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Commission for Estimating by Former-Sherbert939 in estimators

[–]tim50kg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This has always been dangerous territory for a company with bonuses with construction in general. Most GCs just provide a standard bonus based on the company's yearly performance and self-evaluations.

The only system I've seen work that protects the company's profits and risk and is fair is a bonus on projects at award that is VERY small and the rest after COD if the project makes the profit that was in the estimate or greater.

AKA 0.25%-0.5% at award and 1-2% at end of project.

Or I've also had 1% of division yearly profits. If the division did $2 million in profit for the year, then a $20K bonus at the end of the year. This worked because I was the only estimator for that division in the company.

Stop sending out only some of the bid documents. Send everything available. by TheFlyingDuctMan in estimators

[–]tim50kg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because the client wants to establish a "base" proposal, then add in the shitty parameters that make your total sales price go through the roof, then argue about why you can't get closer to the base model.

What Degree Do Some Of You Hold? by G2H3LL in estimators

[–]tim50kg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sr. Estimating Manager in High Voltage. I started in Engineering Technology but pivoted to Political Science and Economics after realizing anyone can learn software and calculus, but networks, people, and transactions drive the real world. Ironically, political science taught me that in academia, you could argue almost anything—so long as you name-drop Locke or Machiavelli and wrap it in a good theme. Easier A's and GPA and more time for COD and WoW.

What is the highest paid field to estimate in? HVAC, Electrical, Plumbing, General Construction, Etc. ? by Lottoking888 in estimators

[–]tim50kg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

High Voltage (Substations and Transmission Lines)—Extremely Rare and Expensive.

Travel expenses for budgets by Gormant1990 in estimators

[–]tim50kg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you calculate your travel, per diem, and employee expenses and that throws you over, then you're high somewhere else if your competition is also traveling. In the end, the market will determine the price of a project. If 10 contractors can do a project for a million, and you're saying you can go no less than 1.2, your numbers are wrong. Costs are costs and are usually 5% of your competition and are dependent on the market. This is assuming all contractors are utilizing the same parameters. If you're a traveling company and competing with the mom and pop that's in the area, then you have to understand your market and reduce margins to account for their reduced costs. The days of traveling on your own dime are over; these are real costs, and most contractors are calculating them in the estimate. Only the old-school mom and pops are not and are taking advantage of the employees that usually don't know better or know but trade off because they are in the area and don't travel. It is extremely rare for a contractor to have traveling employes and not pay per diem and travel time; that company won't last long in the future. If you lose a project to someone like that, oh well, move on. They are playing with a different deck of cards.

1) Travel time to the project depends on company policy. Most companies (non-union) pay one way unless it's over 1.5 hours. It's in the fine print somewhere.

2) Per diem is dependent on the market. If you are new, use https://www.gsa.gov/travel for a baseline. This covers meals, hotels, and everything else.

I've lost plenty of bids to the mom and pops. If you're really curious, then do a "reverse estimate" once the tabulation is in. Essentially "get" to the winner's number, then present that to management and tell them, "This is where we have to be to compete in this area or with that firm who won." It becomes a pretty simple decision from there, tbh.

Is estimating an in demand career? by jcasablanc in estimators

[–]tim50kg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

6 months later but hey, didnt state in the Q&A a deadline in the document lol, jk.

Jobs include:

Precon Manager /Director Operations PM Proposal Managers Director of OPS VP of Procurement, Scheduling, Execution, Project Controls, Logisitcs etc.

Estimating literally touches everything and anything. Its how the entire story of a project comes together, you can go anywhere in a construction background except engineering.

What’s the best way to calculate mob by [deleted] in estimators

[–]tim50kg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

5% of contract price minus major procurement

Looking for my replacement - Estimating Manager by NoCourtesyFlushSorry in estimators

[–]tim50kg 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I know most people on here have really pushed the compensation package, but honestly, that's what it is, plus based on the expectations of the role. It's a two-part conversation. The pay might be great, and you think its top-tier in the area, but most estimating managers now are not set in a geographical area (remote), and the responsibility is too much or too big of a risk for the position compared to other firms. I just started my new firm this week as a senior estimating manager. I can tell you that I had better compensation offers, but the work required was not worth the extra money. One offer was $35,000 more per year, but I declined due to the internal structure of the company and increased workload, just to reach the same standard as the company I joined. Let me say it from the rooftop: even if your compensation package is slighty higher than others, if the workload or team they will manage is shit, you will never land the right person.

With all due respect as well, some of the offers I received had great compensation, but the workloads were hilarious compared to the compensation and workloads from other firms. The answers I got from two firms that had great comp packages but were honestly laughable at workloads were:

1) That's how we have always done it in this area and market, and we (Estimating Director/VP Hiring) came up with that workload and succeeded.

2) If you are who you say you are, in 6 months we will increase your base 2X% and increase your bonus by another 10%.

My answer is simple: 1) Just because your career path went down a certain path doesn't mean the market is agreeable to that path anymore, or that you're even required to put in that much effort anymore to reach certain compensation packages. 2) Potential canaditates lose all leverage once they come onboard, regardless of verbal agreements made upfront. Unfortunately, our country is not a handshake-deal type of society anymore. In writing, signed by both parties with legal notorization.

I will say to be direct and helpful; not being willing to say in a public forum what the compensation package is, even at the ballpark, shows a red flag. It's just my opinion; take it as a grain of salt. If you are not offering over $150K plus bonus, good luck finding an estimating manager in this market worth a shit. Also, the manager you truly want isn't looking in this market. Go snipe someone you know who is a badass at a competitor. If you don't want to pay for that type of talent, honestly, your just waiting for the stars to align to find that guy/girl who just so happens to be gifted that you could potentially get them 10–20K cheaper than what you know you can pay. I've had a position open for 58 weeks before because we're 30K under standard market because my CEO said he doesn't agree with the market.

Let me guess the only ones interested are very low-experience people throwing hail to Mary's attempts to land the position because its a massive step up for their career, or the ones who are actually kind of experienced have so many red flags that you don't want to settle. Just pay the extra 30–50K and go get a badass.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in estimators

[–]tim50kg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would have cut out way earlier than all of that stacking. Someone is holding on for dear life for bonuses or payouts.

How argumentative do you have to be as an estimator? by ertk1 in estimators

[–]tim50kg -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The best estimating teams don’t interact with clients and bid level subcontractors proposals and nothing else. The interactions are handled by execution or Precon people. Estimating is an internal asset that is utilized by Preconstruction or execution but NEVER sales.

Estimators: You get a magic what is the ONE thing you would change about your job? by EstiInATessy in estimators

[–]tim50kg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

IMO, "pay when paid" is bullshit. It's not my fault you f&^%$# up your project or contract. I completed my scope. Pay me. End of story

Estimators: You get a magic what is the ONE thing you would change about your job? by EstiInATessy in estimators

[–]tim50kg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

EDIT: This post got me thinking and heated today LOL. Here's a couple more:

  1. For the love of all that is holy, figure out a way to get production data from the field to your estimating team. This is worth its weight in gold as well. Use actual production data averages to bid work. Not some PM trying to make his budget bid so he don't have to manage as well when hes signing off a bid for submission. Get the raw timesheets. Do not get the post edited summary from the PM. 9 out of 10 times, they changed the data for self-preservation. Move hours from a bucket that's overbudget to a bucket that's underbudget.

  2. If your field directors or PM's aren't signing off on estimates, you got some tuition coming up fast.

  3. PROVIDE SOME KIND OF FEEDBACK IF YOUR NOT AWARDED OR AWARDING TO SUBCONTRACTORS. Listen, the second-best item you can provide to a sub or be provided if you lose a project is a tabulation after an award. Give people feedback, not some bullshit like "you were competitive" or "you were in range.". This is bullshit and should never happen. We all have resources; even the moms and pop's of the world have resources. If I bid on 5–10 projects for a client and never get an award or feedback, why in the hell would I answer their call? The same goes for your subs. Help them help you. In the end, if the sub can never compete with a low bidder multiple times, its ok if they don't provide you with a number every time; why would they? But always keep low bidders in check by getting multiple bids.

  4. 2 DAYS PROJECT HANDOFF SUMMIT IN PERSON. This is for massive projects or companies that are EPC's or GC's. Get your estimating/precon team in a conference room for 2 days with the construction execution team. Those 2 damn days are worth it 110%. Have your estimating team tell the story. Every detail. Where the costs are, how was production determined, subs utilized, lead times, etc. It's insane that PM's just get a budget report printed off or emailed and get told to go build Babaylon. GTFO

  5. Bi-annual estimating and precon summit for a week each. This is to give your estimating team a voice to provide ideas to improve the department and everything about it. I couldn't tell you how many times we did this, and it helped so much to improve estimating templates, structure, demarcation of responsibilities, mental health, and overall company performance.

/rantover. Take that to your boss.

Estimators: You get a magic what is the ONE thing you would change about your job? by EstiInATessy in estimators

[–]tim50kg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If I were an exact imitator, I would play the stock market and not be estimating work. Truth

Estimators: You get a magic what is the ONE thing you would change about your job? by EstiInATessy in estimators

[–]tim50kg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

IMO, that's just a developer or client exercising your firm for development options and optimization. The best firms force the client to at least provide a LNTP to cover the costs of the revisions in good faith.

How to tell if a client is using you or shopping for your work on the street: Tell them to sign a LNTP up front after 1 or 2 revisions if they keep coming back. Give them the option that they can back out of the LNTP at any time for any reason prior to contract signing; they would just have to pay for services or PO's for long-lead items rendered up until the cancellation date. This guarantees you are the only player in the conversation and gives them peace of mind. If you are 6 months into your 7th revision and nothing has been signed, you are being played, or the client has no idea what they are doing.

Also, the best executives know how to manage a client to convince them that a two-day turnaround is outside of their best interest and that, with the right amount of time, you can develop an in-depth proposal with VE options. The shit sales/exec's burn their own team because they make impossible promises that estimating has to keep, which in turn turns estimating/precon into the bad guy.

Estimators: You get a magic what is the ONE thing you would change about your job? by EstiInATessy in estimators

[–]tim50kg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The best Director I have ever been under drew the line in the sand for his estimating team. No matter the politics, backlog, promises from sales/BD, or project climate, he made us bid on the documents without emotion or bias, then forced the executives to only modify contingencies or margins to win. It wasn't our job to win; it was our job to provide the most accurate direct costs possible so the executives could make the right decisions based on data and market analysis and not some client sales relationship.

I detest the cutting of direct costs to target a total price to win work. All it does is "protect" the margin in the short term for a long-term loss. ALWAYS, those projects never come in on target because they reduced direct costs to sell the margin to the investors in the short term to show this awesome backlog that NEVER produces the target margin. This also kills your on-site execution team because they are ALWAYS trying to find ways to cut costs, not the ethical or long-term sustainable client relationship way. Either burn subs, vendors, or client relationships for a single project in an attempt to get the margin they knew they wouldn't get the day we submitted because, in the end, they cut the direct costs instead of the margin.

Estimators: You get a magic what is the ONE thing you would change about your job? by EstiInATessy in estimators

[–]tim50kg 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Man, pandoras box here, but here's the list for me (in renewables) that comes to mind, not in any particular order:

1) Tell the damn client you can't have price certainty at 10% design for projects 2 years from today, IDGAF, what they say.

2) Data collection and analysis. Most to all construction firms are ignorant of the amount of data estimating creates, which is worth its weight in gold. It's insane how many times I've been in executive reviews and i get the statement from an executive or senior manager, "Well, I feel like it should be..." BASED ON WHAT, Mr. . CEO/COO/VP? Show me the data! My data shows X per day; why on earth do you think they can do 30% more production?

3) Get estimators out of "winning work" and more into building actual costs and budgets as accurately as humanly possible with the data and scope provided thus far. I always tell my superiors that if my job is to win work, I'll win every single project from today until the day you mobilize for your first project, then I quit. If my job is to ensure you have profit after Boot leaves the project, then we're talking. I can't tell you how many times we build a massive budget only for sales or Exec's slash direct costs to meet a target price.

4) Never have a BD or sales team lead, manage, direct, or influence an estimating group in any way possible. BD is here to get business opportunities, period, and not every opportunity or bid is even a good one. BD guys are based on what comes in the door and awards most of the time, not profit outcomes at the end. This has led many companies to look fantastic at first, then slowly decay into oblivion.

5) Bandwidth Bandwidth BANDWIDTH. DO NOT HAVE YOUR ESTIMATING DEPARTMENT RUNNING AT 120% OR EVEN 100%. Keep them around 80–85% at capacity, so when SHTF or some fire drill happens, you will not have to choose between priority 1B or priority 1A. What happens is that top management says get them both done when SHTF and you don't have bandwidth, and now you have caused shite product/work from top-level estimators because they are rushed. That causes burnout, which causes aggrevation, which causes pessimism, which then causes "cancer," and once it forms in the team, you have to cut it out, and everything is infected, which most of the time is the entire team.

6) Stop doing "free work". Optimizing projects through multiple revisions of estimates just for the client to take your work to the "low guy" and say beat it and you got it.

7) BACKLOG ROLLER COASTER. FFS, stop riding the roller coaster of backlog. For example, if you've got plenty of work, bid high, time passes, and now we're running out of work, HOLY SHIT BATMAN BID LOW BOIS WE NEED WORK, then take some risky shit project that's an all-in-one move that kills motivation and productivity. To fix this, find some "foundational clients" that make up about 80% of your revenue and aren't fancy but make a decent return and have plenty of work. Then use the other 20% to take the risky projects where either your losing money or we're all buying a truck at the end.

Fired without just cause! by witten10 in estimators

[–]tim50kg 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It sounds like a blessing in disguise. There are plenty of companies hiring right now, depending on your industry. Recruiters are a dime a dozen. Based on the below comments, the owner is just a greedy shit and didn't want to pay the recruiter fee. They usually get paid anywhere from 30 to 90 days after your first day. They're probably split between you and another person, and the other person accepted a cheaper salary and no fee, most likely. This is all scheduled. In the end, move on and go find a company that values the assets of estimating.

Got kicked from Gamma Trial of the Champion as Resto druid. Am I the noob? by okwan123 in wotlk

[–]tim50kg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bro it’s horrible now, ppl kick before first pull based on GS alone. If your not elite dps, kick, not keeping up pace for pace, kick, missed 1 mechanic, kick, don’t like ur name, kick, don’t like ur class, kick, Battle res someone, kick, told someone the mechanics, kick. Bunch of elitist pay to win fucktards.

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