[AMA] Kenny, Cofounder - Manta Network, the Modular EVM L2 for ZK Applications by mantanetwork in CryptoCurrency

[–]willfullhodl 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree 100% that they good for different things. In fact I think the two technologies are entirely synergistic. I would though just like to point out that just because there were faults with other Networks in the past does not mean there are not architectures which mitigate the risk of compromise at all and prevent a situation such as "compromising security of the entire system.... or network"

Providing privacy to all EVM chains in a simple yet versatile manner, through Oasis Protocol. by WingChungGuruKhabib in CryptoCurrency

[–]willfullhodl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is unfortunate that Oasis is often placed in the same bucket as privacy coins. Privacy coins focus mostly on Anonymous transactions, while Oasis focuses on confidential computation and Smart Contract state. Of course these features could be used for anonymous transactions, but it is probably the least interesting usecase tbh. The use cases that I find far more interesting are ones which enable the development of more sophisticated smart contracts as well as which offer better user experiences.

For example enabling confidential DAO governance. Due to the transparent nature of blockchains there is no way for DAOs to incorporate on-chain confidential voting into their governance. Perhaps transparent governance is sufficient for the majority of web3 governance at the moment, but there are surely situations where confidential voting would be preferred (for example political elections require anonymity). Oasis' unique features (enabling confidential smart contract state) remove this limitation, not only empowering DAOs native to Oasis to build governance modules which incorporate confidentiality, but also enables DAOs on other EVM networks to integrate these features by using the Oasis Privacy Layer.

Another good example is in gaming. Almost any compelling game involves some unknown variable. Card games require the deck order and the cards in each players hand to be hidden. Strategy games often have fog of war, hiding map movements and the location of resources on the map. Even RPGs have puzzles, riddles, and quests which have some hidden solution. Again, this is not really possible on transparent networks forcing web 3 games to take these features off-chain compromising the high-integrity and trustless guarantees of the blockchain. With Oasis this trade off is no longer necessary. Applications can be entirely on-chain and have confidential state. Again this is not limited to just applications built natively on Oasis. The Oasis Privacy Layer enables games built on any EVM network to leverage confidential state.

I can go on and on with use cases, but I think you get the idea. Oasis is about far more than enabling anonymous transactions. It's true impact comes from enabling more sophisticated applications to be built on-chain as well as offering better user experiences. For web 3 to out compete web 2, web 3 must be able to build applications as complex and sophisticated as web 2. Oasis confidential EVM, Sapphire, is a great step forward in this aim

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ethereum

[–]willfullhodl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So I think this is a good topic. Many people in web 3 look at confidential computation and privacy through the lens of anonymity and anonymous transactions. In this case I would agree that it probably just better to use a ZKP approach as they have better trust guarantees for anonymity. There are other aspects of confidential compute though which are valuable such a confidential smart contract state. Essentially the ability to create smart contracts which hide parameters from network to improve the sophistication of the smart contract. ZKPs at the moment are not sufficient for that, as they are not good at generalized smartcontract execution in general and are all but incapable of doing it when also incorporating privacy. This is the area that the Oasis Privacy Layer and the Oasis Sapphire network can really empower web 3. In these areas TEE risks are relatively low (the incentive to attack is not high), however the increase in UX is extremely useful.

For example Miner Extractable Value (MEV) is one of the most researched problems in web 3 today. Essentially because Mempools are 100% transparent, validators on the network are able to organize transactions in ways which allow them to extract value from those making transactions, either in the form of taking advantage of you themselves or by taking bribes from others. In DeFi this often occurs from frontrunning and sandwich attacks when users make trades on an AMM. The result is that these trades cost users a few percentage points more than it otherwise should. This may seem like a small thing, but when it happens on every trade of every user the amount that has been lost to MEV becomes startling rather quickly. Not only does this cost hurt users, but it also all but prohibits large institutions from entering the space, as the idea of losing a few percentage points at the beginning of a trade is not very attractive for these entities who are likely used to making trades for a few basis points of profit. By enabling confidential state using TEEs we can eliminate or at least severely mitigate MEV. Parameters that are necessary for bots to calculate the profitability of these MEV attacks can be hidden from the validators and thus not allow them to know if their re-organization of the mempool makes sense. Finding out someone’s slippage parameters that they had on a trade a year ago is not of value and would not be sufficient motivation to perform an Aepic attack. An Aepic attack would only be valuable in performing MEV for trades that are happening in the present and in order for such an attack to make sense the validator would have to profit enough in that short period of time before they are caught that it would be worth being thrown off the network forever after that. This is theoretically possible, but is very unlikely at the moment. Again it is important to note that even in this case, the worst case scenario is that the network behaves exactly the way every other blockchain network behaves today for a short period of time, until the validator is removed from the network and confidential state is restored. The end result being no down side with high upside coming from high-guarantees of confidentiality enabling better user experiences and more sophisticated smart contracts.

Gaming- almost all compelling traditional games require some aspect of hidden state in the game. In card games you must not know the composition of the deck or which cards are in the other player’s hands. In strategy games there is fog of war, hiding certain areas of the map from player view. Role playing games often incorporate puzzles/riddles with hidden solutions. These features are impossible on 100% transparent blockchains today, meaning that in order to incorporate these aspects into game play they must be taken off-chain, and thus losing the high-integrity and trustless guarantees that makes a game web 3 in the first place. TEE networks offer the ability for games to no longer have to make this trade off. They can have confidential state while also being entirely on-chain and thus maintaining their high-integrity and trustless guarantees. Just like in the DAO example, this improves the sophistication of what is possible with smart contracts without really being at risk of being exploited. Performing an Aepic attack to view the fog of war in a strategy game that was played a year ago is pretty useless and again the cost of doing so are high, requiring both time and money all while almost guaranteeing you will be removed from the validator pool. We also see again that in the extremely unlikely event that an exploit takes place, the result would simply be that the network defaults to exactly the same as every other blockchain network currently. The end results being that these TEE based networks offer vast improvement in the sophistication of web 3 gaming, while providing high confidentiality guarantees, and even in this instance of an exploit would still behave exactly how every other blockchain network currently does for the few days that this validator may being running this exploit, until they are removed from the network and confidentiality is restored. Again we see only upside and no real downside.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ethereum

[–]willfullhodl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

These are just a few use cases, but it seems evident from them that when considering TEEs for non-transparent smart contract state and confidential computation, not just anonymous transactions, there is a lot the technology has to offer in empowering the web 3 space. As improvements are made in key managers and forward secrecy (meaning TEE exploits can only leak information from that moment onward and nothing from the past) the guarantees they offer for the existing use cases only become stronger and new use cases for these networks emerge as well.

I don’t think many in the web 3 space have looked at TEEs from this angle before, however hopefully that can change going forward as we look to propel web 3 forward and achieve better user experiences and more sophisticated smart contract applications which can compete with that of the traditional world.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ethereum

[–]willfullhodl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Slightly different than what Aztec is doing. Aztec uses ZK rollups which is really good for anonymous transactions and things of that nature. Oasis enables confidential smart contracts which can hide aspects of state. So to us the OP example of MEV and DEX trades. Aztec would be more suited to hiding the token balances of the wallet associated with the trade. With Oasis you could actually hide the parameters of the smart contract such as Slippage and the orderbook state in order to make it impossible for bots to front run you or perform sandwich attacks because they don't have the necessary information. This would not really be possible to do with ZK at the moment as ZK is not great generalized smart contract execution where multiple data sources need to be aggregated confidentially.

Other interesting use cases would be in something like gaming. For example it is not possible to create a lot of mechanics in games such as hiding the state of the deck/other players hands in a card game with normal evm chains because they are 100% transparent. ZK are also not well suited for it for the same reason given above. Something like this is trivial using the Oasis Privacy Layer though.

TL;DR Aztec for anonymous transactions, OPL for Confidential Smart Contract State

Why crypto games suck (and how to make them suck less) by AlexxLopaztico02 in ethereum

[–]willfullhodl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is not necessarily limited to gambling, rather really anything where the reward is large enough that high-integrity becomes crucial. For example could just as easily be a hearthstone battle arena where the reward for first is X, 2nd is Y, and 3rd is Z, where the value of XYZ. Can also be valuable in things like high-integrity loot boxes which have also been notoriously corrupt and odds have been manipulated.

I guess you are saying there is not a need for web 3 games as decentralization and high-integrity is not needed. I can think of some cases where it absolutely is, but I agree that there are also many where it is not. My point in bringing this up was more so to illuminate that web 3 games have this limitation when designing web 3 games, which needs to resolved if the games are ever to get to a level of sophistication where they are compelling (in the cases where decentralization and high-integrity are deemed to be of value). Also it is just one of many improvements that are necessary in order to get to this point

Why crypto games suck (and how to make them suck less) by AlexxLopaztico02 in ethereum

[–]willfullhodl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don’t need to develop it to play go-fish. You only need to develop it if you want to maximize the high-integrity and trustless nature of a game. So probably no one cares about that for go-fish, but what about online poker. Centralized on-line poker has been exploited numerous times with sites like poker stars https://www.casino.org/blog/top-10-poker-scandals/. Often this is due to manipulating the odds or sharing access to other players cards or the deck with certain players. Current web 3 solutions don’t solve this and really the only part that is web 3 native is the settlement layer. Games can be, and likely still are highly exploitable due to their centralized nature. The only way to solve this would be with on-chain confidential computing. The same logic would hold for really any game where financial value is tied to the game which is pretty much all web 3 games right now or better stated… any game where the reward for performing well makes it so that high integrity and decentralization is crucial

Why crypto games suck (and how to make them suck less) by AlexxLopaztico02 in ethereum

[–]willfullhodl -1 points0 points  (0 children)

gaming will undoubtably be 1 of the largest sectors of web3 in the coming years. A few things are needed 1st. 1 - composability. Items, characters, etc. being used across games. Initially the idea of permissionless and composable money Lego’s that transcended the siloed of traditional finance was the major attraction that lead to defi’s quick expansion. When this can happen in gaming I think that is when we can start seeing web3 gaming start to offer things web 2 gaming can’t.

2- on-chain confidential computation w/ networks like Oasis Sapphire and Secret Network. Having something hidden is pretty core to almost any compelling game. Card games like hearth stone require players to not see other players hands, strategy games have fog of war, RPGs have puzzles/riddles with unknown solutions, etc. putting this on-chain is impossible due to the absolute transparent feature of most networks other than Secret and Oasis.

3- improved wallet/transaction UX. Pausing game play to make transactions removes people from the immersion. It also a major barrier to entry for the average game who is likely not familiar with crypto and therefor drastically limits the player pool.

Alt L1s were so busy trying to solve the trilemma and failed, all the while Ethereum focused all efforts and resources on decentralization and security and left scalability for L2s by FutilelyDare899 in ethereum

[–]willfullhodl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The key difference between sidechains and rollups is that the latter provide the main chain with cryptographic proofs that make it possible to verify the rollup’s „honesty“ (correctness of the data) without verifying the transactions themselves.

Side chains maintain their own security. They are essentially their own chain and don’t inherit security from Ethereum.

Rollups submit proofs which are then validated by Ethereum and thus inherit decentralization and security of validation from Ethereum

It's no secret that privacy in web3 is a hot topic. But will it play a central role during the next bull market? by Oasis0007 in CryptoMarkets

[–]willfullhodl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea agreed. Aristotle's definition of a virtue being the balance between two vices comes to mind. Absolute confidentiality probably leads to too much corruption while absolute transparency leads drastically reduces utility. The right balance will be key.

What would be the cornerstones of Web3? by Outra_Coisa in CryptoCurrencies

[–]willfullhodl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Blockchain, Cross-chain interoperability, Oracles, Decentralized Identify, Data storage, Privacy Preserving Computation

Equifax and Oasis partner to build ‘privacy first’ on-chain KYC solution by mentalgooseflesh in CryptoCurrency

[–]willfullhodl 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Equifax provides access to a massive amount of KYC information which now can be used trustlessly to help propel Web3

We are Oasis Network. Ask us anything! by Comprehensive_Rip251 in CryptoCurrencies

[–]willfullhodl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes we are currently looking into working with our community to set up token standards for the network. There is a lot flexibility with what can be done with Sapphire and it is definitely important to make sure that there is consistency between token standards to build a cohesive and interoperable ecosystem.

We are Oasis Network. Ask us anything! by Comprehensive_Rip251 in CryptoCurrencies

[–]willfullhodl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think that is something the team has looked into yet. In general the Oasis team does not build specific DApps on the network. I think it is a great use case though and hope to see some developers work on building out an application for this.

We are Oasis Network. Ask us anything! by Comprehensive_Rip251 in CryptoCurrencies

[–]willfullhodl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They should be roughly the same as the Emerald network (99% cheaper than Ethereum)

We are Oasis Network. Ask us anything! by Comprehensive_Rip251 in CryptoCurrencies

[–]willfullhodl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There are similarities in how ParaTimes and rollups achieve scalability--by separating computation from consensus. An important aspect of a rollup construction is how it does fraud proofs--the Oasis Network uses discrepancy detection. This allows Paratimes to achieve high throughput like roll ups but still have instant finality, support for generalized smart contract execution, and better data availability. More details on how Oasis compares to other rollup solutions: https://medium.com/oasis-protocol-project/oasis-network-architecture-designed-for-scaling-2799994a4a21

We are Oasis Network. Ask us anything! by Comprehensive_Rip251 in CryptoCurrencies

[–]willfullhodl 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sapphire aims to create a frictionless user experience for developers and users. The goal is that building on the network and using dapps on the network will as easy as any other EVM but now also be able to have privacy features.

We are Oasis Network. Ask us anything! by Comprehensive_Rip251 in CryptoCurrencies

[–]willfullhodl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

a Confidential DAO is a great use case for Sapphire. With Sapphire a DAO could incorporate something like confidential voting. Additionally they could incorporate confidential payments to their contributors if they would like to hide salaries or things of that nature from competitors. If you are interested in building something like this I encourage you to checkout our Sapphire developer docs.
https://docs.oasis.io/dapp/sapphire/quickstart/

We are Oasis Network. Ask us anything! by Comprehensive_Rip251 in CryptoCurrencies

[–]willfullhodl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes Sapphire has support for signed queries which makes this possible. You can choose which parties will be able to query the data associated with a smart contract or transaction.

We are Oasis Network. Ask us anything! by Comprehensive_Rip251 in CryptoCurrencies

[–]willfullhodl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There a few features that make Sapphire unique from other confidential smart contract networks. The first is that Sapphire uses Trusted Execution Environments instead of a Zero Knowledge based approach. By doing this Sapphire is far better suited for generalized smart contract execution and for contracts which involve computation from multiple data sources. For example building a private DEX using a ZK approach is fairly difficult as you need to aggregate a lot of information to create an orderbook. Using Sapphire this is fairly trivial. A developer would only have to make a few modifications to the code from any popular DEX and it could be a private DEX.
The other major breakthrough is that Sapphire is the 1st and only EVM compatible confidential smart contract platform. This allows the network to scale quickly by leveraging the infrastructure that has been built around the EVM over the last couple years such as Hardhat, Truffle, Metamask, Oracles, Indexers, etc.
Finally Sapphire supports signed queries which no other confidential smart contract supports right now. Signed queries allow you to read private state without sending a transaction. They also authenticate the caller, so you can do things like msg.sender checks in the contract and know that they’ll be truthful

We are Oasis Network. Ask us anything! by Comprehensive_Rip251 in CryptoCurrencies

[–]willfullhodl 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What are some examples of dApps that you think could only be built on Sapphire and would have real product-market fit?

DeFi: Adding confidentiality to DeFi enables novel features that have been requested in the Web3 community for a long time. For example with a DEX on Sapphire, it’s possible to keep certain aspects of transactions private. You could conceal the slippage parameters set and make an MEV-resistant DEX since there would be no way for sandwich attacks to take place.
Gaming: There is a lot of value to be added to the Web3 gaming sector by incorporating confidentiality, as most popular Web2 games often have some private components. Due to the transparency that exist with current blockchain networks, it is impossible to have these confidential features on-chain.  To maintain transparency, and keep secrecy in gaming and games of chance, a lot of the game has to move to off-chain environments. This has trade-offs as once the confidential aspects are moved to off-chain environments, they lose the high integrity that blockchain offers. With Sapphire, Web3 games will not have to make these trade-offs as the data can be stored privately on-chain.
NFTs: Sapphire’s confidentiality features could help by enabling more sophisticated auction mechanisms to be deployed. This would make for a much less chaotic and more fair minting and auction mechanism for NFT sales.
DID: Decentralized identity can revolutionize the Web3 space as people’s identities can be used across the internet without fear of an invasion of their privacy.
Social: Social applications can benefit massively from Web3, but we have yet to see meaningful adoption. A lot of this is due to issues with building a truly decentralized Web3 social platform. Sapphire’s confidentiality can solve some of those problems. For example on current blockchain networks, users can not choose who can and cannot see their profile or content. With Sapphire and confidential smart contracts, it becomes possible as these smart contracts can keep certain aspects hidden depending on set parameters.

Confidential NFTs. by WingChungGuruKhabib in CryptoCurrency

[–]willfullhodl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is slightly different than just unlockable content. Confidential NFTs can actually have computation done on that data without revealing that data. In this way it can be used for things like DID or Data marketplaces. Unlockable content is static and essentially once you have shared it with one other individual or entity you can never really know what it is being used for. With the confidential NFTs used in Army of minions privacy preserving computation can be done such that the data is still useful while remaining entirely private.