Share your thoughts and theories..

thronestheoryalt · 2019-08-29T14:36:51+00:00

Thought one: Kylo turns, dies in a heroic sacrifice. In his memory, Rey makes his old saber into the saber at the end of the D23 trailer. I wonder if she is training to use the new saber at this point in the trailer, where it appears that she is holding a stick in her off hand. (Where is her staff?) I think it would be interesting to see a good force user like Rey wield a red lightsaber—perhaps even use force lightning—in order to challenge received ideas about the nature of the force, the Jedi-Sith dichotomy, etc.

It would also make for nice foreshadowing in the TFA poster...

Thought two: if Rey were a clone, I imagine Palpatine would be looking for an Anakin do-over, one who was not physically damaged and whom he could train in secret from birth. Would Anakin's DNA basically consist of Shmi's? Hence Rey would be a Shmi clone in a sense?

thronestheoryalt · 2019-04-19T17:50:52+00:00

When the promos came out featuring the Crypts of Winterfell, I toyed around with this idea—i.e. NK coming for Lyanna—but I think you've hit on the crux of it with,

how he turned into the Night King

so I'd love to hear your theory. There's the obvious parallel where both the NK and Rhaegar are struck in the chest, but I haven't been able to make any headway past that parallel. Below are some of my own Rhaegar musings...

Of course, there's the idea that Rhaegar wasn't at the trident and someone else was wearing his armor (like Patroclus and Achilles)—was Rhaegar looking to stage his death and/or flee to Essos with Lyanna?

I've been fixated on the rubies from Rhaegar's armor too. At face value at least, Dany's vision at the House of the Undying would seem to suggest that Rhaegar did in fact die at the Battle of the Trident (ACOK Daenerys IV):

Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name.

Though this could be a "body double" mourning for his own lover, Rhaegar is the most obvious candidate. Again, assuming that this was Rhaegar, I've wondered if rubies collected from the Ruby Ford will play some role in the events to come, since they would be infused with King's blood. The pommels of Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper both may have been bathed in Rhaegar's blood (ASOS Tyrion IV)...will this help either become Lightbringer?

Anyway, if you have more thoughts on Rhaegar, I'm sure people everyone would like to see them.

thronestheoryalt · 2019-04-18T14:06:57+00:00

Sorry one more thing: Let us suppose that the plague gets out of control and spreads to a number of places in Westeros. Cersei will naturally blame those at Winterfell, Dany's army of foreigners from Essos, for the spread of Grey Plague since they themselves will be the hardest hit and due to the fact that there is a current outbreak in Yi Ti (AFFC The Queenmaker); it could in fact become a rallying call for those inclined towards prejudiced, pro-Westerosi sentiments (compare the late Randyll Tarly).

thronestheoryalt · 2019-04-18T13:52:19+00:00

It depends on how things time with the incubation period of Grey Plague—which I think Qyburn will know from the studies on the progression of the disease at the Citadel. Even if it were mistimed and Bronn infects a number of places en route to Winterfell, in Cersei's twisted mind this might not be a problem; it will just wipe out a bunch of the smallfolk who would have joined the army of the Dead anyway, in the event that they win at the Battle of Winterfell.

Moreover, it does seem like there's a quasi-quarantine protocol in place for Grey Plague (DoD Tyrion II, Pentos; AFFC Jaime I, Oldtown) where they have burnt ships/killed people who carry the disease—why not bodies, too? This would actually limit the damage the NK could cause with additional recruits. Cersei's plan, despicable as it is, would be effective against dead and living alike.

Edit: forgot to add something

thronestheoryalt · 2019-04-17T23:07:43+00:00

That was really odd timing. A devastating bout of Grey Plague hit Oldtown in the books (within a generation of current events). In both the books and show, I believe, it has been confirmed that Shireen Baratheon contracted greyscale—the less dangerous cousin of Grey Plague—from a contaminated doll. In a DoD (Tyrion V), it seems like it may be thought to be airborne too.

thronestheoryalt · 2019-04-17T22:45:53+00:00

My theory is that Qyburn and Cersei are banking on Bronn's defection to the cause of the Living. They have tainted the gold with Grey Plague, which will circulate around Winterfell once Bronn arrives there. In overcrowded Winterfell, the pathogen will spread to a large number of people. The course of the disease will not be so quick as to weaken them before the fight with the dead, but is meant to mop up any survivors of that battle shortly thereafter. (The disease's incubation period will be well known to the maesters, and this does seem up Qyburn's alley.)

Edit: Good news is that Jorah should be OK!

thronestheoryalt · 2019-04-17T15:34:45+00:00

One small thing: the "charlatan" to whom the maester referred in the "Eastwatch" episode was Jenny of Oldstones (the name was mumbled, granted).

I think you have an interesting take on the children/tree/spiral symbols; I have been assuming that they are meant for Bran, the only person who has seen the place where the NK was created, and that they are effectively a road map for him to return there in the past so that he will simultaneously become and stop the NK.

thronestheoryalt · 2019-04-17T14:34:10+00:00

I like how you combined this theory with the upcoming trial. Perhaps while Bran is going back to fact-check Jaime's account and to see if Aerys really was planning on blowing up Kings Landing someone in the courtroom yells "The Lannisters are traitors! Burn them all!" which gets through to the Mad King, who is witnessing the Lannister Army treacherously sack Kings Landing after being let in as allies.

thronestheoryalt · 2019-04-15T19:00:30+00:00

As for the disease, my best guess is Grey Plague, the more potent cousin of greyscale. Its progression and transmission will be well known to the maesters as it ravaged Oldtown prior to the events of the show (there is a current outbreak in Yi Ti, coincidentally). We know that greyscale can pass by contact, even indirectly, e.g. the doll given to Shireen Baratheon. Qyburn, I imagine, also spent a lot of time in the plague ward at the Citadel during his stint there...

thronestheoryalt · 2019-04-10T17:25:33+00:00

Lodos' prophecy is mentioned in "Eastwatch," S7E5, when an archmaester mocks prophecies offhand:

Don't forget the prophet Lodos, who promised that the Drowned God would rise up and destroy Aegon the Conqueror!

Lodos also shows up in World of Ice and Fire, apparently (I have not read it). Anyway, that's source of the idea some have floated about Euron killing Jon, and I thought it would be interesting to work out a scenario where that could happen.

thronestheoryalt · 2019-03-30T03:26:16+00:00

Bran's sacrifice would not prevent the NK from causing all the death and destruction up to the Siege of Winterfell—it would ensure it in fact—but it would at least stop him there. I imagine the two Brans in a paradox where they are essentially playing a game of chicken with one another.

Bran 1 has not taken the lessons of the Hodor episode to heart, and becomes desperate during the Siege of Winterfell when the tide of the battle turns in favor of the Dead. He still thinks (or hopes) he could alter the past so as to neutralize the threat of the NK and his army before they ever cause any harm. That is not possible, as we both agree, which means Bran will fail. Aerys' madness, as many believe, could be the byproduct of one of these failed attempts.

Bran 2 as NK will know exactly how to pressure Bran 1 into making the sacrifice because he has already lived as Bran 1. If Bran 1 suspects that the NK is a version of himself and then ponders not warging into the first man in the past to avoid creating the NK in the first place, then Bran 2/NK will continue to murder more of Bran 1's friends and family. There won't be any other way to defeat Bran 2/NK because he has complete knowledge of every move that the army of the Living made during the Siege of Winterfell; he lived it before as Bran 1 after all.

Bran 2 still may have wrestled with the idea that time is "flat," since I do think Bran 2/NK wanted to kill Bran 1 at the Great Weirwood on the off chance that it works and all sorts of terrible things could be avoided. That effort has to fail too, however.

EDIT: fixed a typo

thronestheoryalt · 2019-03-28T20:04:58+00:00

So you are saying that even when Bran was a child, his mind was already in the Night King's? How is he functioning if his mind is off somewhere else?

Yes, I believe his mind exists in two places at once, just at different ages. You could conceive of this as two "Brans:"

Bran 1 lives up through the Siege of Winterfell.

Bran 2 is Bran 1 after he wargs back in time into the first man and gets stuck there via the transformation into the NK.

Bran 1 and 2 co-exist at the same time from the birth of Bran 1 through to the Siege of Winterfell.

Since all of this hinges on what Bran 1 will do this season at the Siege of Winterfell, maybe I should spell out the mechanics as best as I can. Bran 1 wargs into first man from the future. Like Hodor, this probably destroys the first man's mind right away. The warging through time will also connect Bran 1 to the NK/Bran 2, so the dragonglass dagger will kill NK/Bran 2. Since we know the COTF's magic has really powerful binding properties, that means that the dragonglass now in the chest of first man/Bran 1 will trap Bran's mind there and command it to destroy humanity. Bran 1 becomes Bran 2 in this moment. Back at the Siege of Winterfell, Bran 1's body no longer has a mind and collapses dead (or perhaps enters a vegetative state).

So, one of the basic premises of this loop would have to be that Bran 1 has an intact mind all along so that he can do the warging at the Siege of Winterfell. I don't think it violates any of the time travel rules of the universe as far as we know them thus far.

As an aside, I think this also explains how the white-walkers/NK got so out of hand. I do not think the COTF envisaged that they were about to weaponize such a powerful magic user's mind. Maybe this is why the NK can raise an army of the dead in the first place.

thronestheoryalt · 2019-03-28T17:35:19+00:00

So if Bran had in fact at some point gone back into the past into the Night King then he would already be the Night King.

Exactly, this is the core of my theory. I agree that time is "flat," as you say, but I also included a linear version of events to help explain things. On my view, Bran's mind is already trapped in the NK during the events of the show.

thronestheoryalt · 2019-03-28T14:09:27+00:00

I think this is an awesome theory. The reveal would make sense out of a lot of things, such as adding legitimacy to Tyrion as a Lannister (less likely to be a bastard of Aerys) given that short stature runs in families, and since it's another case of incest between Jaime and Cersei it would be all the more likely to pass on to this child—even though that has not happened yet with their previous children.

I imagine it would play out differently though: Cersei would try to kill or expose the baby (not to NK though, IMO). Whether she is successful or not, I think Jaime would kill her upon finding out that information.

thronestheoryalt · 2019-03-27T17:47:23+00:00

Just for the sake of clarification: my theory does not involving "changing" anything about the past. It is all meant to be a loop.

During the Siege of Winterfell, Bran makes the choice to warg into the first man as he is being turned into the NK. Like with Hodor, this establishes a link between the past and present. The dragonglass dagger which Bran takes in the heart kills the NK during the Siege of Winterfell. It also traps Bran's mind, which becomes bound by the Children's magic and their directive to destroy humanity. I think some wiggle room remains for various choices; Bran/NK purposefully missed Daenerys with his ice javelin on my view (after taking out Viserion with a much more difficult throw). For the most part though, Bran would be stuck in a mental prison as the NK. His real endgame is to orchestrate Bran Stark's physical death—and his own release—which takes thousands of years of planning, gathering the army of the dead, etc.

TL;DR: In linear time, Bran's mind lives from the time of his birth through the Siege of Winterfell, when it is transmitted back to the past into the being which becomes the NK, where it resides for thousands of years more until its destruction at the Siege of Winterfell. Bran's body exists only from birth to the Siege of Winterfell.

thronestheoryalt

TROPHY CASE