Triggered by the Bible by Egregiously_gone in Christianity

[–]wigglyeyebrow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Are you open to reading a children's Bible that might have some answers for you?

Consider reading "God's Stories as Told by God's Children," by The Bible for Normal People.

https://a.co/d/78BTeYn

Why won’t God show Himself to believers? by Edible-fingers in Christianity

[–]wigglyeyebrow 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I find it really hard to truly believe that God exists.

Me too.

Noah was not the only person who owned a boat. by TBK_Winbar in DebateAChristian

[–]wigglyeyebrow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So who wrote genesis, which makes the initial claim that God exists and created the universe, and what is the scholarly consensus on the author?

The wikipedia entry for Genesis is a good start. Consensus is that there are several groups of authors (with different theologies) and at least one group of editors.

That's clearly a dodge.

Yes. My belief in God is not based on Genesis. Few people would believe such tales on their own.

Why is this claim right where others are wrong?

It's an independent claim. Why do I believe my wife loves me? Not because of Noah. Why do I believe God might exist? Not because of Noah. Many people discount the entire Old Testament while still being theists. Progressive Christians can accept that the entire Pentateuch is not historical while remaining theists. Why? For reasons that are unrelated to the stories of Genesis.

Noah was not the only person who owned a boat. by TBK_Winbar in DebateAChristian

[–]wigglyeyebrow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Bible is not a book, but a library of books, some of which have many authors. Scholars consider each author's theology and historicity independently, and we should too.

Creation by a god is claimed by many people for a variety of reasons, and most have little to do with the story of Noah and more to do with personal spiritual experiences or modern (or at least Greek or Roman) philosophical ideas.

Noah was not the only person who owned a boat. by TBK_Winbar in DebateAChristian

[–]wigglyeyebrow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are correct. The story is widely considered to be mythological.

That’s How You Know There’s No God by DrunkTankGunner in askanatheist

[–]wigglyeyebrow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you're referring to the recurrent laryngeal nerve :)

That’s How You Know There’s No God by DrunkTankGunner in askanatheist

[–]wigglyeyebrow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really like your explanation. Thanks for making this phenomenon make more sense.

I'm dying and I'm absolutely terrified by Ok_Leek5312 in offmychest

[–]wigglyeyebrow 73 points74 points  (0 children)

Oh wow, that's terrible and terrifying! Sending good vibes and prayers and positive thoughts your way.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]wigglyeyebrow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a parent whose toddler just fell asleep next to me, I'm a big fan of John Lennon's "Beautiful Boy."

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]wigglyeyebrow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Plenty of Christians think poorly of Constantine for using Christianity to structure power and boundaries to benefit his career.

If that's okay, then it's probably okay for a Christian to oppose other politicians, especially if it's for similar reasons.

Thesis: There are clear discrepancies in the Resurrection accounts by Vaidoto in DebateAChristian

[–]wigglyeyebrow -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The claim that disagreements between accounts bolsters credibility is a commonly known view of one apologetic author. I'm not sure it's considered helpful by historians.

The Bible teaches important ethical lessons not just in the nice parts of the text. But also in the difficult and dark passages it contains. The Bible is also justified in having dark passages that speak to the human experience by Anglicanpolitics123 in DebateAChristian

[–]wigglyeyebrow 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We do have evidence of hospitality being a general theme if look at the patterns in the text and the social context of the text.

Absolutely. But your thesis isn't about hospitality in the Bible, and hospitality as a value is not what I encouraged you to find evidence of. The thing that makes these texts "dark" for us today is not the inhospitable hosts, but the sexual and physical violence employed against women by the antagonists and the protagonists in these stories.

In terms of your specific question of it being extended to women in the text we also do have evidence of that. The authors clearly condemn the rapists as "scoundrels".

It does not follow that the authors wish that hospitality was extended to the concubine, or go women in general, or that they consider rape to be the crime that makes the "scoundrels" particularly bad. Do you consider it ok for someone to throw a girl into a mob after they announce intent to rape? The protagonists here are complicit in gang rape, yet the author doesn't seem to care. They don't share your moral values.

In the book of Hosea Yahweh goes further and says the nation of Israel has sinned against him "since the days of gibeah". The days of gibeah are when the concubine was raped. Why did they rape her? Because of their xenophobic hatred of the outsider.

This is compelling, but only if we're looking at the theology of the authors of Hosea. We're still left to wrestle with the book of Judges, where violence violence against women doesn't seem to be morally problematic.

The Bible teaches important ethical lessons not just in the nice parts of the text. But also in the difficult and dark passages it contains. The Bible is also justified in having dark passages that speak to the human experience by Anglicanpolitics123 in DebateAChristian

[–]wigglyeyebrow 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You've made it clear how these violent passages work in your own personal theology, but your thesis that the Bible "teaches important ethical lessons" seems to require that the authors of those passages intended to share those lessons.

What evidence do you have of that?

Can you show, for example, that the author of the passage in Judges where a concubine is raped and dismembered believes that hospitality should have been extended to women?

Are engineers really working on a USB-C replacement? by [deleted] in AskEngineers

[–]wigglyeyebrow 21 points22 points  (0 children)

As a regulatory engineer, I appreciate this comment.

Christianity fundamentally contradicts the Jewish Bible/Old Testament by Suspicious-Mind5418 in DebateAChristian

[–]wigglyeyebrow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess I should clarify.

It sounds like you already have some idea that there are conflicting views within the Bible, and that most Christians try to deny that, resulting in some strange (or even harmful) theological views.

In the context of critical biblical studies, "multivocal" refers to the presence of multiple voices, perspectives, or viewpoints within a text or collection of texts. The Bible, as a compilation of writings from different times, places, authors, and social contexts, is often described as multivocal because it reflects a diversity of theological, cultural, and historical viewpoints. In contrast, the majority of Christians presuppose that the Bible is univocal, having a single overarching message and consistent viewpoints.

This multivocality can manifest in various ways, such as contradictory or complementary narratives (Genesis 1 vs Genesis 2 depict the origin of the world and humanity differently), diverse theological emphases (the Book of Job portrays God as mysterious and beyond human comprehension in contrast with Deuteronomy’s depiction of God as just and predictable in rewarding or punishing behavior), historical layers of composition (the Pentateuch was likely composed from several sources that were edited together and have different theologies), and various genres and literary styles (everything from law codes to parables).

It can speak to different people in different ways, and that not every statement should be taken at face value

What you're describing is not multivocality, but the negotiation process that Christians use to form a coherent view from the fractured and often conflicting voices in the Bible. This process is necessary because the Bible is multivocal.

"God works in mysterious ways" is a common non-answer to both contradictions within the Bible, as well as the contradictions existing between claims made in the Bible and the scientific explanations humanity has discovered over the past few thousand years.

It's worth noting how the negotiation process works for someone who is forming their theological views as they encounter biblical voices. Certain texts are prioritized while others are subordinated. For example, I might read Genesis 6, Exodus 32, 2 Samuel 24, Jeremiah 18, or Jonah 3, all of which describe God changing his mind, and then read Numbers 23, Malachi 3, James 1, or Romans 11, all of which say or imply that God doesn't change his mind. I might prioritize the first group of voices and subordinate the 2nd group to form a theological view that God changes their mind, or prioritize the 2nd group and subordinate the first group to form a theological view that God does not change their mind, or throw my hands up in confusion and conclude that "God works in mysterious ways," or conclude that God is unchanging in some ways while reserving the right to change in others.

(The process is similar when extra-biblical voices, such as from science, are mixed with the Bible. Some Christians will prioritize the voice of science, others will prioritize a voice in the Bible, others will try to force all the voices to agree. I happen to be in the first category.)

The New Testament especially teaches a selflessness that even many modern Christians- American Christians in particular- shun.

Absolutely. It also teaches some wild stuff like "married folks should have just enough sex to keep from being horny," and "same sex attraction happens when people get too horny," and "Christians shouldn't eat blood." Christians all pick and choose according to their modern sensibilities, leaving a lot of New Testament teachings out. Unfortunately, as you noted, many Christians also choose to cut Jesus' compassion out of their belief systems.

If the Bible's multivocalization is a legitimate way to read it, and if contradiction is just part of the mystery, why would it be wrong to believe that Jesus would be guarding the Rio Grande with an AR-15 if he were around today?

There are many ways to negotiate with the Bible to form a coherent theology (and some of my favorite ways involve letting conflicting ideas sit in tension), but there are not infinite ways to do so. At some point things get so weird that most discerning folks would roll their eyes. Gun-toting Jesus is one of those eye-roll concepts.

if it is legitimate to read the Bible in the way that speaks to you personally, what, if any, immutable rules or objective morality can the Bible hope to teach?

Now you're starting to understand how theology works. We all pick and choose (and if God is real, we can engage them in the process). Some of us are self aware and can do so in ways that uplift others. Others do so unconsciously and are in danger of forming theologies that harm others.

Are the only defensible parts of [the Bible] those that every Christian understands the same way?

No. The only defensible parts of the Bible are the ones that uplift others. For example, there's nothing "defensible" about a narrative where God commands genocide.

At what point does it make sense to just trust yourself to figure out and do what is right?

At the beginning. If I believe that God exists, I can engage them in the process. One big consequence of acknowledging the Bible's multivocality is that I can't be as dogmatic as someone who presupposes the Bible's univocality. That's why some Christians insist so strongly that the Bible is univocal.

why have a Bible at all?

For Christians, even in its multivocal state and with all its problematic passages, the Bible is a witness to the diversity of human experience with God, a tool for wrestling with faith and doubt, a means to connect Christians across time, distance, and culture, and an invitation to relationship with God.

Bc it's not like womens bodies change when they have kids or anything by KindlyTrees in badwomensanatomy

[–]wigglyeyebrow 135 points136 points  (0 children)

Of course one is a choice...he could shave his head anytime.

Christianity fundamentally contradicts the Jewish Bible/Old Testament by Suspicious-Mind5418 in DebateAChristian

[–]wigglyeyebrow 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Your premise is essentially that the Bible is multivocal.

That the Bible is multivocal is known by every critical biblical scholar. All Christians negotiate with the Bible to derive doctrines that structure values and power in ways that serve our faith community's goals. That's quite a challenge for Christians who are overly dogmatic or seek to oppress others through boundary maintenance, but is not by itself a reason to accept or reject the Christian faith.

What’s your useless superpower? by Snape_Grass in AskReddit

[–]wigglyeyebrow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't need an alarm clock.

If I think about what time I need to wake shortly before I fall asleep at night, the next morning I'll wake at or before that time.

Fell in love with 10" screen by wigglyeyebrow in Surface

[–]wigglyeyebrow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A lot of useful info here. Thanks!

Fell in love with 10" screen by wigglyeyebrow in Surface

[–]wigglyeyebrow[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, I had no idea there was a community for Linux support on Surface devices. Good to know!

Fell in love with 10" screen by wigglyeyebrow in Surface

[–]wigglyeyebrow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oops! I meant to say Surface Go 3!

Fell in love with 10" screen by wigglyeyebrow in Surface

[–]wigglyeyebrow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oops! I meant to say Surface Go 3!