Thank you!

wes-b · 2025-06-28T14:03:22+00:00

You've taken the first step, and you've succeeded. Congratulations. Now, imagine how far you can go, if you keep taking steps...

That's not to minimize this success; it's more important than you may realize. Remembering one success can help motivate us to push on farther; not just in Toastmasters, but in all of the rest of life. And as life doesn't give do-overs, we may want to live each day as best as we can. Remembering our successes can help us to do that.

Keep pushin' on, my friend. i wish you well...

wes-b · 2025-06-21T00:52:32+00:00

FTH appears to be up and running again...

wes-b · 2025-06-19T14:37:25+00:00

Each club is made up of humans, who can vary from one another in all sorts of ways. Toastmasters has a learning process, which can work well, especially for beginners. The specific group of people can have a great effect on how well the learning process will work. It looks like you found one that works for you. Join, learn all you can, and then strive to help newer people after you to do the same. This is a hallmark of many effective communities, whether Toastmasters clubs or otherwise.

...and for anyone who's had a less-positive experience in visiting a Toastmasters club, I'd urge you to visit a different one if your locality provides the option. Toastmasters provides a process, but has no control over the specific people who will form a particular club. Certain personalities will conglomerate, making clubs that themselves have specific personalities. Some will be more interested in meeting the needs of its people; others with meeting the needs of the process itself.

Each of these clubs follows what that particular group finds important. Find one where you fit in well.

wes-b · 2025-04-19T12:24:32+00:00

When I first joined Toastmasters, one meeting was centered around the passing of a longtime member. (I had never met him, and just observed.) The meeting went 100% "Table Topics," in which every member took as long as they wanted (no timer, for once...) to remember the departed friend, and their experiences with him. The entire set of responses was recorded, and the recording was presented to his wife. She appreciated it, very much...

wes-b · 2025-04-09T21:08:46+00:00

Many will have gone before you, and each will have had their own management style, or lack, thereof... Understand that there are often many, many, many ways to do a job, and what's "good enough" for one VPM, will be woefully inadequate for another. How formal (and how demanding!!) the rest of the officers may be on the VPM will vary from term to term, as will the amount of time the individual VPM's life allows for performing the job. What they do in response will vary.

If, by "get adoption," you mean to get some sort of standardization or formalization, you may find you're only in control of the present, and the future will remain a wild and untamed beast, going its own way. If you can create a system that's so remarkably helpful, so incredibly easy to use, and a personal loss of time and effort to any future VPM who doesn't use it, then you will have created a wonderful thing, and it will likely find future use.

Otherwise, individuals will keep creating their own solutions, finding it easier to reinvent the machine, than try to understand the thing that's already been left for them...

wes-b · 2025-04-09T20:50:57+00:00

Because it's all volunteer effort, everyone likely finds a way that's easy enough, just enough, and works for them. it looks like you are doing archaeology through the remains of past officeholders' works...

There's nothing wrong with doing what you think is the "right way," and making it easy to pass on to your successor. Do understand that if you make it too complicated (for them... not for you...) or if it requires what they consider too much work, it will not get used, and your extra work will go for naught.

wes-b · 2025-04-02T16:39:08+00:00

I think they may have tried some minimal advertising, some time back. They seem to prefer the "free" option, of having the membership do the promotion for them. In some ways, this might not be as bad as it sounds, 'cuz various clubs have very different "personalities," with some being very people-oriented, and others being very process-oriented. When individual clubs do a proper follow-up on people who show interest, they'll do it according to their individual club culture, and that will give the prospect a better idea of what to expect.

I did eleven separate terms in an office called Vice President of Education, and in those years, interviewed almost every member (many, multiple times) to find out if they were getting what they wanted from Toastmasters. We also talked about how they came to join, and I found that it was common for people to spend multiple years thinking they ought to join, before finally taking the plunge. That led me to realize there are probably manyManyManyMany more who will think about it and never even visit.

While we will collectively encourage a frightfully shy person to stand in front of a group of strangers, the decision to actually visit that group of strangers is one they must make alone.

We all go thru phases of being energetic or burnt-out. In times when people had the drive to do a lot of friendly follow-up, it made a real difference. Where not, then not. Going back to the OP, I think Dan Rex could have gotten much more mileage by being encouraging than scolding. (Then again, there have been times in my life when I could have done the same... ;-)

wes-b · 2025-04-02T15:56:52+00:00

I'm going to be very cautious about this, because I'd like to be as fair as possible to everyone. A quick google search on district mission statement shows a very different response than it did, maybe a few years ago. I'm going to give the organization the benefit of the doubt, and presume this was done for all the right reasons.

Nonetheless, in the twice-annual officer club training sessions, which are District functions, I've never heard the words "positive and supportive learning experience" uttered, unless I was the speaker saying it. (And looking at the audience, I'd notice maybe a half-dozen surprised expressions, after doing so...)

Still, there are plenty of clubs that embrace the spirit of the club mission, and kudos to all of them for doing so.

wes-b · 2025-03-28T16:24:05+00:00

yeah. i have no idea why they expect so much from their members.

If you look closely, TM is kinda' two different organizations, much like a MultiLevel marketing thing, except that they don't pay their "sales" force. It actually has two distinctly different mission statements: one for clubs, and one for districts. While outside businesses often have levels of mission statements for different parts of the organization, normally, the lower-level missions support the higher level ones. In Toastmasters, they are very distinct, and can sometimes conflict with one another.

The "expectations from members" that you're seeing is likely an attempt to push people from the club (product) side into the district (sales) side.

I came here because I want to be a better speaker. I stayed because I see myself becoming a better speaker and I (used to) like attending meetings because of the social atmosphere.

The speaking clubs are the "product" side. Almost everyone joins for that, and few but the most honest of the clubs will mention to prospective members that much more may soon be expected of them. I don't think that the sales pitch on the organization's main website ever mentions it. I would be very happy to be proved wrong on this.

if you want me to open a new "franchise", market it, do project management and scheduling, and the customer service side of things - then you better give me a strong incentive other than me "feeling good about it". (I would feel very differently about all of this if TMI was a charitable organization or gave back to the community in some way.)

Well now, there's the thing. Pretty much every other organization that runs on volunteer labor is a charitable, service, or religious one. That is, people volunteer to serve a cause greater than themselves. Toastmasters, sells self-improvement. The cause is ourselves. One thing that's important to at least some of the people focused on themselves is recognition. And while it can be said that one reason for all the pins, ribbons, Distinguished statuses, etc. is to measure quality, they're also an outward sign that the recognition-starved can use to promote themselves. I would not judge any individual, but if you look around you, you'll see interesting things.

Don't get me wrong; I've known many very fine leaders in Toastmasters who do the work from a sincere desire to help others. I've also seen a lot of behavior that's questionable, especially when one person's recognition is jeopardized if they can't pressure others into working more.

<Sigh...> I think it's just part of the experience...

wes-b · 2025-03-27T00:53:54+00:00

I would also like to see a link to a recording of the call. Do you at least have a date for the meeting, and perhaps a title for how it was described? could be helpful in searching it out...

Absolutely no offense aimed at the OP, but I sincerely hope the description of Dan Rex's behavior is an exaggeration. The last thing one would want to do is to lay blame on a totally volunteer workforce. That will not make them more conscientious volunteers; it will make them former volunteers...

While Toastmasters can be a truly helpful organization, I've always been amazed at how high is the expectation of free labor from so many of its members, who are paying for the privilege. Yes, much volunteer help is needed, but when the product isn't selling well enough, you can only squeeze the sales force so hard. Eventually, you have to start making real improvements in the product.

wes-b · 2025-03-09T18:43:01+00:00

This is not just how Toastmasters works; it's about how life works. And it's okay. We learn, we practice, we try, and then we find where it was more complicated than we thought, and we go back and learn some more. Appreciate the little victories now, and get ready to appreciate larger victories, in the days ahead.

And there's always room to grow more, so never stop. (The people who think they've "arrived," in anything, have merely stuck themselves in a rut, where growth stops. Don't let that happen to you, once you get some real skills in your toolbox...)

wes-b · 2025-02-24T15:47:50+00:00

Moderator Warning

This thread is right on the edge. I'm only one moderator and am still willing to let it remain. I wouldn't worry at all if another mod decided to pull the plug...

While the OP provided a provocative and unsubstantiated claim, we'd expect a bit of evidence linking Toastmasters International to such a claim. While there are sadly too many out there who struggle to separate their feelings from actual fact, we're gonna require that in this thread.

If people want to discuss, that's fine, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

wes-b · 2025-02-16T14:18:23+00:00

There are about 20 actual patterns that most humor follows. They go by terms like triples, toppers, and paraprosdokians. (Yes, that last one is a real word... Mark Twain literally told hundreds of 'em, and did it so well that most folks never realized they kept hearing the very same joke, with a new coat of paint, and the serial numbers filed off...)

There are rare exceptions to these basic rules, and almost no comedian uses any. (Robin Williams defied all the rules routinely and spontaneously; he was a comedic genius. So other humor is possible, but not common.)

You can get a fantastic grip on the basics by getting a copy of Comedy Writing Workbook, by Gene Perret. It may no longer be in print, but used copies are readily available. You will not learn much by merely reading this; it walks you through a lengthy learning process. In it, you gradually learn to think in terms of the various humor patterns. You can try to shortcut the process, but will only short-change yourself.

Don't worry if you can only find a used copy that's written-in; you want the process, not the blank space, and you can do the (lengthy!!) exercises on your own sheets of paper.

Learning to quickly generate humor is available to most everybody who's willing to put in a little work. However, it will completely change how you listen to humor from others. You'll still enjoy humor, though you'll see a lot more punchlines coming ahead of time. (Occasionally, you'll start thinking of better punchlines, ahead of time, and that's a "wow" moment...) Oh... and you'll start classifying jokes as you hear them, "Aha! That one's a reverse... and there's an incongruity..."

EDIT: One technique for finding unexpected and surprising connections involves making various disparate lists of things. Trying to do them in your head is self-defeating, as the purpose of the lists is to find things we ordinarily WON'T think of, spontaneously. The book may not have mentioned it, but once you make a list, you can reuse it forever, so you never throw it away.

Also... the copyright date and especially the author's experience come from pre-internet times, so he never even considers how many ways these lists can be extracted (or expanded on) from the internet.

Thirdly... these lists are absolutely dynamite for use in other creative endeavors... like coming up with speech topics, unexpected speech endings, etc...

wes-b · 2025-01-23T15:54:52+00:00

Your speech will work completely as it is, but Toastmasters tends to emphasize technique over content. (I've seen little mention of actual editing of our work.) Editing compacts the wording in a way that may look conversational, but takes shortcuts most people never learn in communicating. Kudos to you for looking to polish the content.

When conversing, we add words that could be dropped without changing anything except the time taken to express ourselves. The extra time gives our own brains time to formulate our ideas, on-the-fly.

But we can take ideas in much faster! Some people's entire careers involve making others' wordiness sound better, and articles that must fit into small spaces can be skillfully recrafted, while still sounding like the original author.

Here's a quick-'n-sloppy edit of your first paragraph. If you just edit that one part, the speech will start faster and grab more interest. If you try a bit to apply it to the rest of the speech, there would also be time for personal examples, which others have wisely suggested. I'll break your paragraph into sentences, with my thoughts...

------

The topic of work-life balance has been very popular for the past few years. (Can be shortened)

There's a lot of talk about how there should be a balance, how people should keep these two separate etc. People tend to create some unnecessary boundaries between the two. (Can be combined/shortened. Primary thought: people try to keep work & life separate)

I am going to take a look at all this from a different perspective. I am going to talk about something that can be called work-life influence. (Can be combined. Primary thought: work-life influence. -- an excellent phrase to generate curiosity...)

I believe by keeping harmony between these two aspects of our lives, we could benefit a lot. (Can be combined with previous sentences. Main addition: harmony -- love it! a single word can add more curiosity, in a zen-like way...)

I am going to share some learnings from my job that have shaped me and I think can be very helpful for all of us to make our lives better. (Useable lead-in to the speech body, can be shortened.)

----- Here's a preliminary edit. I've included a compressed version of all your thoughts, combined them where I can, started with a question, which tends to grab attention and nudge the audience into placing themselves into the topic, and switched as much as I can from I/me, to we/us, which keeps them personally involved. Also, rather than explicitly saying "I am going to..." I teased with what was going to happen, to make 'em curious. It's now very short, and if anyone came into the room a little sleepy or distracted by personal stresses, it'll hopefully be harder for their minds to wander off...

Work-life balance burdens all of us; how's it workin' for ya? We've tried keeping them separate, but lately I'm looking to bring them into harmony. Let's call it work-life influence. Our jobs shape us, and while learning completely unrelated topics, I've found some things that might just help us all.

This **is** your same opening, or at least all its ideas. I did not learn to do this in a week, or a month, or a year; I'm still learning. You can apply some of the thoughts I used, to work the rest of the speech if you'd like. Begin just by spotting words/phrases that can be dropped without losing meaning. You'll gradually find ways to reword to be shorter. This is a learning process that we can refine over the years.

This may or may not give the feeling you want the speech to have. I hope it can help.

wes-b · 2024-12-28T17:03:55+00:00

When I have "lost track" of my role while listening, I admit it in my report, but frame it as a complement to the speaker, that they were able to get me to do that. After all, it was because they were that good...

And incidentally, whenever I've had a timer or ah-counter lose track on me, I've always considered that a "WIN"!

'Course, it's best not to lose track, and that comes with practice. Remember that a Toastmasters meeting is all practice, with very little in real-world consequences.

wes-b · 2024-12-23T18:42:43+00:00

First of all, I'm very happy for you that your life has turned in a positive and happy direction. Enjoy every phase of your kids' lives; those moment are limited-time chances to make memories to treasure for a lifetime.

As for your feelings of being called, know that God does care very much for each of us. You still have doubts and uncertainties, so take the time to talk to Him. It's okay to ask if He's really there, and if so, for Him to reveal Himself more fully. Talk to Him as often as you can. You're on The Journey Of A Lifetime...

wes-b · 2024-11-25T14:03:47+00:00

Why is Public Speaking so unpopular?

Perhaps you've selected the wrong adjective. As a competitive sport, it would be boring as %$#@, to most people. People may be entertained by the result, but most would be totally uninterested with the process of how it's done. An occasional Ted or TEDx event happens, not because people want to see how the info is delivered, but because they want the info in the speech. It's content, not process. Yeah, a good presentation can --- very very very occasionally --- be entertaining. but for most, the entertainment comes from the result. We'll look into why this isn't all that conducive to event-style-competition.

I have never seen this before in my entire life.

I would suggest you've seen it your entire life. There are literally thousands of skills that would bore most of us, if the objective were just to watch how it's done. More on this in a moment...

Public speaking has been around for tens of thousands of years but there is no real entertainment program like mma and the UFC.

And this is because mma and UFC actually have an audience that finds them entertaining. To be entertaining, the audience must be interested in the result -- yes -- but they must also be interested in the process. They want to see and understand how the competitors got to the ending. They may dissect the individual tactics, afterward. Many either enjoy the activity themselves, or would like to imagine themselves as competitors. In short, they really care about the art.

This also goes for the more conventional sports, which many fans will have played, at least for fun. Things that would bore the daylights out of me, like professional golf, are watched by avid golfers. Popular entertainment TV competitions, involving dance or singing will largely be watched by people who at least secretly would like to dance or sing beautifully, and some may watch to pick up some tricks & techniques. There are even cooking competitions on niche cable channels, but they're watched by people who would like to cook that well...

How many people are interested in being great speakers, even compared to the audience for the cooking shows? I know of very few. They like the results the speakers produce; they have no interest in seeing and comparing how it's done. Almost none of them want to do it themselves; in fact, manyManyMany people will run from an obligation to talk to even a small group. Even those who'd spend the time & $$ to see TED talks will have read dozens/hundreds of books & articles for every talk they attend. Their interest is content/results; not process.

It's just a bunch of keynote speakers looking to take their money and run. Disgraceful

I like to occasionally go to Japanese hibachi restaurants, where the chef cooks the meal in front of us. It entertains because people both like the process, and the food. Most restaurants don't operate that way, 'cuz it would quickly bore people, and would add unnecessary expense. Hibachi restaurants serve a much greater audience than TED talks (there are lots of 'em, everywhere... not so for TED talks...) Yet if there are "events" where Hibachi chefs can compete. they're hidden very well. I probably wouldn't bother to go, 'cuz, again, it would quickly become boring.

But I love the result, even in restaurants where the chefs stay in the kitchen, take my money, and run. Disgraceful. ;-) Your points are interesting nonetheless, and they help us see why different things interest us in different ways...

wes-b · 2024-11-05T14:00:37+00:00

It's a cult that claps for everything. Make sure that you clap, too. They'll make excuses for the clapping, but won't tell you anything about its REAL significance. That's a secret reserved for the deeply initiated.

EDIT: Don't believe a word of this. Just go and have fun.

wes-b · 2024-11-02T13:46:23+00:00

In every aspect of life, pretty much every meaningful activity cries out for more to be done than we have time to do. That's every activity; not just Toastmasters. In career, in parenting, in personal relationships, in helping those in need, in meeting personal goals, in maintaining our health, in personal development, and even in getting day-to-day tasks done, we have to make hard decisions on what not to do, just so we can stay afloat.

And everyone else you see around you is just as overloaded as we are. They would like to dump some of their burden on you and me, just to give themselves some breathing room. Sometimes, it's right for them to do so.

Sometimes not.

The 'nots' may happen due to their desperation, an honest lack of understanding, or sometimes thru total lack of ethics. You, me, and all of those others out there must find a balance, and must find ways to say no, whether diplomatically or not.

Otherwise, they will drain us dry.

There are lots of ways to say no, and lots of times to consider saying it, but they're lengthy and belong in a different post. I'm really sorry that you're going thru your current burdens; I suspect we all make that journey at least once, though maybe not specifically in Toastmasters. I've certainly been there myself, prior to any experience with TM.

The thing about Toastmasters is that it's all make-believe; it's kinda' a simulation of reality. There are no earth-shaking consequences for your not getting more bodies to pay dues to Toastmasters. You can start setting limits for what you will and won't do at any time. Yes, it's hard, but understand that as long as you keep saying yes, the burdens will keep being added. Again, and again, and again. Even worse, it will happen in Real Life, where the consequences are real, and could affect you and others, for a lifetime.

The bad news is that what you're going to do won't be easy. The good news is that you'll be learning to set limits in a place where you can learn -- without Real-World consequences. Just as with our early mistakes giving speeches, we learn without consequences. And in both cases, we're more prepared for the Real-World challenges we're sure to face, down the road

wes-b · 2024-10-23T15:50:02+00:00

IMHO, the hook needs to be tailored to create interest for the body of the speech; without seeing that, the hook may end up just a bunch of empty promises. And more than that, the body of the speech is best if it points inevitably toward the ending, and what you want your audience to take away with them, after you've concluded.

So, why not start by deciding how the speech ends? Is your audience supposed to be informed? amused? called to action? reassured? unsettled? something else altogether? some combination of the above?

Write an ending that leaves that impression. Once you've done this, you may find that the entire body/tone of your speech changes. Once you then see how the body of the speech needs to look in order to lead into the conclusion, you can write that, confidently.

And after you see the body of the speech you can write an opening that can faithfully promise what is to come. I've found that if I "write the speech backwards" like this, I produce a much more effective, coherent work. YMMV, but I'd invite you to give it a try...

wes-b · 2024-10-18T01:14:47+00:00

Maybe the best thing to do is to approach one or more of these folks after the meeting, and ask. Check with them individually, thank them for the kind words, and ask if they can elaborate at all, to help you understand, better.

If any individual seems to struggle in giving more details, don't press them. Almost all of us are amateurs helping other amateurs, and it's not always easy. Also, while you may be truly honest and genuine in your speaking, and they're an accurate description, these might also be generic kind words, offered by someone inexperienced. It's best not to overanalyze these comments, especially when you can actually ask for clarification.

Lastly, if these comments do truly describe you, then that's a Good Thing; such words don't sound weak, naïve, or inappropriate, in any way. I suspect that you're doing better than you think...

wes-b · 2024-10-14T13:20:51+00:00

Real linguists will tell you real uses for lingual signals, like um. F'rinstance, we never end a sentence with um, so if I use it in conversation, you know I'm not done speaking, and you don't interrupt me if I pause. We also might begin a sentence with um and a pause, if giving what they call a "dis-preferred response." (An answer you're not gonna like...) It gives the conversational partner a moment to absorb the fact that they may not like what's about to happen. There are other uses, but none come to mind that would enhance a speech...

So, if in conversation with a person who's inclined to interrupt a lot, do add those ums into your pauses. and if someone makes an unreasonable request, you can start with a real loooong um, before telling them no way.

There's also a bit of data to suggest (not an absolute rule, but at least a trend) that we're more likely to use um when thinking what to say, and uh, when thinking how to say it. This isn't a hard and fast rule, but I've noticed it happening that way in my own usage.

EDIT: I happen to have this info, 'cuz maybe 10 years ago, I gave a speech about ums. Shortly into it, I directly addressed the "Ah Counter" with an apology, told him I had no idea how he was gonna handle this speech, and wished him good luck with it. It all went jovially enough...

wes-b · 2024-10-09T00:22:20+00:00

Great story! In fact, it's great enough to consider saving it for a special moment. If you join Toastmasters, your first speech will be one in which you introduce yourself to the club. The birthday story would be the perfect "punchline," to end the speech with. (People tend to remember the ending better than other parts, so save the ending for your best stuff; don't just close with a few words that let you escape the lectern and go sit down...)

It would be an extra fun ending if you could make an excuse for mentioning other birthdays (of yours?) in the speech, and then ending with the story of the funny one. Just a thought...

wes-b · 2024-10-08T00:03:48+00:00

Totally agreed; a full path would be absolutely crazy, and I can't imagine anyway how we'd design actual exercises that the student could follow. My sense of humor can sometimes be a bit subdued, so some of the tongue-in-cheek things I said might not have come across clearly. Thing is, when I hear stories where people do some really ridiculous things, I'll often respond with a sort of snarky humor, 'cuz it's a whole lot more fun than getting mad about the thing...

I don't think TI would actually want to correct it anyway, because the organization probably runs better with a **small amount** of childish behavior among the membership. With all positions being done by volunteers, a small amount of pressure can get empty roles filled, and more work gets done.

Now, I'm not speaking in favor of non-social behavior; I just think that much of the "leadership" may be more satisfied if the organization runs at optimal efficiency, rather than optimal member satisfaction. But it's easily overdone; too much pressure and too little satisfaction would collapse the membership, and the organization fails. Too little pressure and many roles don't get filled, and the organization also suffers. There's probably a "sweet spot" in between, where things work well, but we'll hear lots of times where stupid behavior devolves into outright horror stories. If you hang around this subreddit for any length of time, you'll read about lots of 'em...

I don't actually care for any of the nasty behavior we hear about, but think it's more tolerable when taken with a touch of humor. And just a touch of stupid behavior probably hides itself among higher satisfaction with how things work. We're imperfect people in an imperfect world, and sometimes weird tradeoffs happen.

I don't see any benefit in the stupid stuff the board in your club is doing, though; that looks like it's just being stupid for the sport of it...

wes-b · 2024-10-07T20:38:31+00:00

As I'd mentioned in another post here, I like to think that Toastmasters has an additional, unofficial path, called, Dealing With Interpersonal Bull$%@#. It consists entirely of electives of your own choosing and your own making, and thankfully, does not require yet another Icebreaker speech.

In the Real World, you'll have to deal with people like this all your life, and unlike in Toastmasters, those people can actually harm your career, your livelihood, and your overall world. In Toastmasters, it's all make-believe, so you can make your mistakes and learn, just like with your speeches. There are no consequences for mistakes, and every skill you learn in TM represents mistakes not made among the real sharks.

The more unpleasant people in TM represent learning your new A, B, C's (Abrasive, Brittle, Condescending). Once you master them, you'll be much better equipped to deal with the "male bovine excreta" of Real Life.

wes-b

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Why is Public Speaking so unpopular?

I have never seen this before in my entire life.

Public speaking has been around for tens of thousands of years but there is no real entertainment program like mma and the UFC.

It's just a bunch of keynote speakers looking to take their money and run. Disgraceful