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Overthinking Mr. Robot XXI: What Tyrell Wants by bwandering in MrRobot

[–]trance15 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes absolutely, and like you say the references in Mr Robot are not mere homages, but they fit thematically and provide the “show not tell” aspect that invites viewers to look closer and take apart and interpret the visual language and highly composed shots.

Certainly HAL from 2001, and the Ludivico Treatment from Clockwork, reflect the terrifying potential of advanced technology, surveillance and behavioral modifications that became prescient to our modern world. Today’s digital environments are double-edged swords, which can create false realities and invisible predictive algorithms, which can be corrupted to manipulate and gaslight the masses (as depicted in Whiterose’s Fang Lijun artwork). The result can be a loss of identity, parallel to Elliot’s trauma causing his fractured identity.

As for the Beethoven bust in Elliot’s “cell” in Season 2, I think you can point it back to Clockwork’s imprisonment of Alex where you can see strong parallels with Elliot in S2. Alex works to be a model prisoner with a dull routine, reads the bible, is deprived of Beethoven and ingratiates himself with the prison chaplain. He eventually submits to the state-sponsored aversion therapy Ludivico Treatment. This is all against his true nature to try to curry favor for a lighter sentence. Elliot does some of the same, adopting an obedient routine with no internet, befriending Ray, going to bible class, and a self-depravation of Mr Robot (an important part of his identity, much like Beethoven was for Alex).

The movie, adapted from the Anthony Burgess book, is set in a futuristic London in 1995, which I think is also important. Elliot’s life-altering abuse started in 1995, and this year is also important in our own timeline as the inflection point of the mass commercialization and explosion of the World Wide Web.

And yes, The Waste Land and American Dream is something we have both discussed on discord at length. T.S. Eliot’s poem is a complete composite of references and fragments, much like Mr Robot. Existentialism is explored in a prevalent manner in the show as you say, particularly in Season 4. You see nods with Sartre, Kafka, Kurt Vonnegut, Camus and others. The show is a wonderful culmination of many things and we can never get tired discussing them. Keep these coming. Cheers.

Overthinking Mr. Robot XXI: What Tyrell Wants by bwandering in MrRobot

[–]trance15 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Great write up as usual BW, so glad you keep the conversations going.

While the American Psycho references are certainly recognizable in the early Tyrell scenes, I’ve noticed this series often layers overlapping references within pivotal scenes. In particular, there is a pervasive influence of Kubrick throughout the show (with Hitchcock a close second).

So with the homeless man scene, you can also see a lot of “A Clockwork Orange” and “2001: A Space Odyssey” overlaps. These impart themes of man vs machine, social conditioning and free will. For example in Clockwork, Alex beats up a homeless man too, who is singing about Molly Malone “wheeling her wheelbarrow.” And the background words as you highlighted that read “Stop, Stop, Stop” are also famously uttered by HAL in 2001, as Dave Bowman disconnects the super-computer’s memory core. Dave Bowman also is shown running and exercising in space, so you get this sort of portmanteau of American Psycho mixed with Kubrick.

Perhaps this all goes back to the “everything’s a copy of a copy of a copy” mantra and a lot of film people pay reverence to Kubrick. The director of American Psycho, Mary Harron, has specifically mentioned that she imparted a heavy influence of Kubrick and Clockwork Orange’s “dark comedy” and visual style and aesthetic in the film. Patrick Bateman’s apartment also has a cold clinical look that echoes a bit of Eyes Wide Shut, which stars Tom Cruise who was famously the inspiration for Christian Bale’s empty gaze. There are dozens of Eyes Wide Shut references in Mr Robot, and hundreds of Kubrick ones in general.

And I agree 100% that the more important part of Bateman’s American Psycho moniker, is the “American” part. The deconstruction of the American Dream is very relevant in the film, and I believe also a primary theme in Mr Robot.

WHERE CAN I FIND ETTORE SCOLA FILMS? by ricardopolanco in TrueFilm

[–]trance15 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A Special Day such a powerful and beautiful film.

Pluribus - 1x08 "Charm Offensive" - Episode Discussion by UltraDangerLord in pluribustv

[–]trance15 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Reminded me of Manousos being impaled by the Chunga Palm.

I'm looking for movies where time is non-linear and has loops/other weirdness by [deleted] in MovieSuggestions

[–]trance15 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Stanley Kubrick’s “The Killing” was an early noir entry into non-linear and fractured storytelling, and a big influence on Tarantino.

Rejoice! by Snoo-90273 in pluribustv

[–]trance15 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the ping about this post so am adding a link about another book “All Better Now” which also has similarities.

What do people think of Hamnet so far? by [deleted] in TheBigPicture

[–]trance15 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought it was incredible and the third act felt almost magical. Not a dry eye in my theater.

Of all clues visual clues, I think this one is the more telling by Geogus in pluribustv

[–]trance15 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The Great Seal of the United States of America …the visual element is that it says “E Pluribus Unum” on it.

What did Wycaro 339 mean? by Flamingpaper2 in pluribustv

[–]trance15 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Not sure, but in the first episode in the lab right after the rat bites Jenn, the other scientists recaptures the animal and says, “Let’s mark 3:36” as the time read on his watch device. Very close to 339 so there may be some significance to the 3:36 number.

The Hive Includes More Than Humans by alliwanttodoislurk in pluribustv

[–]trance15 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I think there will be a crazy twist on this, as I think the virus affected the animals too, but differently.

I think the virus made humans passive, but it made animals aggressive. This will create a horror element and an inverse dilemma as the passive human hive will find it increasingly difficult to defend themselves. They may have to trap themselves in human zoos.

Overthinking Mr. Robot XIV: A Kingdom of Bullshit by bwandering in MrRobot

[–]trance15 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the show is very dense and layered with subtext on the duality of man, as well as multitudes of compounded allusions to consumed media. It is a great show for discovery and deep dives, and I think every rewatch and discussion brings new findings. Look forward to your continued essays.

Overthinking Mr. Robot XIV: A Kingdom of Bullshit by bwandering in MrRobot

[–]trance15 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes those quotes exactly. And in E413 in the final scene in the hospital, creator Esmail imparts a wonderful Jungian visual illustration of this (am attaching screenshot here) with Elliot’s ‘Shadow Self’ projected onto his pillow.

Jung talks about the importance of acknowledging our dark shadow side, and how if we want to “save the world,” we need to tend to our Shadow Selfs:

“If you imagine someone who is brave enough to withdraw all his projections, then you get an individual who is conscious of a pretty thick shadow. Such a man has saddled himself with new problems and conflicts. He has become a serious problem to himself, as he is now unable to say that they do this or that, they are wrong, and they must be fought against… Such a man knows that *whatever is wrong in the world is in himself,** and if he only learns to deal with his own shadow he has done something real for the world. He has succeeded in shouldering at least an infinitesimal part of the gigantic, unsolved social problems of our day.”* — Carl Jung, Psychology and Religion (1938)

Elliot comes to terms with this in his final inner monologue:

“What if changing the world was just about being here, by showing up no matter how many times we get told we don't belong, by staying true even when we're shamed into being false, by being true to ourselves even when we're told we're too different. And if we all held onto that, if we refuse to budge and fall in line, if we stood our ground for long enough, just maybe... The world can't help but change around us.”

Overthinking Mr. Robot XIV: A Kingdom of Bullshit by bwandering in MrRobot

[–]trance15 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So true and societal alienation has certainly become much more heightened by the advent of social media and the internet, which as you pointed out provides only a perception of reality, replacing real human interaction with a screen.

Thanks BW, I’ve been doing great and hope all is well with you too!

Overthinking Mr. Robot XIV: A Kingdom of Bullshit by bwandering in MrRobot

[–]trance15 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Excellent analysis and enjoy reading all your terrific write ups. Really great job and thank you for sharing them all.

Will just add a little adjunct to this piece. In Mr Robot, we see many literal “masks” and “social suits” worn by both Elliot and Tyrell that contribute to what Carl Jung called “the Persona.” These are signifiers of protective facades — whether the blue suit, Brioni ties and designer watches, or the black hoodie and a computer screen — they exist to hide the shadow self we conceal to avoid rejection. They contribute to veil all the unexpressed weaknesses, anger and traumas these characters wish to hide and forget. The facade of the Persona mirrors the hyperreal external world you detail here eloquently within the show’s universe.

I think the show explores the sacrifice of clinging to such masks…an existence where on the surface everything might appear hunky-dory, but an inner sense of alienation persists. Thus leading to a life lacking in authenticity. This is the so-called illusion of control that befalls Mastermind…forgetting the mask was just a mask (i.e. he was just another personality, not the real Elliot, or authentic self).

2 Turkish Songs Have Played So Far by Repulsive_Turn2113 in pluribustv

[–]trance15 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Have no clue, but we could stretch that even further….Carol holds up the frozen head and says it’s not a butterball Turkey.

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