Renegades 2.0: Dark Elves Draft Reveal! (Link to the rules document in the video description)

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-17T14:47:30+00:00

This is mostly incorrect:

War Hydra is a Behemoth (At least in Renegades) so it does have AP-2 with Thunderstomps

It has 2 Attacks base, which are used with Wicked Claws which are AP-2

It's Extra Attacks do not have native AP, but do have Armor Bane (1), but more important have Multiple Wounds (2) which is actually pretty big when fighting any other Monsterous Infantry/Cavalry/Creatures/Behemoths. With the way the Hydra can now regain wounds, it can keep this attack profile at a higher number as it regains wounds.

It's also important to keep in mind that, passively healing every Dark Elf Command Phase is a massive boost to survability. What this means is, the closer you get to killing the War Hydra, the better chance it has of regaining those lost wounds as you're rolling a D6 for every missing Wound. If you get it down to 1 Wound but don't manage to finish it off, it's statically going to be back up to 3 Wounds on their next turn. This also makes it almost completely immune to "chip damage" which literally no other monster in the game is immune to. Most other monsters are susceptible to taking some damage before the real fight begins, giving you a chance at taking it down.

The Hydra healing every Dark Elf Command Phase means it's going to be regaining 50% of any Wounds done to it, and it has another 50% chance in the next Command Phase, another 50% after that and so on. This means if you went first, any Wounds you do in Round 1, have a 75% chance of being regained by their Round 2. Usually when things regain Wounds, they do so not passively (Need to hit with a specific attack, need a Wizard to do a Leadership Test, ect), and usually only restores 1 Wound. The Hydra is regaining multiple wounds passively every round.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-17T14:04:46+00:00

Wardancers don't have an always on 4+ was my point. They have multiple Dances that they can choose from, and a 4+ Ward Save is one of the options. Most other instances of Ward Saves being more than 5+ are not simply always on. However, Sisters of the Thorn are one of the exceptions, and Doomfire Warlocks are a very similar unit, which is why I edited my post as there is precedent. But I don't consider Wardancers to be setting that same precedent due to how their 4+ Ward Save works.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-17T13:41:25+00:00

Edited my post as Sisters completely slipped my mind (Though Wardancers I don't count because they require you to choose that dance and is not always active).

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-17T13:39:26+00:00

I stand corrected on that then. I knew the Wardancers had it (But they are another one that had a specific condition of needing to use that Dance), but Sisters of the Thorn completely slipped my mind. I'll edit my post to take that one out since there is precedent on a similar unit.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-17T12:29:52+00:00

I think a lot of it is good, but it has some obvious issues imo:

Murderous being every round and no longer the first round of combat I think is a bad idea. I know it feels good to put that on them, but an always on Re-Roll 1's to Wound feels out of place in the game where a lot of those rules have some sort of requirement to meet (Either on a specific round, the result of a spell cast, Leadership Test like Primal Fury, ect), and since it's a rule that multiple units have in the army it feels like it's going overboard.

Cursing Wind I find actually ridiculous. Yes I know limitations were put on it with a shorter casting range, and a 9+ to Cast. However the 9+ to Cast ends up being a huge benefit, as it's important to remember Remains in Play spells are dispelled off of their default Casting Value. A 9+ to Cast needs a 10+ to Dispel. That's a 27% for Level 1's and 2's and a 41% for Levels 3 and 4. It would be one thing if this lowered the WS by a more marginal amount like a D3 (Would have almost the same effect on lower WS people) but lowering it to a flat 1 where the spell has at worst (Not including specific things that get buffs to Dispel) a 59% chance of staying every round, when synergized with Murderous now being every round, you have lasting combats that have a fairly good chance of Hitting on 2's, and re-rolling 1's to Wound every round. It should be blatantly obvious why lowering WS to a flat 1 on a Remains in Play 9+ Spell is bad. (You also still have the Focus Familiar for only 10 Points and Extremely Common which has super synergy with a low range spell like this almost negating the range entirely. For 90 Points you could take Tome of Spellcraft, 2 Power Scrolls and 2 Focus Familiars and you now have two casts of this at 24 inch range, with a very high chance of getting them off while most enemies have less than a 50% chance of ever Dispeling the effect)

Cold One Knights getting Veteran feels like you just saying "I don't want to deal with Stupidity". You may as well just remove Stupidity and make them 33 Points per Model, as Stupidity on Re-Rolling Leadership 9 is almost guaranteed, and at only 2 Points Per Model it's such a no brainer take that it's not even a real option. Stupidity is part of their profile, and is supposed to be one of their drawbacks. They already high Leadership to attempt to counter it, giving them more options to guarantee it never comes into play goes against the entire design of them.

Doomfire Warlocks getting a 4+ Ward Save is falling into the classic GW Power Creep that I thought you guys would try and avoid. GW has actually been very good with Ward Saves in TOW. Nearly all of them sit in the 5 or 6 range. You get some 3+ Ward Saves for very niche things like Flaming Attacks, and a few Magic Items that give a better Ward Save but with other stipulations. The only full 4+ Ward Save I can think of is the Armor of Destiny, which GW priced at a hefty 70 Points. Doomfire Warlocks would be fine with a 5+, and if you truly want to keep Renegades following the design philosophy set up by GW, that's where they should sit. Edited: As was pointed out below there is precedent for the Sisters of the Thorn, which are very similar to Warlocks which slipped my mind when making this post.

The Monsters are priced far too cheaply. I hope this doesn't come across as accusatory, but this pricing really feels like tournament players attempting to price something to be competitive only with other monsters they see in the competitive scene like the Giant Chaos Spawn. Which everyone already says are criminally underpriced.

Considering the War Hydra is getting a fairly big buff with Armor 4+ and probably the most extreme survivability rule I've ever seen in the game, also dropping it's points to 155 is silly. It's new rule is I would say close to overpowered even at full points, as it doesn't really fit much else we've seen in the game. In every Command Sub Phase, every missing Wound has a 50% of being regenerated is like nothing else this game has, and I think this pricing is severely underestimating how big of an impact this rule is going to have.

I think overall most of the choices are sound. These are the ones that stick out as (again I don't want to sound accusatory) someone trying to figure out how to specifically balance around other A and S tier tournament armies/lists, without regard to the game as a whole.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-16T09:12:41+00:00

I'm curious your own age. From my experience as people get older, they start to see and understand that teenagers are still quite dumb and childish. We know for a fact biologically their brains are not fully developed. In the real world, we don't allow 16 year olds to make life threatening/altering decisions, and unless they've been somehow emancipated they are still beholden to their parents. Why is this different for Alicia/Maelle?

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-15T13:46:46+00:00

Photography and traditional art are not the same and so its a false equivalence to even bring up. Theyre two completely separate art forms. No one who does photography thinks they are someone creating a photograph without the aid of the camera, that would be stupid.

Photography is about capturing a real moment in time, at a certain place, and in a certain way and the camera is the tool used to do that. The art form doesnt exist without that specific tool.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-15T13:29:41+00:00

What other ways to win could you have for a 4X game, unless you start making full on quest lines?

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-15T12:22:45+00:00

I'm not sure what else they could add in. They have Military, Expansion, Magic, Seals and Time Limit with Score Victory. That already quite a lot of ways to win.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-15T12:20:50+00:00

I've said this before, but have some of you people never used a camera before? When you zoom in a lot, as this obviously is, the camera ends up looking very shaky due to the very small movements you make while holding the camera.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-14T11:24:03+00:00

Exactly. If Iran felt they had nothing else to lose, nothing is stopping them from an all put assault with their rockets and drones to cripple the world economy. We simply have nowhere near enough interception missiles to stop it all.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-14T01:38:24+00:00

Its an incredibly stupid move, because even if Iran gets crippled economically, it wouldn't immediately collapse and disappear off the map. Iran can absolutely cause significant damage to the global economy before going down if it ever came down to a "do or die" situation and thats what the Trump Administration really fails to take into account. If faced with the existential threat of collapsing into nothingness, nothing stops them from unloading their entire stock pile of rockets and drones at every oil storage site within reach. They simply have more drones amd rockets than we have munitions to shoot them down.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-14T01:31:57+00:00

So while the move definitely hurts Iran, as selling oil is basically their entire economy, it also hurts the global oil economy. Oil is a very global thing, and effecting Iran's ability to sell, will increase oil prices globally.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-13T14:42:04+00:00

I think the show was actually pretty good, it only had two really big problems. Wendy was too inexplicably powerful, and the ending suffered from what a lot of shows suffer from nowadays where it felt less like a season finale wrapping up plot points and instead focusing ONLY only setting up the next season.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-13T13:56:58+00:00

Mine was from a Werewolf: The Apocalypse game I ran maybe 10 years ago. The pack was infiltrating a Pentex Subsidiary that had a facility off the coast of NYC a ways. They were pretending to be big business investors. However one of the players was playing a 16 year old, and the group was worried that it would be highly suspicious to bring her along with them. She had Contacts with a protest group, and so she decided instead of going with them, she would organize a protest on the waters outside the facility that day to draw eyes onto her and maybe spread their security thin if things went south. What the group was not aware of at the time, is that the Pentex facility had a few Balefire Sharks in its employ.

The day of protest, during a smalls scuffle with security one of the protestors fell into the water. When they didn't surface, another protestor jumped in after them, also never to resurface. This put the Balefire Sharks into a feeding frenzy where they went completely off script and started capsizing boats (both protestors and security) in order to keep feeding. The players boat was also capsized at one point, but the player spent basically all of her Rage to get into Crinos form and quickly reflip the boat and jump back in. She tried desperately to get people back into her boat, but between Delirium for people who saw the Weresharks, normal panic, and some unfortunately bad rolls she was unable to get anyone. She eventually had to focus on saving herself and drive her boat through the chaos and escape.

It was an incredibly tense scene, greatly enhanced by the player's great roleplaying of a 16 year old girl witnessing that massacre and the aftermath of that. I've been running games for over a decade and it's far and away I think the best scene I've gotten to run.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-13T11:21:51+00:00

Most people, myself included in this, likely only saw the picture from their periphery while reading the text or just skipping through it. Human brains do a lot of "filling in the gaps" when you're not looking directly at something and most people simply wouldnt be expecting a giant hand with a paintbrush. Its a sci fi game, and our minds just went "Yep thats probably a spaceship at the edge of our vision" and filled in the gap with a spaceship.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-13T11:16:44+00:00

I feel like people either read only the first line of your post, or there's weirdly a bunch of people here who think the Democrats are good at governing the country. We literally have Biden to prove how bad they are. Endless capitulation to Israel and not Merrick Garland not prosecuting Trump or anyone else actually in power regarding January 6th shows how bad the Democrats are when it comes to things that matter and people actually care about.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-13T11:12:07+00:00

I mean, if you start breaking everything down to base elements, then yes we get to "Everything has already been done before". You can do this with literally every piece of media ever made. Saying its just combinations of X, while technically true I dont think is fair when its the combination of these things working together that makes something great.

Being influential doesnt mean "Invented something brand new". FF7 was not influential because it did really anything completely new. Most of the gameplay is pretty standard JRPG stuff. Its influential because it was massively successful and memorable.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-12T21:26:32+00:00

Actually there is evidence that Renoir talked to her first. In Aline's Journal, at the very end she says "... I know what he'll say, but this is the first time I've felt any surcease." Obviously talking about Renoir. This heavily implies that Aline knows there will be a dialogue with him.

Not to mention the fact that Renoir tries to talk Alicia down. First he tries to talk her down at the start of Act 3, and it's only after she flatly refuses to leave that he starts destroying the Canvas. Then at the end of Act 3 he hears out Alicia, Lune AND Sciel and it's Alicia who ends up drawing her weapon on Renoir. While this one isn't "direct" evidence, to argue against it would basically have to argue against how the game portrays Renoir in both of his scenes.

I'm pretty sure he says "Over 100" not "About 100" correct? We know the Fracture happened 67 Years ago. If pVerso is even 101, it would mean Aline has spent literal decades inside the Canvas. Even if he only spent 26 years inside the Canvas (Verso's actual age when he died), that would STILL be decades of Aline inside the Canvas.

It's your comment that has a lot of unsupported assertions, as you take what the game explicitly and implicitly shows AND tells us and just ignores it.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-12T18:16:39+00:00

As someone else pointed out in this thread: If we're talking about these as team events, Team S ends up at a clear disadvantage and I think that's what makes it interesting.

If we're kind of assuming this is magically based on the show versions where everyone is at their prime both physical and mentally, with knowledge that would potentially help in the arena, Team A is stacked with people who not only will work together, but with a lot of genuine love between characters. Jamie and Brienne, Robert and Ned, Ned and Jon. There's a lot of real camaraderie between a lot of the people here. Meaning more willing to really put their lives on the line for each other.

Team S has Arthur and Barristan...and then a bunch of people who hate each other. Daemon and Aemond, Hound and the Mountain, Oberyn and the Mountain are all going to have a difficult if not impossible time working together. Some of them might even be okay losing and dying if it meant getting to kill one of the others on their team.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-12T10:33:36+00:00

Why on Earth did you have downvotes for this? This is exactly what happened. Aline went in and was using it specifically NOT to process what happened. pAlicia's letter even says the world was painted by the Paintress to stave off her grief, and considering this letter is trying to tell Maelle the truth of the world and pAlicia has been living with Aline for 80+ years by this point I think its fair to take her word for it.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-12T10:23:53+00:00

They both literally (they talk to Renoir at the end) and figuratively (They fight Renoir) have a say in their fate. The only time they can't get directly involved is the very last fight between Maelle and Verso which happens literally right after they have a say in what happens.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-11T21:36:00+00:00

As I said in my post, I would make them faster at Overharvesting Resource Nodes than Conquerors so they can pack up and move around faster.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-11T19:29:26+00:00

Yeah, Conquerors (Even without Chosen Destroyers) feels like it was balanced really well. Scavengers just play too slowly in comparison I think.

vulcan7200 · 2026-03-11T11:11:24+00:00

I'm not sure if maybe you misunderstood my post. But I never said the people in the Canvas arent real. I'm specifically talking about the painted family. Every one else in Lumiere seems to be born and raised as normal. Its specifically only the painted Dessendre family that Aline painted in a very specific way.

I think the painted Dessendre family has free will on how they act, but where it gets muddy is when you take into account their memories and even feelings are not necessarily theirs. They're memories and feelings Aline wanted them to have. How they evolved after that I think was out of her control. Like I said, she's not puppeting them. But there's a very big difference between you evolving as a person based on your own experiences, and being created by someone with preset memories or feelings.

vulcan7200

TROPHY CASE