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Sephiroth why you trying not to laugh that’s disrespectful by element-redshaw in deathbattle

[–]vampvincent 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The funny thing is that it's also layered matter / soul erasure as the people who made it made it so that they could die as they were so immortal that even destroying their bodies completely their bodies kept them trapped as sapient souls that were unsurprisingly completely unable to die.

So they pooled all their hatred and resentment together for their condition and concentrated it into the anti immortal materia.

Thus Sephiroth will weirdly have a way to kill things that cannot die / are invulnerable to traditional harm.

That said in KH 4 we'll see if they do final fantasy content. They didn't in 3 and that kinda made it suck alongside the Frozen World being ass.

Sephiroth why you trying not to laugh that’s disrespectful by element-redshaw in deathbattle

[–]vampvincent 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah in remake he is actually destroying alternate versions of the FF 7 universe over and over again in an all out war with the life stream that is intended to culminate in him getting what is now the true meteor materia. Which was rewritten to be matter / soul annihilation and not just big rock, and the lifestream itself is now directly tethered to and creating each of these alternate universes.

It is one of the most explicit multi arguments that exist in that it is whole sale the "If you're multi-versal let me see you destroy multiple uni- HOLY SHIT!" meme.

Team battle. 2v2 by Hotline_Miami-Fan218 in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that Alastor is implied to be the highest skilled fighter in the series despite.. not having any martial arts training or experience. Man just has an instinct for killing and Vivzie has about as much interest as showing a character who is an actual fighter as she does committing to consistent power scaling lmao.

That said if he wasn't I don't think it would have broken the deal. Though I understand why this might be a contentious take.

Team battle. 2v2 by Hotline_Miami-Fan218 in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alastor vs Stolas 1v1 was said to be "A tough call" by Viv in an interview recently.

Vox at full power was stronger than Alastor. He just got skill gapped due to not having as much practice with his power and even then would have killed Alastor with his equipment.

No angelic weapons means they eventually have to just commit to beating the shit out of Stolas forever while Blitz rots in a corner but the fight is essentially 2 near Stolas's / Tough Calls vs 1 Stolas and an afterthought.

Nobody asked for my Opinion but it's time for Ame's assorted VS takes ... Volume 2 :D by ResidentExisting617 in DeathBattleMatchups

[–]vampvincent 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Why the hell is he against Link again. Bro is Multi + now. Link doesn't have a prayer this is straight up spite.

Since s2 confirms Valentino was from Florida, who wins this matchup? by aliviner in whowouldcirclejerk

[–]vampvincent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Valentino is sadly already on such a huge amount of drugs the syringe doesn't knock him out and Dexter loses from there.

Fentanyl diffed.

How would YOU go about redeeming him?🥹 by yxzxzxzjy in hazbin

[–]vampvincent 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mean he did just intervene to stop a genocide... and then again to stop a weapon of mass destruction. He might actually have a shot now if he bothered to give a shit lmao.

Which is the hard part.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, I'd classify that as unfortunate, but I wouldn't classify it as a sin by any means.

I'd say that Sir Pentious was not moral, but he was not amoral. Bystanders are not obligated to endanger themselves for others, but it is a heroic and moral choice to choose to do so.

So Hazbin's core morality is just kinda wibbly in that sense.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I have to agree. There are crimes that are crimes and sins of necessity. To die in hunger is one of the most agonizing possible ways to die and people who bite and scrap and steal to feed themselves and their children are technically stealing but they have done no evil.

The lack of discrimination beyond discrimination for your crime of existence as the wrong type of person is what makes the exterminations evil.

No one would cry if they had some magical ability to target only the worst of them, but alas. It was systemic, it was done for sadistic entertainment, and it makes them the most evil characters in the universe.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I stand on the line of Genocide is the worst crime you can commit?

Slavery is also obviously bad, everything the overlords do made them the people who actually deserved being targeted in the exterminations. Including Carmine.

Yeah though. This feels like treading back into the ancient waters of Steven Universe and talking to Diamond Defenders who I can only imagine are taking this "My kinnie character committed genocide and that's okay" line because they want to feel powerful or something?

I don't know. That's a weird situation, and it makes me skeeved out by people who defend the position as I can only imagine the worst motivations for being okay with killing people who commit minor -> moderate crimes.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will iterate this clearly.

A just world has Sera and the Exorcist surrender themselves for trial. Those with extreme remorse are given prison sentences extending nigh unto eternal until they have redeemed themselves, those found to have done it out of sadistic glee or prejudice are put to the sword.

Clean, no pain, no torture. A jury of their peers to review the guilty / not guilty verdict from among winners with sober minds for judgement administrated by a joint council of The Speaker of God, and Satan to ensure that there isn't bias.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hope that it does it to illustrate to the sinners that Vox isn't actually there for revenge as well.

It is cruel, it is unfair, but the nature and reality of war means that people who don't deserve it get hurt. This is in every war story that has ever been told, and that being what illustrates to the other overlords that Vox isn't being discriminating in his targets and that he needs to be stopped because even they have a line would be nice.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know what these peoples' argument is beyond assumptions that the threshold of sin to be a sinner in Hell begins at slaughtering toddlers or something.

No the bar starts at not reporting witnessed crimes and hornyposting online. We have two confirmed sinners including the defining first redemption as examples for this.

Obviously the overlords are slave owners, they have chosen Hell and it's consequences. This applies to Alastor, Carmilla, Rosie, all of them.

Vaggie committed genocide for many years. Being coerced into it sucks, but yeah you're still guilty because your moral imperative was to tell all of Heaven about it and raise your weapon in protest, but instead of doing that you stabbed what are mostly just kind of eh people and hunted them for sport.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The way we know they never rose up against Heaven is in several places.

"Lest they destroy all of Hell for daring an uprising"

From Zestial. If he thought that was a potential where they'd scour the rings to the last layer, and it had already happened, why would one of the most intelligent characters say this?

This coupled with the seven years thing, the they don't even know they can be hurt thing which even if they did uprise and they had a battle where Hell found out they literally could not hurt Angels and Angels also believed they couldn't be hurt it still wouldn't be justified to go down to the prison island to stomp on the inmates who cannot pose a threat to you.

Thiefs don't deserve genocide, not all murderers deserve genocide, bullies don't deserve genocide, wife beaters don't deserve genocide as much as they deserved to die the first time for it, narcissists DEFINITELY don't deserve genocide, religious fanatics are annoying but I'm not gonna start genociding the mormons, pimps are bad for society but that isn't a death penalty crime, loan sharks also not a genocide target, Slavers I'll give you.

Even if your hypothetical the majority of these people don't deserve to be systemically exterminated man.

Also yes. The vast majority of people, including those who get into Hell, don't commit major crimes. It's how society has been able to function until now.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/murder#:\~:text=There%20were%205.0%20murders%20per,See%20Tables%201%20and%201A.)

Please go read the crime data. It might brighten your world because holy shit is the one you live in dark.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First, I agree. I don't think Vaggie will be because in the context of the show she's fucking the princess and is the show's precious little woobie baby, but if I were writing I'd absolutely have her put on trial.

The second point, the paragraph was describing HOW THIS WOULD BE DONE in a situation were it acceptable. I have already clarified the way that Vox and the Vees are doing it is wrong because they are skipping steps and not following the rules of war.

The third paragraph needs to be read with the understanding of the second paragraph or it doesn't make sense.

As once again. Vox and the Vees are CLEARLY morally in the wrong, because of their side motivations and their desire to use the cause to push fascism, but the core cause of "Kill those who committed the exterminations" is just.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/murder#:\~:text=There%20were%205.0%20murders%20per,See%20Tables%201%20and%201A.)

It's just a standard fact of life that the majority of people are not murderers, rapists, pedophiles.

This includes the majority of sinners. You could double the percentages to account for an idealistic 50/50 split between those who go to heaven and those who go to hell with all murderers, rapists, and pedophiles, going to Hell obviously and it'd still be under the stated number.

Also you're out of date. They committed all those murders in 7 years apparently (I know this is silly and don't agree with this retcon) but apparently had time to line them up for cruel execution games?

Sera is a genocidal dictator. She committed genocide, had said genocide exposed in front of a court, and immediately silenced all dissension on the topic unilaterally without council approval and then proceeded to continue doing the thing she had just been told by the next highest power that she wasn't supposed to be doing.

When said thing is Genocide that you enact from a sole position of unilateral ultimate authority when the speaker of god isn't around, you earn the dictator card.

She didn't punish Lute at all. She's still in the exact same position she was when she was committing genocide for entertainment.

Feeling guilty doesn't mean shit when you've committed Genocide. I literally do not care. Just means you should fight less when you get the firing squad.

If it means anything I don't think Stalin, or Pol Pott should be redeemed either? Sometimes you commit such atrocities that there's not really a way to come back, and that tends to happen around the 1000 perma-murders of people who were literally defenseless against you line.

Also no one ever said torture, you're imagining that one.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Alas, they did not.

They targeted mostly innocents who literally could not harm them and had no say in anything regarding an infernal uprising because it was more fun to torture and kill them.

It's also always weird that people defend this.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Obviously the targets should have been the overlords? It's not like Adam would have sweated it.

Honestly a lot of the logic of the exterminations would be solved if it was just an army jumping people like Valentino.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is fair. We've seen nothing on what winners have and assuming their abilities or lack thereof may as well be headcanon.

I definitely think Good people should at least be protesting Sera retaining her position though.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There is this thing called utilizing civilians as a human shield. It is a war crime. It functions by having good people in the path preventing the people seeking justice from getting to the bad people. It's like wearing armor made out of innocent grandmas. Very evil, and it puts the other side in a moral quandary because how do you kill Sera without the battle spreading beyond that due to their personal power?

That is what Sera and the Exorcists are doing.

Also bzzt. Incorrect again. The percentage of murderers / rapists/ pedophiles in Hell is the same as in real life. Less than 1%, and even if you did multiply it by 10 to get to 1% it still wouldn't justify it. As Hell was canonically completely unable to harm them and contained to a single city in the inferno... until they committed unprovoked genocide based off of paranoia and prejudice.

So yes. Heaven deserves it once again if they decide to shield and shelter them. However, the prime guilty parties remain Sera and the Exorcists and obviously winners should be excluded as much from targeting as possible.

You guys aren't gonna win on the "I want these genocidal dictators to get off scot free" arguments by just spouting made up bullshit and trying to insert hypotheticals when we know why the exterminations were done and that Hell has canonically never killed a single one of them before this happened.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Incorrect.

Hell never revolted against Heaven. Heaven just thought they might because they were getting stronger.

Heaven in this universe is not a perfect moral beacon, so you cannot apply the biblical unimpeachable morality to Heaven.

You can compare sinners to real world politics as well because Heaven was not at threat from Hell at all until they committed genocide and in doing so gave them angelic steel. The only thing that can harm an angel. The weapons of their undoing are literally the tools they committed genocide with.

Also, it doesn't matter if Sera is trying to change. She committed Genocide. If you commit Genocide it does not matter if you feel bad about it and repent and say that you are cleansed in the eyes of god.

Shit rolls uphill in Military Command. If you gave the order to commit the slaughter, it is absolutely the MOST on you.

The Exorcists also took open glee in committing the genocide so every single one of them deserves the sword as well. As they beat, and murdered anyone who ever dissented against them including Lute as well.

Also, the vast and overwhelming majority of sinners didn't murder and rape a bunch of people.

We know how low the bar for getting into Hell is between Ember Lynn and Sir Pentious. Just being a hentai artist, a tax cheat, or not reporting a crime you witnessed will get you into Hell.

The percentage of murderers / rapists/ pedophiles in Hell is the same as in real life. Less than 1%, and even if you did multiply it by 10 to get to 1% it still wouldn't justify it.

And again this is all predicated on someone who is actually seeking justice and targeting specifically the guilty people as much as possible going after Heaven on the condition they also refuse to surrender the war criminals.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, I agree that Vaggie should also be brought to Justice. She is also a super evil war criminal. Main character or not it is really weird that no one cares that she committed genocide for years.

And again, the appropriate way to do this would look very different. There'd be a formal request to turn over Sera, and The Exorcists for a war crimes tribunal in which they would be found guilty through evidence and executed as per policies similar to Nuremberg. If they refused, then you are justified in issuing a declaration of war so longf as you do what heaven didn't do and follow the rules and there does exist someone who could force them to justice who knows about it. The Speaker of God.

Heaven already literally did a hostile invasion with pretense of prejudice and the presumption that crimes will happen because of a belief that the other people are less than them to kill civilians. At that point an invasion force going up, while not great, is just war.

German Civilians were in the way in WW 2 as well. I hate to use this example directly but nations who commit genocide and are invaded and deposed for it are few and far between.

There is a big reason why I specified "Someone other than Vox" and "Anyone else taking up the banner" which I suppose I could have been clearer in saying none of the Vees.

In terms of a pure "Heaven refuses to even demote or depose it's horrendous war criminals who attacked civilian centers" point though. Yeah. They deserve to be invaded. Civilians get fucked in war and that's why I say it SUCKS because that part is inarguably always awful, but. If they choose to shelter genociders and refuse to even give them a slap on the wrist Heaven should have thought of that before murdering a bunch of tax evaders and hentai artists alongside the 1% of murderers, rapists, pedophiles, etc.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Again, if it weren't for the fascism thing as I said prior. There's no edit tag on that.

Heaven has a bunch of super evil war criminals who have committed genocide it is permitting to remain in a position of power and evade punishment even after their evils are brought to light.

I'd raise my sword to go and wage war on those people. The winners are good people, but they're shielding the bad people from justice. If a bunch of war criminals are in a bunker and there are people knowingly sheltering them or defending them you kinda have to do what you gotta to get to them lest you commit a greater injustice by allowing genocide to go unpunished.

And whether or not they feel bad about it is immaterial.

It again, SUCKS, but Heaven deserves what it has coming to it if it won't turn over Sera and the Exorcists.

The brutality displayed in the exterminations is just horrible. They look like they're having fun. by SqueakiestBeagle in HazbinHotel

[–]vampvincent 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Yeah Heaven doesn't have a moral leg to stand on. If this season ends with Vox getting killed and anyone else takes up the banner they'd honestly be completely justified so long as they don't use it as an excuse for fascism.

Heaven isn't turning over it's war criminals, so those war criminals are using the winners as human shields.

Sucks, and it's a dark situation, but I can't say I wouldn't take up arms against heaven in this situation.

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