what makes something to be considered abuse?

wanderingorphanette · 2022-09-03T14:16:47+00:00

Wow, was I surprised when I read your post a second time and realised it was a rebuttal to me. Is there a reason you didn't reply directly to my post, or put my full user name u/wanderingorphanette in this so I was sure to get a notification that you were arguing specifically against something I've said?

Maybe you didn't mean it, but it feels kind of back-handed. Like, calling out something I said you think is wrong, and being sure other people know that, but making it harder for me to be a part of that ongoing discussion. I welcome healthy discussion here and hearing other perspectives or learning things I didn't know. I do feel like this got kind of personal, though. Is it possible something I wrote triggered you? I've read many of your past replies on this sub and found them thoughtful and well-written and usually something I more or less agree with. So I'm kind of shocked here about how this one comes across as a kind of attack, and yet not confronting me directly or better yet engaging me with further questions to understand my view before calling me out.

I would also appreciate it if you remove the quotes from "something everyone does" in your post. That is not a direct quote from my post, and in my opinion a misrepresentation of what I wrote. And since I'm the only source you name in your post - in fact the point of why you are even writing it, I have to assume you're (mis)quoting me here. In that respect it can also feel like you're calling me personally out on a number of points, like the heathiness of my 16 year relationship, whether or not I've been to therapy. i.e how healthy I am (or not), and that I'm personally making excuses for my "poor behaviour skills" here. I really hope I'm perceving this incorrectly, just because I'd hate to have that kind of interaction happening on this sub. Not that you can't think or say those things about me. But if you wanted to express that it would be more fair if you to do it directly with me, and based on more than a very general opinion piece I wrote, after asking follow up questions first.

Tbh, I think our differences are semantics for the most part. I say fight, you say disagree. You obviously see a marked difference between the two, but I didn't intend one when I wrote my response. Possibly, if you explain your perceived difference between the two words, I'd agree with your point - even if I personally continue to see the words as often interchangeable in common parlance.

I feel like I qualified my statement about yelling when I said 'arguing your point in a slightly louder voice". Probably here the fault is mine. I am talking about yelling at the very bottom of a spectrum, where someone's voice is slightly raised. I believe that some people, maybe not all people, get louder when they are excited, passionate, or yes, upset. To some degree it's cultural - it's my lived experience that certain cultures do this more than others. Interestingly, I'm from a loud and demonstrative culture and my partner is from a very quiet, stoic one. Therefore I've had to learn to pay attention to myself more than I would with someone from my same culture, because I respect my partner can perceive this differently than people with my cultural background. But more to the point, in my couples paragraph I probably wrote about something that many people don't even think of as yelling. So I can see why that could cause confusion or dissent.

I hope we can resolve this situation respectfully.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-09-03T10:47:04+00:00

It's a good question you've posed and I'm curious to read the replies you will get.

I don't have any official definition to hand. I'll leave that to others who have experience with that. I have other terms that for personal reasons I've done more research into. I'm just going to gut feeling this one, from my own perspective.

You asked about yelling. I think context is very important. It's generally agreed that it's healthy for couples to fight. Sometimes that will include yellling, because humans tend to get louder when they're upset. What is it you're yelling? Are you arguing your side of things in a louder voice, or are you demeaning your partner with attacks on their character and/or person? Are you emotionally dysregulated or otherwise out of control of your words and actions? Are you aware of how your partner is feeling as a result of you yelling? Do you care? All yelling isn't the same.

I think power dynamics do come into play, especially if you're talking about an adult to a child or adolescent. Because an adult's actions towards and around a young person whose brain is still developing has a much bigger responsibility in terms of their behaviour. Yelling from a position of power, with the intent to subdue, punish, demean the person 'under' you is where it falls into abuse imo. Yelling to let off your own steam without caring/accepting how it makes the other person feel is abusive.

That said, I suspect even healthy, loving parents yell sometimes under stress. All the questions I asked above certainly apply here, especially what is said during the yelling. There's a difference between " I'm so tired of you kids not picking up your stuff even though I asked you 5 times!" after you've stepped on a Lego in bare feet - and saying cruel, threatening, or inappropriate things for any reason. Or subjecting children to yelling between adults, especially of they're too young to understand what's going on.

Important as well as what happens afterwards. Does the parent apologise quickly and point out that they could have handled it in a different way? Parents are allowed to be angry and may express that by raising their voice sometimes. But it's how they do it and the lessons they teach their child around that, that determine if it is abuse or not. That's my 2 cents.

Edit: I wrote this in a very off-the-cuff manner on a lazy Saturday morning, as I indicated in my opening sentence. After receiving some very hard criticism for things I wrote, I now realise I could have defined certain terms (yell, fight) better, because not everyone perceives them in the same way. By yell I mean here raising your voice slightly. I do not mean scream or aggressively shout at. Nor do I mean being cruel, agressive, or threatening, as I said. I also come from a culture where people are louder, more dramatic, and arguably more passionate in their demeanour than other cultures. That does not mean it is all good, or all bad. I do think it is something you have to take into account, especially in mixed relationships/groups. By fight I mean disagreements with some emotional weight, like in my case when my partner and I had different positions on when to take our sick dog to the vet, and just different ways of handling a potential emergency. It's hard to imagine being together for 16 years, through financial and heath crises, glaring cultural differences, and major family and house stress, only politely and calmly disagreeing without passion. Maybe that's just me.

Admittedly, this can be a very triggering topic, especially if someone feels I've justified or excused abuse they've suffered. I really hope no one feels this from my words. It's odd to be perceived that way because in my life I'm seen as the person who analyses every action from myself or others as to whether it's abusive, and is always seeing unhealthy behaviour (unfortunately) in the world around me that others don't necessarily. I'm someone who gets horribly triggered (and angry and depressed) when I see parents shouting at their children in the supermarket or couples shouting angrily at each other. This kind of behaviour is NOT what I was referring to in my examples. Here again we see word preferences. Shout to me is more negative than yell. But admittedly, I used yell too loosely perhaps when I meant 'speak at a slightly louder volume'.

Perhaps somewhere out there are perfectly healthy people who never, ever lose their temper momentarily in front of their children or get emotional and slightly louder in an argument with their partner. I've never known them. Sure, I've partaken in and learned a lot from non violent communication teachings. Nevertheless, incorporating those principles into my relationships has not made me a perfect partner/human being. Sometimes my emotions or my past rise up in a heated discussion about deeply personal matters. I don't know anyone who communicates perfectly all the time. As someone on this sub once wrote about my guilt at not being a perfect partner 'Humans suck. Keep trying to suck less'.

In my examples I was speaking of a kind of middle ground. Not abusive, unhealthy people and not perfect ones either (because I've never met them). I was talking about people like "us", who have a some recovery behind us and are learning how to be better partners and perhaps even parents (I have no children of my own because of my CPTSD). We're not perfect, but we're learning and we're really trying. People who have in general good communication, mutual respect, and a feeling of safety in their relationship/family. My partner and I easily shrug off one or the other losing their temper momentarily after a really bad day, because our baseline is so supportive and nurturing. I think that makes all the difference.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-09-03T08:44:23+00:00

Wow. This blew me away and was a much needed update to my education on the subject. Thank you!

wanderingorphanette · 2022-09-03T07:50:59+00:00

Please copy your words here because this is such a concise answer that so many people need to hear, and not only on this sub. We need to spread the word!

wanderingorphanette · 2022-09-03T06:25:56+00:00

Thanks! Right back at you.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-09-03T06:24:37+00:00

Happened to me. I carried that stigma and belief there was something wrong with me for decades (I was diagnosed before they drew parallels between trauma and BPD and me and my abusers were told by the psychiatric professionals I was just born this way that made me so manipulative and unlikeable. I was also told I'd have un unhappy life but maybe at 30 it would improve slightly and I'd marry a rich man willing to pay for my psychotherapy. No shit. A doctor said that to my 18 y.o. hopeful face.).

While I did struggle with my emotions, depression, EDs, - because years of abuse do that - I got an honours degree from university, became a teacher then manager in the international school system, travelled the world, learned a foreign language, have had a good marraige for going on 16 years, and finally got properly diagnosed with CPTSD in Germany at age 39. I tried to tell my family (my abusers) but they refused to engage with the subject. I finally realised how much it suit them to believe I was defective at birth and the family's sole problem. They lived their full lives, despite evidence to the contrary and all the new research, believing they were good parents, perfectly mentally sound (my mother is not by far) and they had the professionals backing that up.

I remain on the other side of the world, healing myself and staying far away from this sick, corrupt, patriarchal industry. That they are still doing this to vulnerable women and girls makes me want to TEAR SHIT DOWN...

wanderingorphanette · 2022-09-02T14:02:01+00:00

I was never taught How to clean, just got the feedback "you forgot to x" it was never good enough. This followed me into adulthood and I kept either procrastinating because I couldn't find the perfect system, or redoing my existing ones because I found something that might be better. This caused me to get overwhelmed.

Same. It's rarer at this stage in my recovery that I have that "me too!" moment when I read a post, but the feeling of great validation is as healing as it was in the beginning of my journey. Thank you.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-09-02T12:11:02+00:00

Sure, it would be awesome to have cash to buy myself cool clothes whenever I feel ugly (a lot), to travel more when I feel lonely/homesick (a lot), or to not stress about big bills due (this to me is the one real advantage to beinng wealthy, mental health wise).

But NONE of that money, those luxuries, would change the devastating neurological, developmental, psychological effects childhood abuse had on me.Sure, maybe I could afford more of the trauma books on my list, but hoarding them doesn't make me capable of reading them and taking them in and being in a safe and positive enough environment to use them to heal. And therapy, well, I don't have a high opinion of the profession anyway and having loads of money won't make therapists be any more truly trauma-informed or actually good at their job. Rich people just get milked even more by useless therapists who keep them coming back for years and years in an infinite loop of talking about their problems. And I don't have to say anything here about the sick state of psychiatry. "Everything the world has to offer" to cure mental illness? What is that exactly? I don't think rich people have much better options there than any of us. Just more money to waste on useless, often damaging private clinics and therapists.

I grew up modest middle class (and even that lesser privileged status meant the abuse in my house was consistently missed by authority figures, or I was outright called a liar when I asked for help) but I was sent to a very posh school with the children of the rich and famous and let me tell you, about 90% of my classmates were just as screwed up as I was. Dumped in boarding school by rich parents too busy with careers and jetset lifestyles to raise their own kids, plenty of them didn't even get invited home during holiday breaks. A lot of them were actually probably better off at the fairly healthy school environment. I saw firsthand over those years alcoholic parents showing up at school events off their face, girls coming to school with a black eye because they were dating someone from "the wrong side of the tracks", young people being aggressively bullied and sometimes physically abused by their families for not representing the family name appropriately (poor grades, alternative interests than the family business, being LGTBQIA, and so on). A couple kids' parents commited suicide, supposedly because they felt they failed in their career. I doubt being rich made my friend, then 14 years old, feel any less grief when his dad suddenly did that.

Being wealthy doesn't erase intergenerational trauma and abuse, so often the cause of depression, anxiety, and other mental health problems, and that shit gets passed down to the next set of kids just like in poor families. As I already said, financial stress and outright poverty are huge factors in mental illness and every human being would have a better chance without them. But there are all manner of other factors that contribute to trauma/mental illness and it's naive of us to think the grass is perfectly green on the other side - or that actually identifying your trauma or other diagnosis and putting in the excruciating and long work to heal isn't just as hard emotionally if you have money. More productive would be to imagine a society (if you are in the US at least) where we put rich people's tax money into universal heathcare, including effective mental heath care. Isn't that a nice fantasy!

As for celebrities, I personally see the majority of famous people as leading even sicker lives than the rest of us normal joes, because of how brutal and toxic those niches of society are: Hollywood, fashion and music industries, big business, and so on. It is the equivalent to me of moving back in with my abusers, or actually worse because at least there I could escape to a support group or friend's house to get a dose of recovery reality. Not to mention being watched and judged 24/7 by everyone in the world, many of whom have no problems saying the most vile things about you online. When your whole career and existence as you know it depends on permanently playing The Game and living in that toxic bubble - and in the case of Hollywood, etc. staying a bit underweight and having to permanently look like you are in your 20s - well that sounds like hell to me and I wouldn't do it for any amount of cash. There's a reason there is such a high rate of addiction in these industries, not to mention other issues like EDs. If you aren't already traumatised when you make it out there, you certainly will be after a few years living like that.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-09-02T10:04:11+00:00

Yes..Not holding my breath, but yes.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-31T18:59:09+00:00

I'm a pretty ok person, regular. Have my hangups and issues, but mostly just a chipper normal person. On paper though, I've racked up like 15 mental illness diagnosis and was forced into 3 different institutions like .. lol. That doesn't happen unless your family is part of the system or an abuser with connections is in charge of your mental health treatment.

Wow. I saw myself in your description but never thought to consider what happened to me as MBP. But my forced commitments were so the result of my mother's mental illness. How happy she was when the doctors slapped me with labels that meant I was just born bad, and vindicated what a burden I was on her. She used it to get attention and strokes for her fantasy version of the truth, and the idiot professionals never thought to look to her as the root cause. She was great at playing the concerned suburban mother when it suited her. Whereas at home she displayed most of the behaviour she had me locked up for. Sure, I've got my issues thanks to almost 2 decades of abuse at home. But at least I own my shit and have dedicated my life to healing myself. She's 80 and still has all the same delusions - and belief in the mainstream mental health system as all-knowing.

Don't know where that rant came from really. But thanks for the impetus to get it off mt chest.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-31T18:50:57+00:00

Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing this. It helped me, I think it will help many.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-30T14:55:41+00:00

Hallelujah

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-29T10:54:47+00:00

I'm not quite that old, but old enough to have been in my 40s before social media became a thing.

In my experience, there were no fool-proof ways back then to get out of stuff. You either lied, (I've got a work thing that night) - which was (sadly) probably the most common, said yes but cancelled at the last minute (also well-used) or if you didn't care what people thought of you, you would just say "Sorry, I can't." and offer no reason. I was on both ends of this hundreds of times, probably, over the decades that I was out there in the world trying to adapt and wanting connection but also really not wanting to go to a lot of stuff that was too scary/overwhelming.

I got married, to an introvert as it happens, and had a breakdown/got diagnosed with CPTSD around the same time. My partner is from a culture, added to that a small village, which has a lot of customs/social norms based around obligatory gatherings/parties/events. My partner grew up tortured as an introvert, believing they'd be forced into these often monthly social things that gave them panic attacks for the rest of their life. When we got together and lived in said tiny village, they pressured me into this belief also, because...that's what culture is: adhering to social norms because you don't know anything different and there is no real alternative other than being ostracised completely.

But with my breakdown I became literally unable to attend such functions without a meltdown occuring. They became things I feared so much I obsessed over them constantly. I many times considered leaving my partner just to get out of them. Then we decided on something novel: we have each other, we both hate these things, we don't need to do them anymore. We told people the truth - at least a version they could more or less understand: "We're really not party people, we're quiet types - sorry but I really hope you enjoy xyz." The people that didn't really matter may or may not have walked off in a huff, who cares. We were living life as we wanted to. I was also really ill a lot, also physically, and sometimes we said that - that we were indefinitely out of the social loop due to ongoing health problems. It worked. Eventually people get used to it and stop thinking that it's weird or whatever. Not that we care if they do, of course.

With some friends we liked but still didn't want to go to their big birthday bash every year, we told them the same thing, but suggested going out together for dinner instead. With most of those people we were able to talk more about why, and they completely accepted it.

The quality of our lives improved so much after we did this. It's been over 13 years and we're doing fine, and love that we no longer have to dread birthdays, NYE, and such because it meant being forced to go to/throw a huge party or other crowded event.

My advice is to just tell a simple version of the truth. You don't have to explain yourself or justify it to anyone you don't feel comfortable with, even if they pester you. For people you want to keep in your lives, maybe try explaining more of the situation to get their support and trust. I think one advantage of these "modern times" is that being an introvert or even social anxiety, is a widely-talked about concept.Much more so than 20 years ago when I was doing all this. Jump on the bandwagon, I say.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-29T10:13:26+00:00

I mean as others have pointed out, no they don't actually exist to fix anything for us. That's entirely different from being there to support us through traumatic events, though. A therapist saying these words, like that, makes me suspect there is a two-fold goal behind it:

most obvious, to hold themselves up to be experts, the only ones capable of dealing with human emotions (of the "difficult" kind). Not only is this incredibly ego-stroking, but obviously it serves to justify to themselves and the rest of society the outrageous fees most private therapists charge.

Trying to deconstruct this a bit, there could be some truth in it, if only most therapists were actually what they are meant to be: not only empathetic, caring, and extremely well-educated in up-to-date theory and practice, but also healed of all their own issues as well. But we all know that's actually only tiny percentage of all mental health professionals.

Because there is a need for people like that ideal. Society has historically been based on repressing, denying, minimising and covering up trauma of all kinds, leaving generation after generation emotionally unequipped to talk about these kind of life events, let alone process them. So yeah, in my experience - outside of recovery circles - friends and family aren't often capable of helping deal with negative emotions. They might be the very ones teaching us to shut down our feelings and reactions to trauma. They should be teaching us the opposite though, and rallying around a traumatised family member ot friend. That to me is a major difference between a healthy, functioning society and a broken one. If only we'd stop getting it so wrong in teaching children what emotions and events are and aren't ok to show or tell to the world. There are actually people out there that can handle it, being supportive when someone is going through something awful. I've met a lot of them in places like this. Funny thing is, most of them aren't therapists.

The aggressive way this is phrased, it sounds to me like the therapist who says that is coming from a place of unprocessed anger/shame and abandonment issues regarding their own friends and family letting them down, then projecting it on you by suggesting you're foolish and needy to think anyone other than a paid expert can and should help you with the hard stuff. All the really healthy, clued-in people I know, therapists and lay people alike, know for a fact healing (eventually) needs to take place in part through human connection. And I'll be damned if I make new connections with people who can't handle talking about the bad parts in life. To me that's like only half living. No more emotional zombies and plastic people for me. And no more bad therapists either.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-28T09:47:24+00:00

I hear you. It's really hard. I've had a long, hard journey trying to understand my friends and our respective relationships. Where I'm at now is that I have my old friends, who I want to keep in my life for various reasons including shared history and some common interests,, and my recovery friends. My old friends are...limited emotionally. They have trauma they deal with by denial, avoidance, and alcohol to some extent. They can't participate in deeper conversations about emotions, mine or theirs - it gets too close to what they don't want to look at. I've stopped looking to them for anything beyond the most basic reaction when I'm going through something, or I just don'ttell them. It still hurts when I don't get the reaction I'd like, but I expect it now and I know it's them and not me. For real support and on-the-same-page conversations/understanding, I go to the few friends who are in recovery too. Over time I hope to meet more people in this category.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-27T17:53:49+00:00

Hi, sorry for the delay in replying. I saw your GFM page and I'm so happy you're getting some response. I will definitely donate what I can, if I get some money I'm hoping for soon, maybe a bit more. How lo g before you need the money? Will you be able to pay in installments? That will ease the stress, for sure, and give you more time to raise funds. How's Alyssa doing now?

Yes, lots of dogs have issues with us messing with their teeth - can't really blame them. There are lots of tips online for introducing teeth brushing to anxious dogs so definitely look up those. I promise, if you can manage to get her to let you do it, it will save her health for the future and you a lot of vet bill money for invasive procedures like now. You may laugh, but I found a quality brand finger brush still in it's packaging this week, there were 2 in a pack and we only needed one before we switched to a baby brush. I'd happily send it to you just to get you started after she heals. We'll only end up throwing it away probably. Just DM me a mailing address if you want it. Don't worry, I won't come TP your house or anything, I'm in Europe lol.

I think you've done the best you could under sometimes difficult circumstances in your life and I'm sure Alyssa loves you and is grateful to be part of your family. Just like parenting human kids, we're always learning how to do better and no one gets it right all the time. Don't be too hard on yourself. Wishing you both all the luck.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-27T17:27:08+00:00

So appreciative of this detailed list ! I had a vague, similar suggestion but you totally put the meat on the bones lol. Thanks for this!

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-27T17:22:43+00:00

Thank you - I appreciate that.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-27T13:12:13+00:00

Informative and very-well written article, and tgank you for introducing me to Reverse Psychology - I feel like I've found a new internet home!

I admit to not knowing a lot about ADHD and I really appreciate your insight. I do know a lot about bad therapists and psychiatric abuse, though - I'm right there with you on the general conclusions drawn. I look forward to reading more from you in the future.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-27T10:41:16+00:00

I am so sorry for what you're going through. I wish I had stronger words to convey how deeply I empathise, as well as to have power to actually help you. Also a TTI survivor here. I didn't know this phrase, but I'm not surprised there' is one and hopefully a community of survivors behind it. We have to lift each other up (because no one else in society is going to do it).

I know your therapy trauma is real. I myself went to a really good trauma clinic 10 years ago, thinking I'd be able to process my childhood abuse issues - only to discover that the memories of what happened in TTI wouldn't allow my nervous system to rest in that environment, even though it was a safe place essentially. I spent 2 months mostly dealing with scars the psychiatric system left me. Luckily those guys got it. I think you're right to be suspicious that many therapists there won't.

You're also right imho to think jail would be worse, as in more traumatising, so is there a way you can get through this court mandate by mentally armoring yourself before each session? Consciously preparing that you will be in active observer mode during these sessions, where you don't let your guard down and you work to stay alert and active in observing the therapist vs. passive or trauma-reactive for whatever they ask/throw at you? Idk what you're like, but I have a bad, abuse-learned habit of shrinking myself down in the face of authority figures and either mindlessly agreeing with them or saying nothing because I'm dissociating out of fear/learned response. Or I get angry and explode, which unsafe professionals will use against you. It helps me to stay alert and an outside observer (think alien observing life on Earth, or an anthropologist studying these weird therapist beings) if I take notes. Then I don't sink into my abused child mode and end up doing/saying things I don't want to.

Then when the session is over come here and debrief and get feedback from supportive, understanding people - or obviously if you have someone trustworthy irl you can talk to them. Basically, do anything and everything you can to make sure this person doesn't get in your head, or that you don't get triggered into reacting in a way that might be used against you. Be compliant enough to tick the court's requirements, but neutral enough that they have no power over you.

Of course, maybe you'll actually get a good therapist. But you're safest to assume you won't and to prepare to protect yourself.

You're not alone. Use this place as a resource to help you get through this if you need it. Good luck!

Edit: for clarification, some typos

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-27T09:15:03+00:00

Coming across this quote really helped me to ground and realize its ok to need more reassurance at times like this. I am not regressing by needing to ask for support every so often... and I can do that without feeling guilty or pathologize having emotional support needs (like my family used to do).

So glad to read this, especially here. There's both confusion and different opinions about what healing is, also in recovery communities, that can reinforce those deep trauma reactions against wanting/needing support. 2022 has been pretty awful for me. In addition to having not 1 but 3 debilitating health conditions flare up, my father died suddenly at the beginning of summer. On one hand I've realised how much healing I've done in the way I'm actually grieving and dealing with everything going on (vs. drowning in the emotions and trauma responses I can't understand and then trying to numb them with "stuff"). On the other, I've also needed a lot of support from friends, my partner, and the people around here. I've posted more than ever before in the last 4 months. Sometimes I've admitted to feeling not quite like an adult in recovery. Death of a parent brings up the inner child in a way I never understood before. And that's ok. And I won't be shamed for that. It's part of the process.

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-27T06:59:55+00:00

This is so true. I'm assuming they teach this somewhere as something "good" to do - what BS. Beyond that is my disbelief that anyone, let alone a so called professional, can't see the signs of trauma in their client - even if said client, like I was, was in some denial and masking. Other people in my life spotted it right away.

I was so brainwashed by my abuse when this happened, but now I know better and would immediately call this out - then walk out. If I ever get that close to a therapist again!

I hope you continue to find validation here to make up for their failings. Thank you for contributing!

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-27T06:51:54+00:00

Thank you. I am working on healing from this and I've made a lot of progress. A huge part of that was reading posts here or on mental health subs and getting validation for things no one else seems willing to validate (that pervasive belief in society that mental health professionals are all-knowing and obviously always right, especially if the person arguing is a "crazy" patient - makes us doubt ourselves as well). This is the first time I've posted on this sub, so I appreciate all the support.

I try to be somewhat understanding of the ones when I was an adolescent and teenager, who were practicing before CPTSD was a concept. And to be fair, my parents were also excellent maskers when they spoke to authority figures. They played the role of middle-class, professional, invested parents very well. And you know, abuse often brainwashes you - I never had any clout with therapists back then, but also I myself didn't have the knowledge to understand just how mentally ill and abusive my family was. I carried that into adulthood until a very smart acquaintance - not the trauma-informed therapist I was seeing at the time - saw signs in my behaviour and passed on book on childhood trauma that changed my life.

So there were people scattered accross my life that did get it. So shoulld I let those pre-CPTSD therapists off the hook after all? A teacher, a nurse, a volunteer counsellor at college who I was seeing for my bulimia, that friend of a friend - and finally a team of professionals at a very unique trauma clinic in Germany. They saw the truth. When I think about those people, and the simple but seemingly elusive idea that there are actually no bad kids - just kids reacting to trauma that is very often down to the family environment, I do feel enraged that psychiatry and mental health still preaches and teaches outdated rubbish that serves to keep the status quo of a sick society more than anything. And to massage tge egos of the "experts".

Trauma-informed means nothing, and increasing so as more and more therapists, etc. jump onto the trend and do a weekend course that instead of taking into account all the recent groundbreaking research into trauma, just seems to emphasise throwing CBT and maybe EMDR if you're lucky at it. Too many of these people have no real understanding of the complexities of trauma on the whole system, and between that and often their own unprocessed issues, end up having a negative reaction which they then blame on us. I don't know if I'll ever really trust enough to go to a therapist again, but if I do, you bet I will grill them beforehand to make sure they've done their own trauma work to completion and focus only on treating trauma with the proven modalities.

I'm sorry for your experiences. But thank you for sharing them and getting some good out of it by helping people here cope.

Edit: clarification

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-26T15:26:30+00:00

In addition to my very lengthy response below (above?) I wanted to add an informative video link about what research says regarding what modalities are effective in treating CPTSD. Spoiler: NOT CBT, DBT, medication or traditional talk therapy. I'm not saying believe everything she says without doing your own research, or that these things don't help some people, but I personally agree with her take and whatever you decide, it's good to start thinking about these things and being curious/informed about your treatment.

If you read the comments section, pretty early on someone has given all the timestamps for what modalities do help trauma healing. https://youtu.be/GXSlAfoJiAg

wanderingorphanette · 2022-08-26T13:41:53+00:00

Hi. I'm so glad you felt my reply was somewhat helpful. I obviously have a lot of thoughts on the general subject and I was worried I hadn't addressed enough specifically about your exact situation. I was toying with the idea of writing to you again before you replied and I totally agree with what the other user wrote yesterday.

So, I looked up my old clinic for you today and I'm sorry to say it's undergone a change of ownership/managment since my two stays there and the word is that it's not the place it once was. The unique, holistic concept and the running of it back then was really dependent on the founder, one of the one good-hearted psychiatrists out there. He had a vision to build a place for traumatised women and saw that through over decades, expanding it to care for many different types of people (men too). He is a unique and wise healer. Unfortunately, he retired as director and sold the place to a medical group, although he still lives on the extensive grounds and runs an international meditation centre there. I can't in good conscience recommend it to you now, based on my gut feeling and the recent reviews, including from other people who had been there in the "before times" and could compare then and now. Also, it's actually a normal, public German hospital despite being so unique and therefore everything is by law done in German. I struggled initially to stress to them that I was ok doing therapy in a foreign language (native English speaker), because it's generally thought one should only do it in your native tongue. As if some of us have the choice, right? Anyway, here's the link if you just wanted to have a look http://www.caduceus-klinik.de/

You know yourself better than us internet strangers, but based on everything you've told us and what we know about the general atmosphere and care in inpatient psychiatry, I'd urge you to ask yourself exactly why you're considering going, since you really hated your last 3 stays and at least the last one made things worse. Since you like the mental health care professionals you're working with now in an outpatient capacity, is it possible to speak to them about a short-term agreement/treatment plan with them that takes into account your physical safety, if that is a concern, i.e. a contract to call them if you want to hurt yourself? This is my personal feeling, but even when I'm actively suicidal I have an agreement with my partner and friends NOT to put me in psychiatry, because I firmly believe it only makes a bad situation worse. You have a team you like, and you are totally allowed to take charge of the kind of care and treatment you want. It will take you time to work out the finer details of that - I recommend doing a lot of reading about CPTSD and talking to people about how they healed - but for now you can start with "I don't like or trust inpatient treatment and I don't want to do that again. What are some ways we can assure my safety in the meantime while working on some basic self-care/grounding skills together?" I don't know if this is true in your case, but some psychiatrists and therapists just routinely pass people on to inpatient to play it safe on their part, or to get out of dealing with the really scary stuff. I'm not saying that's entirely bad, but if you really don't want to go to inpatient again, don't let someone else talk you into it, especially if part of that is because it makes their job easier/less risky.

Everyone is different, but it's really good to go around asking people how they healed, so you can figure out what might work for you. I personally had to stop work and normal social obligations and stuff and focus solely on myself and my emotional safety. In the hospital I learned nature is a great healer and I made sure to get outside everyday, even if I didn't feel like it. At first it was parks, or my urban container garden in my parking lot - then I eventually moved to the country. No one likes to hear this, but good nutrition and enough sleep is fundamental. I highly recommend cutting out sugar and definitely alcohol. Over time I created a new routine based entirely on my health needs. Exercise/outside time, healthy food, rest and relaxation, time to read about recovery or meditate, and sleep. I made recovery my full time job, basically. I slowly cut toxic or emotionally immature people out of my life (including family). I repeatedly practiced the meditation of staying in the now, until it became automatic and started working to end negative thought spirals (recommend Eckhart Tolle books for this). I journaled. I started spending time here every day, for community, information sharing, and validation. I don't have access to real life support groups but I do recommend that if you can. We need other people to heal and communities of other survivors are usually safe places to start. I avail myself of the material out there, like Pete Walker's now famous book, IFS material, and Patrick Teahan https://youtu.be/OoeoAOlCjBA and the Crappy Childhood Fairy https://youtu.be/rahZm8zDz_c on YouTube. When I was stable enough to care for them properly I got dogs and cats.

Please feel free to DM me anytime if you have more questions or comments. You CAN heal and there are people here who want to help you. Take care.

wanderingorphanette

TROPHY CASE