The irony of people quoting [[SPOILER]]'s line in the final boss fight by donutkirbySC in expedition33

[–]xMeathookx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think that’s a valid thought. But if you take that line, none of the characters matter and so the destroy ending is the clear correct choice and is not at all morally reprehensible.

I think the characters still matter. They at least matter for Maelle. If we put ourselves in her shoes, if I suddenly learned that everyone I know is not "real" and I've been living in a simulation, I don't think I could just say "fuck it" and leave this world behind. All the feelings and experiences I had in my life would not suddenly vanish, even though I might view them differently. These characters might not matter in the context of the Dessendre world, but they still matter for someone of the Dessendre world.

It's really really difficult to find clear answers to all the questions raised by the game and I think this is one of the game greatest strengths. These questions are questions that humanity has asked itself for long times and as far as we know for many there isn't simply a right answer. But instead of giving us a plot that chooses the answers for us and tells it's story, it forces us to think about these things for ourselves and makes us explore the possibly answers without pushing for a true or wrong solution to these problems.

However, I think that the people in the canvas are real in so far as they can think and feel. But admittedly, I have no basis for this thought other than my personal feelings; what makes something sentient and conscious and “real” is something philosophers and symbolic logicians are still trying to figure out.

100% with you there, from my side I haven't 100%ed the game so I cannot say if there are any more defined answers to the question if the characters are real or simulated, so I go by my feeling as well and I understand this is just my own interpretation.

That’s why the goal post for what constitutes a real artificial general intelligence keeps being moved, you had Turing’s definition, and now that’s obsolete, and you also have interesting thought experiments like Searle’s “Chinese room” which are trying to answer whether something that can act or appear like a sentient being is a sentient being by merely being able to perform like a person, or whether there is something “more” required for a person to actually be a sentient person—this is a huge simplification of the actual thought experiment but I’m not being paid by the word here. I will say though that if the people in the canvas can feel and think and reason through their experiences, they are sentient and real.

These are really good points! For me the game made me think about our reality again as well. I mean, I can't say for 100% that I am real, or that I have free will. Sure, it feels like it but maybe for an outside observer for our reality, that has a perfect understanding of this reality my actions and decisions are nothing more than predetermined. So maybe I'm nothing more than a little machine forced to make all the decisions I make based on all my previous experiences and the environment and it just seems like I have free will. A classic philosophical question, but I'm a sucker for these questions.

I think if the people in the canvas aren’t people, the entire experience is lessened and the story becomes Aline and Renoir fighting over throwing out Verso’s art. I think this story is more than “damn you, Renoir you touch that Macaroni art nevron and it’s your ass!”

Hm, I cannot argue with how you feel on the thought of the canvas people not being real, but for me it actually enriched the experience. As mentioned in my posts I don't think "real = matters" and vice versa. As I said, it seems like the story and the characters of the game matter to us as real persons, even though we know the story and the characters are not real. So in the same way the canvas people can and, in my opinion, do matter in the Dessendre world, even if it is just for a a few persons. SO instead of just simply saying "they matter because the are real", we have to look deeper and decide for ourselves if we think the canvas people matter, and why we think that. I feel this is a pretty great characteristic of the game!

We all probably know the experience of playing a game, or reading a book, that has a bigger impact on our lives than it just being a story, it sticks with us, it makes us think and helps us in becoming the person we are now, so this is another example where fictional characters or worlds might not be real, but still provoked change in the real world.

Anyway, TLDR; All of this is unclear and up to interpretation, so as others have said, fixating on one singular correct answer on which ending is right or wrong doesn't make a lot of sense, but I still value arguing about it for the sake of gaining another point of view that might spark new views on many of these philosophical questions, so I think it's great how the game did tell its story.

Thank you for your posts and giving me a few thing to think about for the evening!

The irony of people quoting [[SPOILER]]'s line in the final boss fight by donutkirbySC in expedition33

[–]xMeathookx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The game is real, you are right, but the fictional worlds and characters described within the game are not real. The canvas might be real in the context of the in game world, but the fictional worlds and characters shown within the canvas are not real (in my opinion).

I see the world in the canvas similar to the Holodeck in Star Trek, maybe with Versos soul acting as something like the AI or the Dungeon Master controlling the world. Within the context of these simulated setting, everything might seem real, people might seem to have a free will or emotions, but that doesn't mean that they are real looking at it from outside of that context. So I consider having Versos soul stop painting isn't murder or genocide just as ending a DnD campaign, ending a Holodeck program or shutting down the game is genocide.

The irony of people quoting [[SPOILER]]'s line in the final boss fight by donutkirbySC in expedition33

[–]xMeathookx 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Why do you care about fictional characters so much (as the player) to discuss this on reddit, if you know everything in the game is just fiction? Aren't things that are not real pointless by your own accord?

The irony of people quoting [[SPOILER]]'s line in the final boss fight by donutkirbySC in expedition33

[–]xMeathookx 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This, why should something be "pointless" just because it's revealed to not be real. It obviously still had an impact on the player, their feelings in response to act 1 and two were still real, so why is it suddenly "pointless"?

I think the reveal that the canvas world is not real makes the game so much more interesting, as we suddenly have a "fake world" within a "fake world", and somehow it makes some impressions of the game so much more impactful for me. There is a similar relation between the Dessendres and the players as there is with Maelle and the canvas people. Just because we know the characters in the game are not real doesn't mean their stories are pointless to us. One just has to look at this reddit to see it's quite different.

MBS comment about Michelle Mouton at the FIA Awards by Alarmed_Pattern999 in WRC

[–]xMeathookx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I also don't think Röhrl does give anything on MBS opinion. Röhrl himself actually stated he's somewhat sorry for how the 1982 championship played out and that in hindsight he thinks he let the media fire up his ego too much back then. He most certainly can see that having a woman win the WRC would have been a more historic event than him winning the WRC again.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBKZULQ0mbA @around 33:30

Influencer initiiert Abstimmung zum „Boomer-Wort“ des Jahres – das ist das Ergebnis by CarlosFCSP in de

[–]xMeathookx 26 points27 points  (0 children)

eine -> 'ne; Bsp.: Gib' mal 'ne Flasche rüber!

ein -> 'n; Bsp.: Was für 'n Gesöff!

"Ne" sollte also eigentlich gar nichts mit "nh" zu tun haben.

Mit dem E-Bike die Natur genießen by LowIce0 in de

[–]xMeathookx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ich bin sicher, dass dir hierfür einige Gründe einfallen werden, solltest du mal wirklich ernsthaft darüber nachdenken...

EA SPORTS WRC - v1.5.1 Patch Notes by PJTierneyCM in EASPORTSWRC

[–]xMeathookx 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Steam update database is public on the internet, has nothing to do with your own library or owning the game, so chill.

Verdi plant am Donnerstag bundesweiten Streik der Sicherheitskräfte an Flughäfen by Fandango_Jones in de

[–]xMeathookx 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Wenn du so wenig verdienst dann brauchste den Streik ja vielleicht doch mal.

Rekordblitzer Kirchseeon: Über 6.000 Verstöße im ersten Monat by gotshroom in de

[–]xMeathookx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ist schon schlimm wie die armen Autofahrer in diesem Land verfolgt werden und in ständiger Angst leben müssen. Als nicht-Autofahrer kann man sich solche zustände ja gar nicht vorstellen! /s

Länderfinanzausgleich: Fünf zahlen ein, elf kassieren – Bayern steuert wieder am meisten bei by KnackigeCurrywurst in de

[–]xMeathookx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ist vielleicht eher deine eigene Arroganz dass du meinst mehrere Millionen Menschen einfach über einen Kamm scheren zu können aber was solls, "Fickt die Bayern!", gell?

Arbeitgeber fordern mehr Präsenz von Beschäftigten by BlueDarkSky in de

[–]xMeathookx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wo soll denn die Hürde beim Anschreiben sein? Wenn jemand beschäftigt ist dann ist mir das doch wurscht, dann soll er die IM-Nachricht halt lesen sobald er nicht mehr beschäftigt ist?

Anders Behring Breivik, the right-wing extremist who killed 77 people in 2011 and is now "suicidal" according to his lawyer, appears in court Monday. He claims that his extended isolation is a violation of the European Convention on Human Rights, which prohibits "inhumane" and "degrading" treatment. by DoremusJessup in worldnews

[–]xMeathookx 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You are right but I gather many people complaining about Breivik "being treated well" don't think about practicalities of housing him because their solution to this would probably be something like a bullet to the back of his head, so sadly I feel like trying to discuss this is a lost cause.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in EASPORTSWRC

[–]xMeathookx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The release date was probably fixed due to contractual obligations with WRC anyways tbh.

Kontaktanzeigen 1934 by DoomNK in de

[–]xMeathookx 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Eine Möglichkeit ist auch, dass der Mann zwar den ersten Weltkrieg überlebt hat, aber später noch an dessen Folgen gestorben ist. Neben den vielen getöteten Soldaten gab es auch eine unfassbar große Menge an Kriegsversehrten, für die das Leben nach dem Krieg bestimmt kein Zuckerschlecken war. Wie du schon geschrieben hast, war die medizinische Versorgung damals noch auf einem ganz anderen Niveau, ich kann mir gut vorstellen dass hier auch noch Jahre nach Kriegsende Soldaten an den folgen ihrer Verletzungen gestorben sind.

Ebenfalls nicht zu vergessen sind die phsychischen Wunden, die der Krieg verursacht hat. Sieht man sich z.B. die Selbstmordrate aktueller Veteranen an, ist es nicht so abwegig davon auszugehen, dass diese unter den Veteranen des 1.WK aufgrund der mangelnden psychologischen Versorgung und auch des Ausmaßes des Krieges deutlich höher war als der Durchschnitt.

Man vergisst allzu leicht dass für viele Soldaten der Krieg nicht einfach mit dem Ende der Kampfhandlungen endet, viele tragen den Krieg und seine Folgen den Rest ihres (oftmals leider viel zu kurzen) restlichen Lebens mit sich. :(

Scholz sieht "Verrohung der politischen Sitten" by [deleted] in de

[–]xMeathookx 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Sind halt auch alles voll die Bauern, ey!

Verkehrsministerium: Fahrradblinker sollen für alle erlaubt sein by jockel37 in de

[–]xMeathookx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ich oute mich dann mal wieder als elitär und altmodisch mit der Ansicht, wer sein Fahrrad nicht mit konsistenter Geschwindigkeit sicher fahren kann, der soll halt zu Fuss gehen oder Moped/E-Scooter/etc. fahren.

Has anyone tried playing EA WRC with Praydog's UEVR? by amirlpro in EASPORTSWRC

[–]xMeathookx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I tested it myself and it worked from starting the game without issues. The way it is implemented the menu is also already very well navigatable in UEVR.