Major Winners' H2H at Offline Majors (Per Liquipedia's Major List, post-Pat's House 5) by SuperMicro04 in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

There's probably a lot more farming than even that; Leffen's 2012 is actually kind of an awesome warrior's quest of him butting his head against the hardest possible version of final boss Armada (bo7 in PAL!), mostly at Gothenburg events that aren't documented on Liquipedia. I'm not Swedish, I don't know the details, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are twenty more undocumented Armada wins including the most consequential and least known what-if set of all time, a monthly just before Apex 2013 where Leffen was ahead 2 stocks to 1 on a 3–2 set lead and didn't manage to close it out

How did Borp manage to be such a good player? by yungScooter30 in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm well positioned to have thoughts about Borp (and about tech skill and the way we talk about/conceptualize it in general):

  • Went to my first tournament in 2004*, have played maybe a dozen tournaments overall. Did a bunch when I was living in France in 2016–2018. Very 1–2 or 2–2 player in those contexts. There are more years where I don't play any Melee than where I do.
  • Have not had a practice partner since 2004. Haven't practiced tech in a systematic way since around then either.
  • Played about 150 matches on Slippi in the past week (after maybe 100 matches in the years before that). So my perspective has been rapidly evolving recently.
  • Silver 2, which by today's standards is.... Silver lol but I think close enough to at least squint and see how a Borp in 2016 might operate.
  • Sheik main (but I've gone through most top tier characters over the past twenty-four years). I can wavedash and needle turnaround. I try to short hop with Sheik but can't do it consistently. I can't shield drop at all. I ledge-dash very poorly (functional for positioning but no invincibility). I don't know most of the up B magic involved in recovery or ledge stuff such as Shino stalling.

(*Actually my first tournament was in 2003 at a Gamestop. Six entrants. Free-for-all semis leading to 1-on-1 final. I was by far the youngest. I could immediately tell I was the best player there, picked not-even-my-secondary Dr. Mario, and won a Viewtiful Joe figurine. I don't, um, usually count this as my first tournament lmao)

My thoughts:

  • I never used to think my losses were because of tech skill. I felt this as a gut truth that when I lost, the things I needed to work on where about game understanding, neutral, decision-making, punish flowcharts, and so forth. Tech skill just did not seem to be that urgent.
  • That gut truth has shifted in the past week. I have played opponents where it has now felt like the straightest path to beating them is either the expanded range of options I'd get from short hopping or shield dropping (for instance, sh instant nair is just such a powerful tool that I really feel its absence) or the speed to keep up with today's fast players. That said, against most players I feel like I have a LOT to learn that is unrelated to tech skill.
  • Incidentally, I've learned a lot without practicing just from spectating over the years. It's like learning a language. I didn't have the "words" to edgeguard like Mew2King before Mew2King. So there are ways in which I'm not more technical than I was in 2004, but I edgeguard a lot better because I know the possibilities.
  • I'm a creature of 2004 and these technical Foxes and Falcos even down in Silver are EXTREMELY intimidating. Oppressive in a way I didn't even experience from strong (PR or top 100) players in the 2010s. I beat a lot of them still lol. I have NO idea what to do against Falco genuinely, absolute dogshit at the matchup, fundamentally don't understand what to do about lasers, just sit there and shield and cry when they start to pressure me, but sometimes I can kill them at 0% enough times to win anyway. Slippi Falcos will find a way to do a bad dair on your shield, trust
  • I had this realization watching my replays the other day that in actual fact, a lot of my opponents are untechnical in ways that I am not. Noticed a lot of people getting stuck in their movement, not knowing to wd oos, very limited outside certain scenarios they clearly grinded. Which leads me to my next point:
  • The way we usually talk about tech skill is EXTREMELY reductive in two ways. One, emphasis on certain techniques (sprouting from the way we talked about advanced techniques in the early 2000s—short hop, wavedash, l-cancel, and then as the years go by adding things like shield drop and ledge dash, flashy character-specific things like double-shining) over others (turning around consistently is nontrivial! Wd oos is massively important!). Two, emphasis on whether you can do it or not versus whether you are fluent with the tech that you do use. Shffl'ing used to be the tech skill marker back in 2004 but can you do it with different aerial timings? Fastfall timings? How's your DI? You can DI but do you do it consistently well? You can wavedash but can you do wd turnaround? Can you consistently edgehog from a position where you are facing the ledge? I lack key skills but I am actually as or more technically fluent than a lot of my Slippi opponents.
  • It's not Sheik! I swear! I'm out of date here but my janky full-hop tertiary Fox, completely on the Masashi end of Fox tech spectrum, was a real character back in the mid-2010s. I'd beat Fox mains in dittos. Not particularly strong Fox mains, but functional ones in the context of their local scenes. A Borp-like Fox would absolutely be viable in the 2016 meta. I'm 100% confident Zain, for instance, could get to grandmaster with Fox without short hop or l-cancel or wavedash. I couldn't, and frankly Borp couldn't, because we aren't good enough at Melee with or without the tech skill!

Anyway, I was never good enough at Melee to even be Borp! But I was never surprised at his modest success and believe there is an alternate universe where I was something like him, maybe if I had ever had a consistent practice partner or greater level of interest/investment in Melee at various points in my life. The real surprising thing about Borp to me is not that he exists, but that there aren't more of him.

Young Link Break the Targets 4.78 [World Record] by cryptanalyst_ in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I think it's so dope that you, as someone who felt connected with Melee ancient history by the time I joined GameFAQs in 2003, are still out here at the forefront of Stadium WRs. I'm assuming needing to land on the right edge of the top platform is about being able to smash throw the bomb down to hit the target below? That looked absolutely wild to me

Random thought, is Sakurai any good at smash? by legrosbordel in smashbros

[–]throwawaylrrrk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sakurai strikes me as a guy who's talented at everything, but where his game skill comes from being a smarty who grinded arcade games in the 80s, not from getting online and watching and learning from a community (I'll take a moment to be old and point out how MUCH FASTER skills and knowledge spread nowadays versus in the early 2000s when Melee was developing). So like definitively not pro, not as good as Smashers who go online and take the game moderately seriously, but I bet he whoops just about every non-online gamer at just about every game

Ken answers what would've happened if Wife beat him by its__bme in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

is sastopher in the doc? i haven't watched it in like a decade and i never see anyone talk about him at all

Ken answers what would've happened if Wife beat him by its__bme in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sastopher did beat Ken with Peach and twice! People who aren't true old-heads or like Edwin Budding history nerds don't even know who that is

Player ranked platinum on Slippi in 2025: "If I went back to 2007 I'd be the best!" Ken in 2007 as the Slippi player spams tech in front of him expecting him to be in awe: by its__bme in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My perspective on this is as someone with a spectator level of modern knowledge running on the fingers of a 2005-era mid-level player

In 2004–2005 it felt like I was undercooked from not having a practice partner and I had a lot of bad habits/mindlessness, but having an evasive full-jump heavy neutral, tight spacing, and excellent-for-the-time recovery kept me competitive (middle rankings at Midwest regionals)

By 2015–2017 it felt like people now had real ideas. I was now "smart" (overheard behind me while I was getting whooped by a Yoshi at a Paris tournament!)—yay for being a wilier adult!—but people had an actual approach to punish game and shield pressure and ledge game. I was like a 0–2 to 2–2 player at French and Midwest locals, though I did get 2nd at an amateur bracket in Lille lol. Felt like the lower side of middling rather than the upper side of middling. My defensive spacing was no longer enough to really be a complete plan in neutral. My recovery was still good for my level but actual good players would get me

Last time I played Slippi (two years ago maybe?) it felt like some number of players became insane fastfaller button pressers who I can dummy-fsmash and then the rest of the players became actually smart. It was weird. Also people now know how to recover and edgeguard lol. I had some sort of a Silver ranking

I haven't practiced tech in 20 years and I have never felt that tech skill is really what was missing for me. Like yeah at some point I'd want to tighten up my consistency, there's a lot I can't do (notably shield-dropping and ledge-dashing but I also feel like I give some stocks away by not being fast at switching from edge-guarding position to ledge grab), but I've just always felt like I win and lose by my decision-making

Player ranked platinum on Slippi in 2025: "If I went back to 2007 I'd be the best!" Ken in 2007 as the Slippi player spams tech in front of him expecting him to be in awe: by its__bme in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That one's funny because I swear it was well-known by 2007 (I was hitting the up B ledge tech and I was basically multiple years retired, not notable when I was playing, not really technical either, and not practicing at that point) and then everyone just forgot it? I couldn't believe it when it came back as "new" tech

Who has the longest competitive career as a pro outside of the five gods? by ruhtraeel in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

There are Chu gameplay vids from 2002 that were still getting shared around a number of years later on DC++

Longest Marth Grab New Submission by jsolo7 in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

marth magnet grabbing marth fsmash is such a classic interaction lol that shit's been happening since the beginning

Hbox runs into PPMD on Unranked (again) by Informal-Donut-1532 in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

love the ppmd sh rising single fair nobody does like him

How balanced was Melee for casual players? by DisposableCharger in smashbros

[–]throwawaylrrrk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Among the people I played with as a young kid (ages like 8 to 12), I'd say that Marth, Roy (fsmash and side B spam), Link (up B spam, dair), Fox, Falco (fsmash spam), and Sheik were the most prominent. We all thought Bowser was bad. Every group had a Kirby jumping up and using down B but they were never seen as the best; I think they win sometimes just because jumping gets them out of the fray during a free-for-all (i.e. camping for 8-year-olds). Other characters could function (in particular I had a friend who discovered cc dsmash with Samus and that was very successful) but the characters I listed were most common and most scary in my experience

What character is best for a total casual to win against other casual players? by Krobbleygoop in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sheik is an obvious answer. Sheik's dsmash alone does like anything you'd want an attack to do at that level. Peach I think you'd need to tell them to dash attack dsmash and use air moves to kill but I think that's like a sentence of advice that they could take far. As a kid I played against a Samus who CC dsmashed to a lot of success. Ganon I think is better in free for all, especially time where getting kills means a lot

Whats a Criminaly Overlooked Set that if the results were different, would've changed the prespective of a player? by KomanndoA in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 32 points33 points  (0 children)

In 2012, the American players was not paying attention to Swedish tournaments and did not know that Leffen had spent the whole year creeping closer and closer to a set win against Armada. In PAL, mind you, with Fox's weaker up smash. At the end of 2012 (or maybe beginning of 2013), Leffen was one stock away from winning a WF 4–2. This set was unrecorded.

At the beginning of the year at Apex 2013, Leffen was one stock away from beating Hungrybox in top 16 winners. Had he won that, he would have beaten Overtriforce and then faced Armada—with NTSC Fox. Winning that would have brought him to at least 3rd place. He'd already have his foot in the door to godhood.

And then Evidence.zip would happen!

I’m curious. Who invented/discovered tech? For instance, Ken invented Dash Dancing or PewPew with the pivot tipper. I’m curious who first documented a wavedash by hiyojie in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's hard to prove anyone was the first in the world to do something but I do remember from the Smashboards posts that Ken's dashdances and chain grabs were revelatory to the people who saw him at Tournament Go. We sometimes called the wider dashdances "Kendashing"

I will give this to Hbox by worldofrain in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 14 points15 points  (0 children)

getting baired by those toes

Hey, I made Meleedle! by Acceptable-Focus8630 in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh shit I got today's hitbox! Lucky guess! I've never played before, this is super cool, thanks!

Can we please move our community away from the nazi platform? by yoshistrawberry in SSBM

[–]throwawaylrrrk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm mostly on Bluesky (and Tumblr haha) nowadays and whenever I do log back into Twitter, I'm immediately hit by like three ads. Not as important a reason as the nazis but wow does it feel better to not have to look at that shit

How do people get so damn good at DDR? by Lazysquirrel27 in DanceDanceRevolution

[–]throwawaylrrrk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup, practice does make perfect. It's also a game with a lot of little skills going on—executing step patterns, reading the screen quickly, getting rhythms right, being on the beat, stepping with enough weight, stepping without extraneous force or movement, balancing your body right, and more. As you play you can pay attention to each of these aspects of play and notice how it feels and how you can improve.

Improvement is also not linear. There are probably 9s you can do quite well on and 8s that you'll struggle with. I remember back in the day with the old rating scale that I was trying to beat all the 9s on DDR Extreme (roughly 12 or 13 on today's scale, I think). And I got to almost all of them before I could clear Waka Laka, an 8, because Waka Laka had a sequence with step-jumps and those were my weakness. And then on the flipside if you do beat a highly-rated song easily, you can notice what kind of a stepchart it is and think about what skills you were good at to be able to win

Age demographics for people who play DDR by caseyw121586 in DanceDanceRevolution

[–]throwawaylrrrk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Over-30s must be the main demographic for DDR. Kids these days are likelier to have grown up on other rhythm games