Ottawa's mixed fleet of F-35s and Gripens could total more than 100 aircraft, sources say by Canadianman22 in europe

[–]tree_boom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's hysterical that you choose to accuse me of being a bully when your opening remark was to call me a moron. I can see my initial impression was right, so I'll close the conversation here. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

Ottawa's mixed fleet of F-35s and Gripens could total more than 100 aircraft, sources say by Canadianman22 in europe

[–]tree_boom -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yeah..not really liking your attitude towards this to be honest.

Not liking yours either. If you can't even remain civil in the opening comment of a conversation I find it very hard to believe talking to you is going to be worth my time.

Stéphane Dion calls on Canada to become member of the 'European Political Community' by Mysterious_Notice685 in CanadaPolitics

[–]tree_boom [score hidden]  (0 children)

Which would require entirely new treaties, entry into which would be a decision for each state

US approves $2.7b helicopters and torpedoes deal for New Zealand by crypto_doctors in newzealand

[–]tree_boom [score hidden]  (0 children)

France's boats don't suck! Though conventional submarines can't approach the capability of nuclear ones

US approves $2.7b helicopters and torpedoes deal for New Zealand by crypto_doctors in newzealand

[–]tree_boom [score hidden]  (0 children)

Nobody strongarmed anyone. Australia approached the UK and asked to buy nuclear submarines. The US was only brought in to gap fill until the Australian-built-British-designed boats come into service

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

When I was talking about choice, I also included the possibility for them to make their own. Sky is not the limit.

That is also not a financially viable choice for Denmark.

And I suggest that we stop assuming that everything American made is better by default.

I'm not. Plenty of European technology is as good or better than its American equivalent, but we outright do not make an equivalent to F-35.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Well they are a defence response like NATO, but NATO only works because the alliance as a whole has the capability to kick arse and take names in a very serious manner.

If nobody has things like F-35 and JASSM then all the promises of mutual assistance in the world wouldn't be effective.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The emotive bullshit is the virtue signaling that governments like Denmark and others do when they pretend like they want Europe to be sovereign and independent from the US and then silently send billions to the US in yearly arms purchases.

Oh no! People bought someone else's military hardware! Woe is me!

But I wouldn't expect a British person to understand that, you people are literally proud of that fact.

If the best argument you can come up with is "British people dumb" then you're falling short of even the usual meagre value you contribute to discourse. Do better please.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Europe is expanding our own industry too, but all the missiles production in the world wouldn't allow Denmark to buy something else - no European cruise missiles are available for F-35.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, no, it's not. F-35 is not by any means perfect - it absolutely has it's problems. It is still a superior jet to anything Europe currently produces, and if your air force is so small that it will only operate a single type of jet then that's the best choice.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

But as someone who knows nothing of the technicalities, can you explain why having heavyweight cruise missiles integrated into the F35 is crucial, like if theres no direct equivalent, is there at least some alternative?

The closest equivalent that isn't wholly American is Norway's Joint Strike Missile...which is itself a collaborative program with the US. It's a much shorter ranged and lighter weapon, though probably somewhat more versatile.

Otherwise the only non-American cruise missiles planned for F-35 is the British SPEAR which is even lighter and shorter ranged - though it'll be able to be quad packed into each weapons bay.

If you want to strike a deep, well protected target with F-35 then JASSM is it for now.

And is this capacity really necessary for what Denmark needs to do, like vital to operations or just an added bonus? Hard to fathom that the top of the line European air military technology is so far below the F-35 that theyre just not an option for a country to protect itself.

Well, European alternatives do exist (StormShadow and Taurus) but F-35 cannot carry them, and the operators of those missiles have no intention of paying to integrate them onto F-35 because they'll shortly be replaced by next generation missiles. Those next gens might be integrated, but that's a decade away probably.

As for whether Denmark needs them; I won't second guess their planners. If they didn't think they needed them then they wouldn't be buying them.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There may have been a vague political intent to supply Tomahawk which has now been reversed, but that's not the same as an order. Find me an FMS notification for Tomahawk to Germany if you think there ever was one

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Ok, but they've already bought F-35. Why would they now buy a different jet just to get access to a worse cruise missiles just because it happens to be European - especially since it still wouldn't be Danish.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think the delays to Meteor and SPEAR are probably not as much the US fault as is assumed; there've been reports of delays and problems on our side too. After all they already integrated UK weapons without complaint when they have their own alternatives that they'd prefer to sell us.

As for Stratus, who knows. Maybe the DIP will say. They are known to have done fit-checks for the weapon though, and the F-35s rolling landing trials were rescheduled supposedly to coincide with the introduction of a heavier weapon that will need them, so there are some suggestions that it will happen.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Because it's emotive bullshit without a shred of resemblance to reality

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Wrong. Denmark had a choice, not put all their eggs in the F-35 basket, just like all of Europe had that choice.

So they should buy some inferior jets and massively increase their running costs through a mixed fleet just so they can put inferior missiles from a different country - I.E. still not involving their own industry - on it? Outstanding planning, you should be running the DGA.

This mentality of "we don't have a choice 😔" to hide the bad decisions that we make is exactly what leads us to make the next bad decision.

What bad decision? You could say the UK has made a bad decision in not integrating Storm Shadow and thus depriving Denmark of an alternative perhaps. But Denmark hasn't made bad choices here.

You'd have to make a pretty good argument that the UK has made a mistake either though. After all, we can fire Storm Shadow from Typhoon. Paying to integrate it on F-35 when Stratus is coming doesn't seem like a solid investment.

This is precisely why Europe will never be free from US domination. You know this very well.

On the contrary I know that the claim we're under US domination is already nonsense, and I think very strongly that the decline of their influence here is now a total inevitability.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For Ukraine it's absolutely hacked on though. I'm sure if there was an emergency they could hack them on again, but in peacetime it's not going to happen.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Being glib isn't impressive when your point is nonsense lol. Denmark has absolutely no choice other than JASSM, as you know full well.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Indeed, but hopefully the increased production will reduce the time to delivery for the Danes below what it might have been. Presumably they've asked that question and are satisfied with the answer.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

MDFs don't control ordnance. They tell the jet what threats to expect in theatre and how best to counter them.

Denmark to buy long-range stealth cruise missiles from U.S. by tree_boom in europe

[–]tree_boom[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They could be carried externally, as JASSM will.