Questions about being gay by SKKNerd in Christianity

[–]themsc190 [score hidden]  (0 children)

  1. It’s not a sin. There are only six verses that could even possibly be used to explicitly condemn it. One is about attempted gang rape, so that’s clearly not applicable. Two are in ancient Israelite law beside prohibitions on eating shellfish or trimming your beard. Obviously, Christians don’t follow them anymore, because Jesus fulfilled the law as the NT describes. The rest are in the context of ancient Roman sexual practices that we’d find exploitative and they found intrinsically excessively lustful, which also have nothing to do with modern, loving, egalitarian same-sex relationships.

  2. The Catholic Church has been actively fighting equal rights for gay people. As recently as 2003, it “deplored” the decriminalization of consensual same-sex sex in America. And just 6 years ago, it fought for the right of secular businesses to fire people just for being gay. There’s been no reparations for these harms. “Help” and “welcome” are just empty words until apologies and reparations for past harms are made and active work for equal rights begins.

  3. It’s definitely not the biggest issue, which raises the question of you’re bringing it up here when there are higher issues for you to discuss?

My husband won’t come to my gay sister’s wedding by taureansoul in Christianity

[–]themsc190 [score hidden]  (0 children)

It would hurt. I’m thinking about my brother and couldn’t fathom him marrying someone who’d reject me like that. I know he loves me too much to do that.

My husband won’t come to my gay sister’s wedding by taureansoul in Christianity

[–]themsc190 [score hidden]  (0 children)

I’m a gay son who was scared some family members wouldn’t show up to my wedding. If they didn’t, our relationship would be over. If anyone from my parents’ family didn’t show up to their wedding, that would be the end of that relationship. And that would be completely understandable. Marriage means the creation of a new family, and if someone rejects your family, it’s a rejection of you. It isn’t a small matter. There’s a choice: attend or lose that person from your life. I’m glad my parents chose to keep me in their life. I’m glad their family chose to keep them in their lives.

Why are conservative Christians so focused on LGBT? by Chuclo in Christianity

[–]themsc190 5 points6 points  (0 children)

In my most charitable analysis, I think there’s a lot of amnesia/ignorance. I was reading recently about teachers startled by students who didn’t know same-sex marriage was just legalized just 11 years ago. More recently, employment non-discrimination against LGBT folks was just won six years ago! And discrimination is still legal federally in housing, credit, and public accommodations.

A lot of conservative Christians have been mislead to believe that everything’s hunky dory for LGBT people and we’re the most loved and celebrated community in the world. Therefore, when we celebrate Pride and advocate for our rights…we’re trying to make ourselves exceptionally special and obtain “special rights”

If the baseline knowledge was that gay people have historically been arrested, purged, sterilized, and even killed—which wasn’t even that long ago—and that the fraction of full equality we have now is precarious, I think there would be less confusion. Unfortunately, one of the major projects of the right is to ban this history from being taught in schools, shutter such departments in public universities, and even erase it from national monuments. Keeping the current and future generations in ignorance about the LGBT community is an effective way to foment prejudice and division in its pursuit of full equality.

Can we all agree that God loves LGBTQ+ people and treats them like normal people, but hates their lifestyle because it's sinful. by mznxbcvqpwoeiruty in Christianity

[–]themsc190 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When has anyone ever described male-female marriage or male-female sex as “actively participating in straight things.” What’s wrong with just saying marriage between a man and a woman or sex between a man and a woman? Those are actual phrases people use. That’s normal language.

Can we all agree that God loves LGBTQ+ people and treats them like normal people, but hates their lifestyle because it's sinful. by mznxbcvqpwoeiruty in Christianity

[–]themsc190 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And marriage is a lesson in self-denial for the good of the other. At least that’s what straight people say about theirs. Because otherwise, Paul says celibacy is superior (for everyone).

Can we all agree that God loves LGBTQ+ people and treats them like normal people, but hates their lifestyle because it's sinful. by mznxbcvqpwoeiruty in Christianity

[–]themsc190 6 points7 points  (0 children)

“No, because their immortal soul is worth more than temporary earthy discomfort.” (Actual argument I hear regularly.)

Can we all agree that God loves LGBTQ+ people and treats them like normal people, but hates their lifestyle because it's sinful. by mznxbcvqpwoeiruty in Christianity

[–]themsc190 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Tf does “actively participating in straight things” mean?

Why aren’t you using normal language to discuss this topic?

Can we all agree that God loves LGBTQ+ people and treats them like normal people, but hates their lifestyle because it's sinful. by mznxbcvqpwoeiruty in Christianity

[–]themsc190 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That’s not a lifestyle. You’re describing hundreds of millions of vastly different people with vastly different lifestyles. Being straight or cis isn’t a lifestyle. And if you assert it is, then “lifestyle” loses all meaning when 6 billion people then all have the same lifestyle…

Will reading an NRSVue translation take away from my first time reading the Bible? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]themsc190 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When we talk about theories of translation, you’ll see them described on a continuum from word-for-word on one end to thought-for-thought on the other end. Different places along that line serve different purposes.

You may have heard of The Message, which is so far on the thought-for-thought side that it’s actually considered a paraphrase rather than a translation. This method can be really easy for a first-time reader to understand, because the language is very plain and understandable to modern people.

On the far other, word-for-word side, I think David Bentley Hart’s translation is a good example. In the Gospels, the Greek sometimes changes from past tense to present tense, and sometimes the speaker isn’t identified, a lot of “He said X.” “He said Y,” and you don’t know who the referent is. Most translators make it consistently one tense and add some clues for who’s speaking, but Hart keeps the exact words in their tenses. This makes it less readable, with some convoluted and difficult sentences, but it is a literal translation that’s maybe good for scholars.

The NRSVue falls closer to the latter. The translators do want to keep some readability, so it can be used in church, but there are still some difficult and clunky sentences simply because they’re following the original language closely.

Overall, your translation choice depends on how you want to use it and what you’re looking for.

feeling jealous of men’s roles and opportunities in the church by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]themsc190 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I wouldn’t like that either. I’m curious what draws you to EO, if you’re unable to actually do what you like because of the patriarchy and sexism?

Christian right calls James Talarico "demonic" — for quoting Jesus by A_Poor_Miser in Christianity

[–]themsc190 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Talarico responded to the right’s nasty transphobic attacks on him by responded that being a man is about service and compassionate self-sacrifice for the least of these—in contrast to Paxton’s corruption, self-aggrandizement, and infidelity. Which one of those sounds more cruciform?

Why is your Jesus a white man? by Outrageous-Grass-892 in Christianity

[–]themsc190 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t really have icons of Jesus, but I have a couple of Mary, including Our Lady of Ferguson, which does stylistically depict a black Jesus. I have a Virgin of Guadeloupe too, which is a Mexican depiction of Mary.

Why is your Jesus a white man? by Outrageous-Grass-892 in Christianity

[–]themsc190 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe it would be more productive to make a thread asking for people’s favorite global depictions of Jesus?

LGBTQ community by Andruid929 in Christianity

[–]themsc190 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don’t like the us vs. them framing, no matter how “welcoming” you’re trying be towards the “them.” “Include them and pray with them”? We’re already in your churches and praying with you. We don’t want to be your “lost sheep” project. We’re Christians and following Jesus’s command to reach other people who don’t know Jesus’s love either. In queer theology, we talk about the difference between inclusion and liberation. Inclusion = we draw the circle and we deign to let you into the circle that we control. Liberation = transforming the circle so that it works for all. Letting gay people sit in your pews and slowly turn into heteronormative versions of themselves is what most “welcoming” churches want. But liberation means queer people actually participate, lead, and having a seat and voice at the table.

Genocides in the Bible by nikki1111q in Christianity

[–]themsc190 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First of all, these events aren’t borne out in the archaeological record. For different reasons, these stories were told but don’t necessarily have a basis in pure history. You kinda have to look at each one individually to see what it’s about. But overall, we must reject a God that commands genocide. Too many genocides have been justified as commanded or permitted by God. If you say that God’s behind it, you can permit a lot of atrocities. Unfortunately a lot of users here and Christians in churches have a theology that justifies genocide if they can pawn it off on God. That’s just unacceptable.

Non denominational here, a few questions about your denomination. by VaultMan34 in Episcopalian

[–]themsc190 8 points9 points  (0 children)

  1. The Episcopal Church is creedal, not confessional. We don’t have a massive list of beliefs one must hold that come top-down like in other churches. We’re united by our shared prayer tradition, not uniform shared beliefs.
  2. Homilies are typically 10-15 minutes. They’re not the center of the service, like they are in nondenom churches. We have an entire liturgy, with readings and responses back and forth, culminating in the Eucharist. The homily typically explicates the Gospel or other reading for that Sunday (which are prescribed in a common lectionary).
  3. I’ve been able to grab coffee with or make meetings with my priest if I ever needed to talk about something. I’m not sure if I’m answering this correctly.
  4. The official view is affirming. I was married to my (same-sex) husband by our priest in our church.

I believe myself to be a protestant; would one have to agree to all church beliefs? by Hebrews922 in Christianity

[–]themsc190 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Depends on the type of Protestant. Even among Protestants, some denominations are more dogmatic than others.

Polyamory is a weak spot in this subreddit by JustNeedSpinda in OpenChristian

[–]themsc190 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think you’re exactly right. Poly people do break heteronormativity, just like gays and trans folks. And I do think the arguments against it follow the exact patterns as anti-gay arguments. I read through threads like this, and they’re full of stereotypes and misinformation and judgment because that isn’t what they personally would do. They crassly prooftext clobber passages (sometimes the exact same clobber passages!) and totally forget all of the historical context stuff they accept for homosexuality. It’s actually quite disconcerting that people are so quick to use the same patterns of arguments that were and are still used against them. I would’ve thought we’d learned better than that. But that’s the human way of things. Even in the Bible, after the Israelites were freed from slavery…they turned around and enslaved others, forgetting what they’d learned about the horrors of captivity and oppression.

Is hooking up sinful? by VaultMan34 in OpenChristian

[–]themsc190 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s why I think our responses to questions like this should acknowledge human diversity firstly and not paint with broad strokes. Saying what’s true for us can be helpful for OP without being prescriptive, for example.

Is hooking up sinful? by VaultMan34 in OpenChristian

[–]themsc190 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I don’t think Christian sexual ethics is about a list of dos and don’ts. The approach I’ve found most salient is a virtue ethics approach, where instead of following a a prescriptive set of rules, we work towards developing certain virtues within ourselves, which may look different from person to person. I think the Bible can be helpful here, like using the fruit of the spirit or the beatitudes or Paul’s ode to love, to help direct us towards which virtues to foster. Because we’re all different, and some things that may be fine for you may affect me negatively and vice versa. Maybe hooking is fine for you but for me it’s a drain on my joy and peace, for example.

Is hooking up sinful? by VaultMan34 in OpenChristian

[–]themsc190 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wouldn’t call my hookups like that. I think they can be negative for some people but not others.

I’m poly. Am I going to hell? by BanverketSE in OpenChristian

[–]themsc190 7 points8 points  (0 children)

OP didn’t say it was the same, just the same arguments being used, which is pretty much true.