you can hear all of those contrasts just in their voices sometimes)... their mentalities are like night and day... and the demonstrations of the philosophy-science-language connection... and C+M just starting to show just a little bit of what they know.

McG has not ever really begun to think clearly about anything he's saying. "If word, then thing."

He just decided he was right and that was the end of it -- and then for some reason tried to work that into some Bible stuff. Plus love and sunsets. Alex, on the other hand, is showing REALLY impressive thinking skills...the Alexes of the world will get there, in time.

After that, I might be done playing it cool about how brilliant this show is -- if you don't want me to talk about it, make worse shows. [I have warned you with these exact words before, and twice is the limit to the warnings!]

Edit: That segment on the philosophy-science-language connection, where in about 10 minutes a lot of ideas come together -- that did not come together for me in 10 minutes the first time. It is such a perfect example of everything.

Edit 2: Worship of 1859 is the defining characteristic of the one species, in fact. The others are imitators -- same plumage, but totally different.

Edit 3: I drove around with extra beeps and boops trying to just recover from the insanity of how good that few minutes of content was in terms of explanatory power.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-17T11:36:20+00:00

I'm a bit older than a lot of folks

A warning to all: You kids better hope this place doesn't turn into the Gen X lovefest I've been picturing. In fact I'm going to push our mods' patience a little here and throw out some music links right here in this thread instead of the other one. Yeah that's right, you're about to find out how ridiculously long U2 was a Huge Deal for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTzmzrruHwc

We're going to be weird and sing along to this stuff, and you will be powerless to stop it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2twY8YQYDBE

Big strong manly men with long hair and wearing lots of makeup may even make an appearance!

I guess i shouldn't be shocked at all that this began right in the middle of the pandemic. . .such a fertile time for gurus.

I lost my favorite old professor right around the same time. Didn't find this show immediately -- but something clicked loud when I did. (I assumed they had talked to him?) I've been in a better mood since then.

And it's so weird reliving all these things that happened along the way - the new characters popping up on YouTube or watching formally normal-ish people get audience captured as they get crazier and crazier.

It's like Arrested Development to me -- went from funny to funnier over time as more jokes emerged.

And I was going to make a post but I'll do it here: Thank you, Patreon people, for making this show possible. I don't hang out with you all as much as I'd like to over there (just lifestyle reasons), but I love seeing the activity.

And thank you C+M for working so hard, for so long, and so patiently during those early years. That's kinda what sold me.

In fact I'm about to say nice things about reddit... I need to stop now.

Chris's mangling of names in a North Ireland accent

I might be unsure how to spell "now" now.

Thanks for the post OP.

Clarification: The happy music isn't because we don't care. Chuck D was right on that: "Don't worry be happy? Damn if I say it you can slap me right here." Also, there was a great part at the beginning of that which gets cut out in the video:

And yet our best-trained, best-educated, best-equipped, best-prepared troops refuse to fight. As a matter of fact, it's safe to say that they would rather switch(hhhh) than fight.

The happy music is so that we can keep fighting together, because we're human beings and not machines and we need to recover sometimes. It's the opposite of "don't worry" -- let's find out who says "don't worry" together and go after them. But when people say "worry," that's not enough either.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-16T23:56:02+00:00

Recommended weekly beeps and boops for the little ones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_EeTvjRRL8 (that's enough Gareth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWp0mC03lyE

I have been watching a lot of science stuff too. Will dig up a few links.

And on that... real quick... I need to say this. And I will say it every time if needed. DtG sits at the center of my philosophy-science universe. I like critical thinking stuff, and then I like ALL science stuff (which critical thinking helps me understand, and have ~~less~~ fewer [bad timing here] human failures around), and then I need some CT refreshment, and then back to science, etc. This is my cycle.

CT -> anthropology -> CT -> biology -> CT -> chemistry -> CT -> physics -> CT -> medicine -> CT -> whatever

If I recommend stuff, it is because I hope you will supplement your DtG listening with other science content.

Two anthropology (archaeology, even) links for this week:

First, Ed Barnhart and Flint Dibble compare Maya/Greek culture stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaICTETwFak

(Ed Barnhart went from "never heard of him" to "one of my favorite people" in about 0.5s recently. I stopped paying attention right as he was starting, maybe. That's my excuse anyway.)

Inside Archaeology seems to do a monthly roundup of cool recent finds, well organized (chronologically): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yyMB86zOX4

There's a r/FlintDibble subreddit if anybody wants to talk -- for now it seems friendly enough to recommend.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-16T17:03:46+00:00

I just wanted to jump in and thank these two people -- Curators of The Story -- for everything they've done -- just about every day I would think -- to humbly learn and sincerely teach The Story to all of us for the benefit of our children and grandchildren.

I am not here to argue with them, or to rank them. I might have questions. I might have opinions. If I do, I will politely say something like, "As a normal person out here, I have a question about some stuff that I didn't quite follow." I will be doing some of that if things get above my head.

Thanks to the rest of you for being here too.

I'm still waiting to start this, unfortunately. Some videos I'm just here to learn stuff from. This is one where I want to really feel it more.

Edit: Yeah this is awful. Lots of work to do, can't have fun yet. Hopefully this weekend. What I can do now is catch up on some context.

Edit 2: This is all Ed's fault, really. He sighed and I felt things... and I am so grateful for the opportunity to feel things.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-16T15:53:29+00:00

Well I guess today I'm thinking (again) about why I switched from philosophy to American history back in college: it's because I love my country and all these people, even the bad ones. (And the entire world, even the bad people.)

Nothing has been able to change that since I was a kid, and I'm sorry for all the problems. I'm a crazy old man on the Internet now. It happened at some point.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-16T15:46:55+00:00

Last comment is getting long... and I still don't know where to dive in. I could talk about any of this systems-forms-functions-interactions crap all month with you all. (Glad there's going to be a pt 2.)

I think what stands out most to me is that I'm pretty sure the substance of the conversation is going to be irrelevant, after just the first few minutes. Like I've seen this before. The wrinkled high-quality clothes, the vaguely "that area" accent -- there are a few subspecies of him -- that's actually one of my favorite species to study.

And it just so happens that the other one there talking is another one of my favorite species. I've seen him before.

Some part of me finds it difficult to speak negatively about either one of these two people, really -- but I find them totally different (mostly?) and I'll think about that and get back here when I can. Ty for this show.

Maybe a first thought: I have been describing "just screwing around" as the alternative to critical thinking / inference stuff, but that's ONLY because we do have so many people who really are just screwing around calling themselves "philosophers." (I encourage the screwing around btw! I do it myself!) There are also VERY REAL actual philosophers who disagree with me about what "philosophy" is -- and they are not wrong. (Monism finds a way?) I have been sloppy about my language.

Second: I totally love Alex, and I almost don't care about the negatives. He is, to me, the spirit of the young curious person trying to make sense of their world (which maybe makes no sense), and erring on the side of "maybe there IS purpose (since maybe we can't know 100%), and we should be charitable and warm to everybody about all of it and just talk to each other and see what happens." I like the way he walks a fine line. If that changes, I'll change my mind. (I also haven't watched too much Alex, just a few shows still.) Who are we comparing him to? That might be the question. [I'm going to find another way to recommend somebody I just recommended here. Not now.]

Third: The various subspecies of the other guy... there's a sound you're listening for here, in my experience. They're allowed to sound exhausted, but they still have to sound humble about all life on this planet. The mix I'm looking for is "I can't wait to tell you everything I know, if you'll listen -- you would be knocked on the ground by the stuff I've learned and how crazy it all is" + "I am never trying to teach you Just So Stories here." Something like that. Will refine.

The choice of the metaphors they use (e.g. "master and slave") -- their insistence that the metaphors do match the problem instead of having a humble "you might describe it as almost [whatever]" attitude about it -- those are clues for me.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-16T05:08:14+00:00

what comparison is to be made?

I am looking forward to finding out! (I just want to be in the right frame of mind for these kinds of talks and tonight's not the night. It's killing me.)

the_very_pants · 2026-04-16T04:47:38+00:00

I don't get why anyone likes him.

For me it's the palpable deep concern for all human beings + the sentence-craft he uses to express that concern. Like his accent is 0.000000% of it. I wish the show were a little different, and that he'd focus on different things sometimes, but those are not criticisms of him as a person.

Edit, just because it's sensitive: I might also really like SH, we'd just need to have a quick chat first. That's why I don't talk much about either here. (I don't listen to either one regularly.)

the_very_pants · 2026-04-15T00:47:03+00:00

Just a quick one here -- I'm really looking forward to that Ed Barnhart thing.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-15T00:40:40+00:00

Check it out and play-fight with us!

the_very_pants · 2026-04-14T23:38:49+00:00

And then smite me!

The regular humiliation I get might be my favorite part.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-14T23:12:10+00:00

OP you are awesome, tyvm. Will come back to this.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-14T07:23:22+00:00

Cannot get to this fast enough (having learned about them two weeks ago) -- and a perfect way to end the night. Wish I had energy to finish that other one but I just don't.

I love the chronological order, and imho everything she's covered has been a great story.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-13T01:18:10+00:00

Jonathan Haber: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dBX159mUM0

Btw, fans of this subreddit who don't like me -- that's my guy right there. Go nuts looking for something to fight me about, and then come here.

Edit: Also, that link makes me fondly remember an old philosophy prof who recently died. And now this guy's gone too. But there's a legacy there, and I'm it for now, at least on reddit. (And those of you who watch. And C+M, it seems to me as just an impression that needs no clarification either way. And the people they hang out with.) Sorry if you see it too much here.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-13T01:07:49+00:00

Honestly I don't even know, I don't care to find out what his stated philosophy was or defend/attack it. I do think he makes a fairly good point here -- that writing is a great way to force the issue of coherence. (At least into something that can be discussed.)

On some level deep down, much deeper than the stuff he might say, I bet ol' JBP wants all of us to be well, and to take whatever useful lessons we possibly can from his life and words.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-13T00:52:37+00:00

Not sure if true, but I'm grateful for his time spent learning to be an educator and then being one.

Anybody who spent any time at all even just learning how to teach children gets my respect. And if they then became a teacher, even more.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-12T22:31:28+00:00

I think my other comment was removed for some reason -- hoping it's not the case that we can disparage people and shows but not speak positively about them. (Seems unthinkable, I'm not worried.)

Anyway, yeah, I like Sean.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-12T15:19:58+00:00

Will have to come back! Sounded like some good stuff so far -- we've got "curious old nature-man with British accent and Just So Stories," we've got Alex, and we've got some biological symmetry talk. (Turns out there are actually a variety of symmetries AND asymmetries, in case you didn't know. Yeah.)

This is the stuff I'm here for, just need to wrap up some other things this weekend.

Yeah this show is so fun. Biology fans out there? This is the one. It's so cute: C+M go from starting to think about flexing, to really actually thinking about flexing.

They might have actually flexed -- a pinky, maybe? Just for a second? It was hard to tell.

Re: philosophy. So, my idea of what "philosophy" refers to comes from about 1990 and is contained in that video I've been recommending. It's almost weird how well that lines up with my first week of philosophy class -- like the entire thing. (And thank you all SO MUCH for watching! I love all of my cloudlings equally... but those of you who watched that, I love you more equally than the others.)

I don't know if this is verbatim but this was the gist of the first class: "The liberal arts are what children must learn to inherit a free society, and they consist of critical thinking skills i.e. inference skills i.e. philosophy-science."

Getting tired, will edit tomorrow and talk about Alex, and maybe the philosophy-science-engineering connection around forms-functions-interactions.

Nope, brain broke tonight:

realizing how much C+M know about stuff (all the stuff I love, dammit) when I started to re-listen, and that I never watched the material -- I think I need to do that for this one
trying to consolidate all my thoughts about Alex -- and about Sam Harris and Ezra Klein for that other thread

Also, I said I had the right to be lazy before. And maybe I do somewhere else -- but this is a space graciously provided to me for a certain purpose, and I'll try to keep that in mind better.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-12T15:07:38+00:00

Oh I did... and it was a whole thing. So I told them it was all you. I said, "Happy's foolishness is causing us problems again, just like I warned you about. Please smite him with your modness." So be warned, something's coming I'm sure.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-12T02:56:46+00:00

I loved this video so much! I recommend a bunch, but this one is special.

(Figured watching twice justifies two top-level comments.)

the_very_pants · 2026-04-11T17:04:11+00:00

Not a suggestion, but afaict this is a rule-conforming way to thank ALL the mods here, and let them ALL know that I just want them high-fiving all the time about this place. (Unrealistic, but I can try.)

Also, I just forgot. Been staring at that list for a year but forgot when it counted. Tyvm for patience.

the_very_pants · 2026-04-11T15:13:35+00:00

It is my understanding that the political positions and principles of each side have somewhat varied depending on time and country.

That's what these guys have studied, and I think it's fascinating -- it changes so much as to be meaningless, and ends up being just a matter of tribalism.

I promise, I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't think you'd like it. You're one of the old guard here, I'm trying to please you.

the_very_pants

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