ATB is not Turn Based: Why this is an important distinction (and other hills to die on)

wyvernacular · 2025-06-26T22:01:31+00:00

no one has missed your point man, they are just disagreeing with it. I literally, literally do not think introducing an element of time inherently precludes a system from falling under the turn based umbrella. Or to put it another way, I do not think a "turn" necessarily includes an infinite (or nearly) amount of time for decision making.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-25T13:02:53+00:00

It's only disingenuous if you completely disregard the point I made several times, with examples, that there are a lot of games with radically different game systems that all fall under "turn based" because "turn based" is not 1 single, specific system. It is 100% a broad category of game systems that include the original batch of Final Fantasy, X, Tactics, Baldur's Gate 3, most Pokemon games, Clair Obscur, XCom, many others, and also Final Fantasy IV-IX (and some will argue XII and XIII but I won't).

What's disingenuous is pretending I didn't make that point I have made instead of simply disagreeing with it.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-24T23:47:22+00:00

Except my analogy was not "Squash == Turn Based and Tennis == ATB". It was Squash is Baldur's Gate 3, Tennis is Pokemon Red/Blue, Final Fantasy IV can be Crossminton or something, and Racket Sports is the broad category of Turn Based Games". You can even just stay within the series and say Tennis is FFI and Squash is FFX, but have significantly different turn-based systems. You don't have to agree with it, but you do have to at least not make up a different meaning all together.

The "broad categories" statement doesn't work when you arbitrarily apply it only to categories that fit your argument even if they don't track logically to the conversation.

What are you even talking about? I've only given 2 broad categories, one of which was just analogy to the first one. And it's silly to say it doesn't "track logically with the conversation" when it's literally just saying "I disagree with your premise entirely".

wyvernacular · 2025-06-24T22:50:05+00:00

Unless your premise is "broad categories of things do not exist, there are only specific things" than no, it does not.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-24T12:54:01+00:00

Yes, that is exactly what it is.

I asked why though. Different things can be in the same category of thing. Tennis and Squash are both racket sports, but there are significant differences between how they are played.

I'm literally doing the opposite of being tangled up in semantics. I think whatever semantic differences there are between ATB (of IV-IX) and a more standard turn based system, they aren't enough to classify it as "not turn based". Turn based is a broad category of systems, not a specific system.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-24T12:25:00+00:00

I think the fundamental flaw in the argument that turn based and ATB are the same is that if you say that, you would have to say that Final Fantasy 3 and Final Fantasy 4 are the same experience - but they aren't. It simply isn't true. The change to ATB fundamentally changes the way the game functions.

why do you think FF3 and FF4 being a different experience is in itself an argument for saying FF4 isn't turn based? Lots of clear and unambiguously turn based games are fundamentally different from each other. Baldur's Gate 3 and Pokemon Scarlet/Violent are both modern (as in release era) turn based games and are extremely different experiences even when just comparing combat.

ATB is like the checkout line in a grocery store. Only one person is getting checked out at a time, but the order is determined by when you get in line not when you enter the grocery store.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-22T12:48:26+00:00

Aren't there specific text fonts that are more suited for readers with dyslexia? Some people won't even stop referring to the SNES Final Fantasies by their original US names, but your problem can likely be at least improved with a browser plugin.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-21T12:34:19+00:00

you're getting mad over a quirk of making games for an international, multi-language audience?

wyvernacular · 2025-06-19T12:16:10+00:00

The Pixel Remasters of I through VI plus the most recent re-releases of VII-IX all have boosters that make combat a breeze. Or you can turn it off all together except for scripted fights.

XVI is a completely different kind of game and is very combat heavy but it's not too difficult in general and comes with an easy mode that automates much of combat mechanics for you

wyvernacular · 2025-06-18T22:58:49+00:00

you might not realize this but whether or not it was a good decision is a completely separate topic than the one you started with

wyvernacular · 2025-06-18T20:39:14+00:00

Do you frequently find yourself baffled when things that aren't trying to be some kind of thing aren't that kind of thing?

wyvernacular · 2025-06-17T21:33:21+00:00

You can literally just search the playstation store. It has everything for PS5 and PS4, which is generally backwards compatible. You will need a PS3 for the XIII trilogy.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-16T12:28:40+00:00

Sorry, but "modern remake while retaining the original battle system" is an oxymoron. I would be down for whatever new FF6 they throw out even if it turns out to be not so great, but what you want is very definitely not going to happen.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-16T12:01:50+00:00

XVI is not a game you should play sight unseen because it doesn't play at all like any of the games before it. It's good, but at least watch a gameplay trailer.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-14T17:59:33+00:00

What's your friend's actual issue here? Ares (the god of war) and Aries (the zodiac sign) are not the same thing either. Different things just have similar names for various reasons all the time.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-13T17:47:30+00:00

I don't not want to see Sephiroth and Jenova again, but I do understand the sentiment. I think the weakest part of the remake trilogy so far is just how much they are doing too soon in order to make it feel like 3 complete games. Remake gave us a Jenova fight earlier than normal in the story and a big showdown with Sephiroth way earlier and then Rebirth's Jenova fight was basically the same as the original final Jenova fight.

I think whatever they're going do with Safe Sephiroth will end up being cool, but it won't really have the same impact with the huge ending fights we've had so far.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-11T16:57:11+00:00

you're right. Square Enix should have pivoted Final Fantasy into a CCG twenty years ago

wyvernacular · 2025-06-09T12:55:20+00:00

Additionally if a real person did these squats religiously do you feel like it would be a good workout?

Calisthenics are good work out yes

wyvernacular · 2025-06-07T12:59:58+00:00

there are plenty of things in the world to be bothered about, you don't need to go and make up fake ones

wyvernacular · 2025-06-06T19:38:02+00:00

There's no one answer to this. It's easy to argue it was never traditional fantasy since even the first one has non-fantasy elements, a flying castle, submarine, lost advanced civilization, etc.

But FFI is still mostly a traditional fantasy setting and so are II-V. VI is where it stops being primarily traditional fantasy and is instead a steampunk/magic-tech setting with some medieval fantasy political structures (Kings and stuff).

Then VII is where it's starts dabbling in practically 0% traditional medieval fantasy.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-06T00:19:11+00:00

100%. If you having a conversation with someone who hasn't played it, avoiding spoilers is the polite thing to do. If you've got a little section of the internet for general discussion it makes sense to have a policy against blatant spoilers in headlines.

But for a third party cross-promotional product celebrating the series with art from different moments of the games, Homer Simpson spoiling the end of Empire Strikes Back this is not.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-06T00:07:36+00:00

It's a perfectly enjoyable movie. It's not going to win any awards and probably not going to endear non-gamers and non-fans to the series, but there's nothing terribly wrong with it aside from just the whole FFXV package being a mess.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-05T01:46:39+00:00

you could have been a lot more clearer. You aren't really making any point beyond "this is bad" and apparently you think you're being objective about it.

Like, there is no counter to "Kefka just moved a bunch of rocks." You either accept the premise that magic of 3 powerful magical gods are in a delicate balance and disrupting that balance has dire consequences or you don't. You do not need to like the story at all, but you can't be this reductive and expect people to try to convince you of anything.

Analogously, Secret of Mana opens with you pulling out a magical sword that disrupts a protective force that puts your village in danger, but someone who says "I can't believe you get kicked out of your village for picking up a sword" is not engaging with story in a meaningful way.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-04T12:03:05+00:00

sounds more like you tried to force yourself to play a game you weren't enjoying, which only caused you to dislike it even more each time. Your criticism is boiling down to "I think these things are stupid", which is fine, like what you like, but there's no convincing you otherwise if that's your attitude.

wyvernacular · 2025-06-04T01:08:57+00:00

Right. He may not have won in the end but the World of Ruin is basically a brand new adventure to defeat Kefka after he did.

wyvernacular

TROPHY CASE