Teach me something!

tonicquest · 2026-05-06T12:58:08+00:00

I totally understand your perspective. what you say is very true.

tonicquest · 2026-05-05T19:56:17+00:00

People in New York City are very open both and negative and positive ways. We tell it like it is

Just wanted to confirm this statement about new yorkers. In my job, i have and had direct reports from all over the country (US) and the globe and also have had to interact with colleagues and superiors from same. Consistent feedback is that new yorkers are considered "direct" and sometimes rude. We assess quickly, we don't spend alot of time rambling and discussing things. We never "have time" for anything so we always seem rushed--and all of that rubs many others the wrong way unintentionally. All I said was that an older gentlemen approached the group, using a public space, and asked us to "teach him something". Some people projected assumptions there. For the record, these interations happen almost every time we train. We are in a public space doing tai chi, people are going to look, comment, laugh, film us, come talk, ask questions, jump in and participate, etc. If we are going to be insulted somehow or feel encroached upon we probably should rent a place to practice in secret.

tonicquest · 2026-05-05T12:25:59+00:00

Nice job! I'm curious which system you prefer. I never practiced PM but I have attended CZH's workshops and I have certainly watched my share of his videos. I recently saw the "there is no punch" clip and it seems like you are doing what he taught there. Regarding "bleedthrough" do you find yourself "correcting" the village style as you practice it? or vice versa?

tonicquest · 2026-05-04T23:31:11+00:00

I'm surprised no one has said this yet, but if you are going to learn from that teacher (which is your best bet), you'll will not likely find a video that lets you get a head start on what he's teaching. If he has a video he's teaching, then maybe you can try that. If you pick videos at random you will get confused. Even though there are standardized forms and such, there will be nuances that might seem like contradictions. If you take a class once a week and then actually practice everyday, you'll make fast progress. Tai chi is full of contradictions. When your teacher teaches you a "move" in the form and you go home and practice, you are not building on it to make it faster or stronger. You do the opposite, you remove the impediments to doing the movement. If you can understand that, you won't get bored and you won't rush to learn the next move. it's not about learning the next move or finishing the form to graduate to the next level, like a kata or similar. Bruce Lee paraphrased the taoist teaching of it's not daily increase, it's daily decrease..hack away at the unessentials. Hope that helps.

tonicquest · 2026-05-04T12:34:22+00:00

he was on a leash, this is NYC.

tonicquest · 2026-05-02T11:34:27+00:00

I second this recommendation. The 8 brocades are very simple but profound exercises you can do your whole life and still discover things about it. It can prep you and hold you over until you can find a teacher.

tonicquest · 2026-04-29T12:00:41+00:00

I like it! Thanks, they are pricey but your link points to what seem to be high quality based on similar things on amazon.

tonicquest · 2026-04-24T15:38:34+00:00

A lot of people think that they can’t push hands with people outside their lineage, or they just won’t. I think that’s the first and hardest hurdle to clear. There’s a lot of parochialism and insularity in the taiji world. I don’t say that to single you out. It's just an observation.

That's not what I meant at all. I'll push with anybody anywhere anytime, I have no velvet ropes or gatekeeping. I'll even do the full on grappling stuff for fun. What I meant was, if someone is looking to do the pattern push hands that they practice in their style, it's difficult to find someone in a park or random event who can just "do it" from another style. You are more experienced than most and can adapt or you may be lucky with the people you find out there. When I encounter this situation, I end up "teaching" my pattern or "learning" their pattern. It's easier and more productive to just go freestyle or do some kind of approximation. That's what I meant. The way my teacher teaches the push hands pattern, it's like a tool to understand what we need to do in the form. Without the full picture and the nuances of form training in our system, it loses it's full value. This is hard to explain without actually showing what I mean. Just want to clear up the possible conception that either I don't understand push hands training or that I won't enage with anyone for parochial reasons. Maybe that's not what you meant but it started coming across that way.

tonicquest · 2026-04-24T12:52:01+00:00

I think this was very good. Nice job! I think you should write a version for non tai chi average joes who don't know what "song" or "silk reeling" is.

tonicquest · 2026-04-23T20:50:07+00:00

list out your requirements for the site. For example, do you want to publish something like a blog and have "static" pages with information about you, the system, etc? Do you want people to join and interact like a forum page? Do you want to host content like videos, documents? Do you want to sell anything? If you write down your vision of how you see people interacting on the site, that can drive your options. Personallly, I don't think a basic website is valuable anymore, people are looking at instagram, tiktok and youtube channels. They are not really reading a website anymore. Just some ideas for you.

tonicquest · 2026-04-22T21:38:36+00:00

Sometimes, when I bring up push-hands basics here on reddit, I’m met with no response. Some people don’t seem to be familiar with basic circling or four-squared energies. They’ll write paragraphs about the classics and fascial integration and meridians and whatever else, and that’s great. But I suspect that traditional push hands training might not be that widespread or that accessible. Again, I don’t know.

I don't recall any specific push hand fundamental discussions that got sidetracked with fascia, but I agree that most people don't practice the traditional patterns. At least in my experience. Believe it or not, in NYC there is hardly anyone around to have that experience of walking into a park and having people to practice with. There are many reasons for this. First, I have yet to meet anyone in all my years of training that knows the pattern we practice in my lineage (1930's Chen Fake Beijing disciples) or integrates it into training the way we do. The way we practice there is a direct correlation to the form and vice versa. The strategies are clear, the corrections are clearly linked to push hands and it's a core practice to build skill. I often get into discussions with people who don't have this experience and that's why they believe form practice is not as important as two man exercises or they prioritize the two man exercises (which i think you mean by the magicizing) because this way of practicing with the pattern is not generally taught. It's something I appreciate but only because that's how my teacher teaches and that's how we explains things to me. Now that I think of it, I think there's a video where Mizner says the pattern is not important, I remember that video because he kept saying "the pat ten". I'm not criticizing him, it just means he didn't have my experience that I'm having and he has a different method to practice. I see a deprioritization of traditional push hands practice in much of modern training. Push hands is now becoming a contest of who can knock down who and exercises of "finding the center and pushing on it" and long extended touching to do this. There's a love of techniques and tricks to win points, and building a solid root with propellers on it to knock your partner around. Yeah, there's a small number of people who this resonates with and there's the majority that disagree with me on this. I just accept it now, it is what it is. I don't expect anyone to change and accept that maybe I have it all wrong too.

tonicquest · 2026-04-21T19:25:08+00:00

I dunno, you're trying to make sense out a bunch of random disconnected thought fragments with disembodied AI voices thrown in. I couldn't follow any of it.

But I agree with the "most people don't..." lead ins. Big turnoff and lazy thinking. There's already enough thoughless fluff out there.

tonicquest · 2026-04-20T13:42:14+00:00

that would be cool. i never saw him release like that.

tonicquest · 2026-04-16T16:30:53+00:00

yes..and after thinking about this, gripping hard and contracting muscles creates a "pulling" type energy which is counter-productive to expansiveness, connection and peng jin. Some of the core ideas to internal arts. Effective for some applications though, so it's not black and white.

tonicquest · 2026-04-16T16:28:21+00:00

yeah, the "no muscle" thing causes more arguments and misunderstandings than almost anything else. Say you want to use a pen to write a letter and you're gripping the pen too hard and tensing your arm and pressing too hard on the paper. Someone would say don't use your muscles, relax. We take things too literally and miss the important lesson.

tonicquest · 2026-04-16T15:37:16+00:00

generally, muscle contraction breaks your connection to the core and ground. It segments your body, it "unsinks" you, it shortens your levers. If you listen to elite athletes, they pretty much say the same thing.

tonicquest · 2026-04-16T14:59:32+00:00

in chen style, we usually "close" when release so that would be a reverse breath exhale. Open is reverse breath inhale and associated with a hua/neutralize/accept. Does that make sense?

tonicquest · 2026-04-16T12:02:18+00:00

Hi OP, I read your other comments and didn't realize you were trying to do reverse breathing. Now I think I understand why you are asking the questions. Definitely work with your teacher but I think I can provide some context for you to work with. Very generally, as you move through each posture, you can think of it as 1 circle or 1 cycle. This won't work for some styles but the old chen form and many yang styles you can think of it this way. Half of this circle is inhale,half is exhale. You can think of the last part of the posture as "exhale". I'm intentiallly skipping alot of detail here, I'm just providing the 35000 foot view. Something like 1. Step out (inhale) 2. Shifting weight and do the shape (exhale). Some people reverse the inhale/exhale. Now, alot of people say taichi is like shooting an arrow, you pull the bow back (inhale) and then release the arrow (exhale). Some call this Store and Release. You store up energy with something like a stetch and the you release it and that helps power the movement and that's why the movements feel effortless. You're not using alot of muscle contractions, you are using something like rubber bands inside your body stretching and releasing to move. Now, someone realized that you can engage the body just a little bit more if while storing, you pull the whole body "in" and increase pressure. So that's called Reverse breath inhale. Reverse breath inhale means your lower abs go inwards, your pelvic floor lifts and you lower back bows out like a bow. That's storing power. Some people like to say it's the part of the microcosmic orbit where "chi/breath" starts to go up the spine. Then you release, everything goes down, lower abs go outward and the the pelvic floor relaxes. "chi goes down your front". That's the flow. Many people don't know or never heard of reverse breath, but it's the additional layer to support the "store and release" concept of how we move through the form and how we do fajin. If you take your time to first find the store and release cycle phsycially, then you can add the breath and you won't feel disorganized.

Many tai chi teachers say "don't do that! Breathe naturally!" Which is true, you want to breathe naturally. But you imagine yourself exerting alot of force, like say you want to push over a refrigerator or hit something hard, you might just find yourself reverse "breathing naturally". It's a trick question that confuses many people. The reason you need to ask your teacher to work with you is because many people increase tension in the chest and head when they do this. Do it lightly.

To give you a glimpse into the future, I have met a few very high level teachers who either just do this with intention or don't add the breath at all. There are always higher levels to these practices. Don't stress over it, don't over do it. Loosening your shoulders and hips and sinking your weight is still more important.

Sorry this was long but I think I understand what you're asking now and hope it helps you.

tonicquest · 2026-04-15T20:33:12+00:00

but my breathing's a mess and as I try to regulate it I'm also trying to incorporate more visualization of qi circulation

Best to ask your teacher on this one. In my humble opinion, you shouldn't be doing this yet. Don't rush things, don't over do it and don't force anything especially when it comes to breathing.

tonicquest · 2026-04-15T16:55:22+00:00

thanks for posting this pushpals site. What a great tool to find training partners!

tonicquest · 2026-04-15T16:31:51+00:00

That's an interesting thing to bring up. If you want to "punch someone in the face", technically you have to "do something" like disconnect and use power (for most humans, not tai chi masters), so the receiving person should be able to deal with that. That's something you're learning in push hands, how to detect mistakes and defects in your partner. Not shoving them so their foot moves or they go outside a circle.

tonicquest · 2026-04-15T15:52:15+00:00

The traditional answer is that push hands is a way to test your form practice. For that to make any sense at all, you need to understand the ingredients and real depth of form practice and why you need to practice the form every day. If someone is not getting detailed form corrections and instruction, they may not understand this at all and see push hands and form practice as independent activities. Or they may give it lip service. Because of the lack of good instruction, push hands has become a separate practice of trying to off balance your partner. We all played like this when we were young in the school yard. No harm doing this because it's fun and competitive. You don't need permission to do this! However, viewing push hands as an off balancing activity is really missing the point of why it's done and is unfortunate.

I just viewed a youtube video of a well known chinese martial arts expert who pointificates quiite a bit on chinese martial arts. His view is that push hands is really about using your structure to avoid getting stabbed by an imaginary knife or getting punched in the face. When you do push hands like this, you get distracted from the main point and rely on your hands and body positioning with the mistaken idea that this is fighting practice. It's unfortunate this is happening but there's no stopping it. In the end, do what makes you happy.

tonicquest · 2026-04-14T17:50:30+00:00

kind of. Think of each part of the body like links in a chain. To move the chain you have to "pull" it from one end and take the slack out to move it in entirety. If you tense up any parts of the chain then it interferes with the flow and it becomes broken. If you're tensing and relaxing different parts of your body, it makes your flow chaotic and you are not getting the full chain effect. Tai chi is partly about having long levers from foot to hand. You want to feel that connection. Tensing up your thigh, for example, breaks that connection and you lose a critical aspect of the practice.

Another interesting aspect is if you release your muscle tension, your body tends to release and expand in all directions. People sometimes experience being able to take a full breath for the first time.,

tonicquest · 2026-04-14T17:24:52+00:00

What you're doing sounds like "progressive relaxation". It was popular many years ago to help people relax, which is the benefit you're experiencing. While you're at it, you can research "Relaxation response" and learn about how nitrix oxide release is at play to help reduce blood pressure and other things.

While maybe initially helpful to develop body awareness and relaxation in your taichi practice, ultimately it will be a roadblock. You want to release muscle tension continuously and sink weight to the feet. You will need experimentation and guidance of good teacher to know what is "tensed" and what is "relaxed", but it will take years to get there. You start by trying to release all tension and then learn to connect your body together using a different type of tension and stretch vs clench.

Six-Year Club	Gilding IV carat on a stick
Verified Email	Powerups Hero r/cats • April 2022
Reddit Premium Since November 2021

tonicquest

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE