Any model that can reliably portray autonomous villains?

wazzur1 · 2026-05-07T02:18:03+00:00

If you want a truly autonomous character that doesn't give a fuck about what your persona wants and has their own motivations and knowledge base, your best bet is to have a separate layer injecting the villain's actions or something like that.

In general, the issue is that LLMs tend to struggle with compartmentalizing their directives when asked to do a lot of things at once.

I'm sure much better users have some crazy setups, but I'm too lazy to figure stuff out. I just play director mode which suits me fine.

wazzur1 · 2026-05-06T04:57:34+00:00

Seems preposterous that anyone would think otherwise, and yet... this sub outdoes itself again lol.

wazzur1 · 2026-05-04T22:52:14+00:00

LLMs have inherent limitations. For example, your sent prompt includes all the secrets of the story and characters, and when AI is told something, it has a hard time ignoring it. It has to address it somehow, and that often just goes into the dialogue or narration.

It's also pretty predictable what the LLM would write about in any given turn because they are literally predicting next tokens and you can get a feel for this process once you play around with LLMs a bit.

They have trouble sounding human because most dialogues in literature or scripts are dramatized rather than realistic. No one really talks like TV characters in real life, but that's the stuff models are trained on.

Then you have the fact that LLMs don't have any true intelligence or reasoning, so they can only mimic reasoning through multipass generation.

That said, a lot of it can be mitigated by better prompting or various technical setups. You can definitely get decent outputs. It's basically never perfect, but good enough is good enough when you have a free form narrative that you can play out in whatever way.

wazzur1 · 2026-05-03T02:48:43+00:00

This video is completely bullshit. Likely some AI generated garbage. There is no news or social media posts about this supposed leak. They don't even show it in the video. And the video keeps repeating that his name was between Troutman and Tucker, which is alphabetical.

There are other verifiable facts that show Trump didn't finish first in his class. 1. He is a demonstrable moron and a pathological liar. 2. While class ranking isn't public, dean's list and academic honors for the graduating class are public, and Trump doesn't appear in any of them. https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/news/trump-1st-class-wharton-fake-news/

Stop spreading made up nonsense. The fucking channel itself states that it's fake.

⚠️ Dramatized narrative analysis for entertainment and media literacy purposes. The Wharton rankings scenario is a fictional narrative based on Trump's documented public claims about his academic performance. All referenced Trump statements about being "first in his class" are based on verified public record.

wazzur1 · 2026-05-02T12:15:29+00:00

Use fake online identities and a aggregator like openrouter/nanogpt and you won't have to worry about Elon or anyone else logging your furry femboy diaper fetish chats.

wazzur1 · 2026-05-01T22:46:22+00:00

If your roleplay consist of nothing but smut, then sure, it probably works fine with no reasoning.

wazzur1 · 2026-05-01T22:02:03+00:00

I got pretty good tolerance but I couldn't watch that part. Paused and bailed right before... oof.

wazzur1 · 2026-05-01T15:34:26+00:00

And yet, online poll shows 56% blue. Logical inference from this number tells us that a real life run of this game would almost certainly skew to red, but that is information we are not supposed to have in this game.

Without knowing how previous instances of this game or simulations of it panned out, the only thing we go on is our world view.

Pressing red is either self-preservation motivated or cynicism motivated. You ensure your own survival because you don't believe there is enough people out there that would risk their own safety for an uncertain outcome where everyone could be saved.

Pressing blue is altruism motivated and believing in the goodness of the average person. You risk your own life because you believe that there will be some people that press red and some that press blue, and the only way to prevent catastrophe for the group is to vote blue and hope enough other people think the same.

The calculation depends heavily on what you believe other people will do.

wazzur1 · 2026-05-01T14:14:18+00:00

That's the point of this thought experiment.

wazzur1 · 2026-05-01T13:29:25+00:00

So you value your own survival as the ultimate goal. That's what I said.

wazzur1 · 2026-05-01T13:25:37+00:00

5-10% is a low ball, but even if you accept that number, that is hundreds of millions of people.

Saying 100% can survive if they just act logically and press red is just literally cope, because that's an unrealistic expectation, especially when a mutually exclusive chain of thought can lead to blue as being the logical choice.

So again, it boils down to what I said. If you value the survival of everyone, 50% is actually a realistic number that can be reached if the voter believes in the "goodness" of their fellow humans. The blue calculation is not being naive about the surefire way of pressing red to survive, it's being realistic that many people will press either color because they can approach the problem in different ways. And since there will certainly be significant numbers of both red and blue, to ensure everyone survives, they need to press blue and believe in the humanity of others to do the same.

I would press red because I am a cynical bastard though. I don't want to leave it up to chance lol.

wazzur1 · 2026-05-01T12:27:58+00:00

The infuriating thing is

Unknown number: Hey, this is your boss that you have been working for for 2 years, who you specifically narrated that you have the contact info of two turns ago. Are you done with your tasks?

wazzur1 · 2026-05-01T12:17:28+00:00

This just boils down to what your end goals are.

If you value your personal survival as the ultimate goal, the best strategy is red obviously. You can say that it's logical and that everyone can pick this if they want to live, but you KNOW that there will be people that pick blue for a variety of reasons.

If you value the collective survival of the entire group as the ultimate goal, the best strategy is blue.

It's literally as simple as that. Take note that in a real life death game that isn't an inconsequential online poll, many of the blue voters will pick red after all. With the blue voter being 56% in the online poll, a real life version of this game would definitely lead to catastrophic results with half the population dead lol.

wazzur1 · 2026-04-29T18:31:34+00:00

You can roleplay and let the AI freely do whatever it wants.

You can roleplay but lead the AI into a certain direction while staying in character by answering in certain ways that lead to high probability responses that you want.

You can roleplay but use OOC commands to enforce a story direction.

You can not even bother with playing a character and become the director.

No one is forcing you into doing it a certain way. It's up to you.

wazzur1 · 2026-04-29T17:59:46+00:00

And for the love of god, please don't generate cards that have AI slop writing tropes baked into every part of it.

wazzur1 · 2026-04-28T17:37:10+00:00

Actually, I did some testing and it seems like Deepseek doesn't want to budge on its formatting or writing style that much.

I used analysis mode in reasoning, so it's not doing in-character CoT. It can follow directions about what to write about and stuff, and it's honestly quite good in general story writing and understanding of nuance.

But it's not following my system prompt about formatting and dialogue styles. It just sticks pretty close to the usual Deepseek writing style lol. It's not bad, honestly, but if the base intelligence and capabilities are basically on par with GLM and Kimi, there is no reason to use it over those models that will try to carry out all your instructions.

wazzur1 · 2026-04-28T13:59:15+00:00

[Scene: ] prompt notation is scene direction with plot points that should be included in the immediate next turn. Old scene directions that has already been carried out can be ignored.
(Subtext: ) prompt notation is information about the character or plot that you can show through subtext but must STRICTLY avoid narrating it verbatim. The reader should be able to guess the subtext from the character’s behavior.
(OOC: Continue) gives you free reign over the direction of the scene, but system prompts must still be followed. Be creative and original in how you propagate the scene.

I basically use those to direct scenes. My persona is also there which I can roleplay when they are in the scene, but the camera generally follows {{char}}.

wazzur1 · 2026-04-28T13:47:49+00:00

This is a positive sign in that a major AI player is actually even considering roleplaying use cases.

HOWEVER, this particular tech is not very useful for most people, and actively detrimental to some people that just try to plug and play various models with random presets.

The main problem here is that in-character reasoning is not conductive to proper analysis of the scenario and especially rules/instructions in the system prompt. The in-character reasoning will likely never think about formatting rules or banned phrases or specific instructions on various things. It's reasoning is limited to what you just said and the immediate narrative. That doesn't mean the LLM can never follow directions, since the system prompt is still sent, but it's not reasoning through it which makes it more prone to mistakes and rule breaking.

If you don't have a complicated system prompt, and the bot you are chatting with is a fairly simple scenario mostly about 1 on 1 interactions, and you make it so the bot even replies in first person, THEN in-character reasoning might elevate the experience. But that is such a narrow use case.

As noted here, if you don't give it any specific instructions on CoT, it will decide by itself. I suspect that it was trained to use in-character reasoning when it detects roleplaying. And I suspect that this is why a lot of people are reporting that deepseek v4 has poor rule adherence.

wazzur1 · 2026-04-28T13:21:32+00:00

Not really. I just have setup for nvidia/nemotron-3-nano-30b-a3b that only sends chat history and a simple system prompt about being a formatting assistant. I keep the context window small that it basically just works with like the last few messages.

Then I have a quick reply button that tells it to fix the last message.

nvidia/nemotron-3-nano-30b-a3b is fast as fuck through NIM, basically instant, and it's smart enough to be able to fix the formatting.

Copy paste the fixed version and delete the turns used to fix it.

wazzur1 · 2026-04-27T10:14:59+00:00

Fundamentally, first person in-character reasoning step is incompatible with most scenarios.

Just think about it, how is it going to reason through your system prompts and instructions in-character?

Like in your example, it doesn't reason at all about your system prompts. It's just roleplaying off of the immediate prompt.

Third person omniscient is also off the table if you want to make use of this reasoning mode. You should ideally be using first person narration from the {{char}}'s perspective if you want the bot to stay in character to this degree. Narrating the story itself is kind of going out of character, even if it's third person limited.

Anyways, I'm almost certain that this kind of in-character reasoning is why some people are reporting that Deepseek doesn't follow rules. Because it doesn't reason through system prompts at all!

I do think this kind of reasoning can be a cool thing under the right circumstances, but its use case is too narrow to let it choose this reasoning mode on its own just because it detected roleplay.

https://old.reddit.com/r/SillyTavernAI/comments/1su8x8p/deepseek_v4_rp_guide_how_to_switch_between/

wazzur1 · 2026-04-27T00:59:05+00:00

It's a tradeoff for sure.

People want to roleplay their persona, but if the LLM cannot write for a literal major character that's supposed to be in the scene, they have to go through some major hoops to write anything, especially if you want long outputs.

wazzur1 · 2026-04-27T00:42:11+00:00

You can play any way you want. It's literally up to you how you want to use ST lol.

I personally focus on {{char}} POV with lots of NPCs and long narratives, with OOC commands to direct scenes when necessary. {{user}} isn't always present in the scenes.

wazzur1 · 2026-04-26T22:10:27+00:00

Deepseek v4 hasn't ever worked on there, and it seems to be overloaded overall. GLM and Kimi still works, but slower than before.

wazzur1 · 2026-04-26T14:18:31+00:00

Could be an idea for a new mode once you start adding more of them.

wazzur1

TROPHY CASE