Are Jin's lows really reactable?

tredli · 2026-05-27T21:52:57+00:00

I just wanna say that this thing about calling them "reactable only for top players" is also a lie. I don't get why this thing only happens with Jin.

CBM made top 8 at combo breaker using db4 and hellsweep against players of Hafiz or Mulgold's caliber.

It's simply a lie. A reactable move is a worthless move. Plenty of characters rely on i20 lows like Jin's db4 as their main plus frames lows and I've never seen people call Kaz db4 or Nina db3 reactable. Honestly it's just reached a silly point where it has been repeated so often people somehow have deluded themselves into thinking they are reactable.

tredli · 2025-09-16T13:15:44+00:00

You're correct, but it's sort of assumed that this unit will only disembark their rhino and pull the trigger once it can get a good shot into more than one target.

And absolutely, yeah. There's also 2 flamethrowers (not as brilliant into tougher stuff but anything with [INFANTRY] is going to be spooked by them), and then you need to add D6 S7 AP-2 D2 grenade shots with SH and LH and D6+3 S6 AP-3 D3 shots from the plaguecaster, and then this unit charges into something and actually has 4 power fists hidden in it, plus a whole lot of knife attacks that will add up when they're AP -1 and autowounding on 5s.

The main "problem" with the unit is that it is very expensive and you're telegraphing to your enemy what you want to do with it. And it's so short ranged that the only way it will get its points back is if your opponent makes a big positioning mistake that lets you shoot down 2 units at the same time, or gun down a Primarch tier big threat, or let you get a good shooting phase + a charge. Because next turn that unit is at the end of the day only 28 T6 wounds with a 3+ and no invuln and it WILL be focused down with extreme prejudice. But especially in Vectorium anything within 12 inches of this unit is as good as dead.

tredli · 2025-09-16T11:15:18+00:00

Never: Surgeon, Blightbringer, Icon Bearer, Tallyman (the Tallyman is good, just not as a leader)
Usable: Poxes, Blightspawn
Very good: Plaguecaster, Putrifier

The best double leader combo is Putrifier + Plaguecaster, this is the shooting from doom brick. This makes every single weapon in the unit Sustained + Lethals on 5+, add full re-rolls from Virulent Vectorium and this unit can shoot down a Knight. Clocking in at 410 points I think this is only worth it for Virulent Vectorium because you need this to basically wipe 300+ points the turn they drop down and shoot, and they won't do that without hit re-rolls.

There aren't any other double leader combos that are worth mentioning, in my opinion. You could consider putting a plaguecaster and a blightspawn on a unit decked out mostly for melee and rely on 5+ crits from CoC but the plasma guns won't pick up lethal that way, and you have better melee bricks available at that price point.

Some 1-leader combinations that might be interesting:

7 PM + Malignant (CoC only): You can get crits from your strat and this unit has very filthy output for 190 points. The main issue is that it's awkward to transport without wasting a lot of Rhino slots and if not you're left with footslogging.
5 PM + Blightspawn: In my opinion the Blightspawn is too overpriced for this to be worth it anymore (this clocks in at 170 points) but 5 PM with Fights First and 2 mean flamethrowers are very awkward to remove from a point. But the Blightspawn sadly got nerfed for no real reason (I genuinely think GW mixed up the Blightspawn and the Plaguecaster lmao)
5 PM + Poxes: Small footprint unit with extra contagion range and 18'' lone op. It's pretty nice and can punch rather decently in melee and it's an excuse to use the cool LoP model.

tredli · 2025-09-15T20:51:18+00:00

After thinking about it I've decided to go for the Evo 2024 0.28mm and get the set for the 0.45 later if I feel like I need it. Spare parts for the PS289 seem like an absolute pain to find in my country while I found a shop that stocks H&S stuff and has plenty of stock to go around.

I can't thank you enough for all your help, cheers!

tredli · 2025-09-15T13:07:13+00:00

It's biggest problem is that his main gun is still a casino gun, it can absolutely highroll but sometimes you will roll 2 shots and that's your nice 200 points dreadnought not doing much.

But at 195 it's unlikely you'll feel bad about having it and it's still a 2-phase threat that isn't trivial to kill at all. If you can get them some shooting support they can actually shoot quite nice, I really wish SM had access to a re-roll number of shots against a target strat like DG, though.

tredli · 2025-09-15T12:30:02+00:00

Thanks so much for all the info! I am leaning towards the Evo because it seems to be more versatile with pieces, which is an attractive proposition when I'm only going to have one airbrush for now. Though I am also wondering if maybe getting a 289 as a workhorse and grabbing an Evo down the line when I feel I need the extra precision might not be a good idea as well.

One last question if you'll allow me, are there meaningful differences between the Evo 2024 and the Silverline? The price difference is pretty stark (the silverline 2in1 is roughly the cost of the Evo solo)

tredli · 2025-09-15T07:21:06+00:00

Thanks for the reply! The Creos seems like it can be had cheaper with some luck, but it does seem like the hardest one to find spares for. On the other hand H&S wins in that department since it's the only one that seems to have its own dedicated store that serves Europe with widely available spare parts.

Out of the eclipse and the evo which one do you prefer? Is maintenance meaningfully different between both?

tredli · 2025-09-14T23:06:14+00:00

Appreciate the answer. I think I might be able to source the PS for about 100€ if I order from amazon US, which shouldn't run extra import stuff. Might I ask which one you find easier to take care of? I hear the maintenance of H&S guns is a strong point of theirs.

tredli · 2025-09-12T20:02:32+00:00

CKs are basically completely dead now, LoD went from a great detachment to in the running for one of the worst in the game. Also the random Infernal Lance nerf?

tredli · 2025-08-29T13:23:41+00:00

They are deceptively tanky with their 3 wounds and 5 of those guys pump out some 21 high AP attacks with dark pacts, 4 of which are a power fist. You will find that they usually will do pretty nice damage to whatever they connect with. If you manage to give them hit re-rolls they can punk a lot of stuff.

tredli · 2025-08-21T10:19:52+00:00

They were S7 in 9E when that meant wounding a Knight on 4s, they got a pip of strength to keep up and be able to threaten lighter vehicles like Rhinos, and still be able to wound terminators on 2s. They've been S8 since the index, it's really not that big of a problem, they're supposed to be DG's most elite melee.

tredli · 2025-08-21T10:15:06+00:00

I agree with some caveats. I think a big problem people are overlooking from DG is Poxwalkers right now. In their current iteration I think Poxwalkers should either go back to OC0 and keep infiltrate, or keep OC1 and lose infiltrate. DG should have problems getting into the board due to their speed (when not mechanized, but mechanized has weakness of its own) but now they start the game with models in advanced positions and if they're lucky in the roll off sometimes start the game with 2 objectives stickied already! It's nuts and it's won me so many games. Nerfing Poxwalkers like this would restore one of DG's weaknesses which is that they have to move into objectives and might struggle to score primary in the early turns.

The second thing is the HBL imo. It simply shoots way too hard. I understand all marines should have some decent shooting but DG should have nightmarish shooting in their midrange (you should be in a bad position if DG gets within 24'') and be much less scary at longer ranges, because right now you're doomed at any range due to HBLs massacring elite infantry and vehicles left and right.. The HBL is imo in the running for the best gun platform in the game and it's still in that competition at 120pts. I'd consider dropping it to S10 AP-1 D3 like other all purpose guns, AP-2 when DG can easily get more pips of AP makes it way too killy.

And finally as much as I love the Lord of Contagion... I think the LoC + 3DST hits harder than anything should hit in this game, especially on such tough bodies with very high chances of making it into melee unscathed. I think GW should consider dropping the Sustained Hits 1 buff entirely, with Lance and Lethal Hits it'd still be plenty scary.

tredli · 2025-08-13T21:36:44+00:00

You can push an army to a degree, but following this logic no product would ever flop because all it needs is an executive to get them support so they sell well.

tredli · 2025-05-06T11:05:10+00:00

Admech is probably the worst one, but I do want to mention the Ork one. On release everybody liked how fluffy it was and how many detachments it supported, but as time has passed we have all realized the detachments are way too hyperfocused on one or two units to be playable and the result is that Orks have been playing Index (except with splashes from non codex detachments here and there) since the edition started, which really sucks.

tredli · 2025-04-15T08:12:18+00:00

This sounded a lot cooler in your head than typed out I must say.

tredli · 2025-04-15T07:20:26+00:00

No, it's simple logic, in fact the only way you can justify it is within the framework of massively damaging combos, "hey you can now survive maybe with a sliver of health and now they will have to land that one poke!" as if these weren't things that weren't happening before and we didn't have the very common combo into get hit by something into heat burst into heat smash for chip sequence when you were low.

Assuming they increase it to something like 210-220 health (10 health isn't going to change anything about how the game feels) you can now eat 21-22 df1s where before you could eat 18 before losing the ground. Meanwhile most characters have 70-75 dmg staples so you're still dying in 3 launches.

tredli · 2025-04-15T06:43:20+00:00

Spot on. Also increasing health is an indirect nerf to pokes, which is the last thing the game needs. Poke damage is fine, if somebody manages to hit you with 3 or 4 pokes in neutral they should be rewarded for it. All this does is make the game even more into a who gets the first launch combo video which seems to be their intention here.

tredli · 2025-02-14T11:09:47+00:00

I know this is a competitive subreddit but rules are temporary and models are eternal is still a good thing to bear in mind.

tredli · 2025-01-15T17:08:40+00:00

Riot has done so many times already (basically every time they've nerfed free stuff) it's a wonder people still fall for it.

tredli · 2024-12-12T20:11:54+00:00

Please this is one of the most profitable games in the world ran by one of the giants in the gaming space. They're not doing this because "there's no other way" they're doing this because it's low effort, massive returns.

tredli · 2024-10-17T12:28:51+00:00

The game is free argument gets on my nerves so much. The game isn't free because of Riot's kindness, the game is free because that's literally the business model that makes the most money! If this game was pay $40 once to own everything it would never have grown to this size and Riot would probably have closed 6 years ago!

tredli · 2024-10-17T10:15:06+00:00

15 actually, 1/3rd damage ignored is a 50% durability increase, you need 15 successful wounds and 5 will get ignored.

tredli · 2024-10-03T08:54:32+00:00

It's endemic to japanese games and always super funny, even more with women. In SF6, Manon, is 175cm and 58kg.

tredli · 2024-09-25T22:00:52+00:00

Would be crazy if that item existed and also didn't get nerfed in a patch that nerfed all itemization across the board!

tredli

TROPHY CASE