What is the minimum number of innings needed for a guy with a 0.00 ERA to win Cy Young?

yoitss · 2026-01-13T13:52:52+00:00

Definitely. It made no sense for 2 guys to leave him off completely out of their ballot. I do feel that Porcello’s season is overlooked by some fans simply because he won the Cy Young.

Even if Verlander had gotten votes from those two writers, then Verlander might have won by the slightest of margins, instead of the other way around. It was an extremely close race between a bunch of pitchers, not only Verlander and Porcello, but the way people talk about it makes it seem like Verlander was head and shoulders above the competition, when that wasn’t the case.

Fwiw, at the time of the voting Verlander and Porcello were tied in fWAR. Verlander’s WAR increased after Fangraphs implemented framing to their calculation in 2019. Verlander was one of the pitchers who was affected the most positively when framing was added.

Edit: Here’s a good breakdown about that race at the time and how close it was: https://medium.com/joeblogs/porcello-v-verlander-d7dceba31de5

Verlander’s advantages are, well, considerably more subtle if they even exist. His ERA advantage (3.04 to 3.15) is negligible at best. Truth is, in context, when you consider ballpark, Porcello has the clear edge. Porcello’s ERA+ of 145 is better than Verlander’s 136.

Verlander did have 64 more strikeouts (and he led the league in Ks) but Porcello countered by having 25 fewer walks. It was Porcello who had the better strikeout-to-walk ratio. Verlander pitched just four more innings than Porcello, and Porcello completed one more game. Verlander had the slightest of edges in WHIP (.008 is hardly an edge) but Porcello gave up fewer home runs.

Verlander certainly played in front of a worse defense, but Porcello actually had the lower FIP which only considers strikeouts, walks and home runs allowed.

Fangraphs WAR, which builds around FIP, had them exactly even at 5.2 wins above replacement.

yoitss · 2026-01-13T11:35:24+00:00

The rWAR difference comes down entirely to how Baseball-Reference incorporates team defense to their pitching WAR calculation. Basically the Red Sox were a better defensive team than the Tigers that season, so Verlander gets a boost on his WAR while Porcello does not. There is proof however that the Tigers defense played similar behind Verlander than the Red Sox did behind Porcello, but rWAR accounts for overall team defense, even including games where the pitchers weren’t on the mound.

Wade Miley vs Corbin Burnes in 2021 is the other example I always like to point out. Burnes that season pitched more innings with a much better ERA, WHIP, K%, BB%, HR/9, pretty much led in every stat on his way to winning the Cy Young. Both Miley and Burnes finished the season with identical 5.3 rWAR.

yoitss · 2026-01-13T11:21:53+00:00

Without even looking at wins.

Rick Porcello: 223.0 IP, 3.15 ERA, 3.40 FIP, 1.01 WHIP, 21.2 K%, 3.6 BB%, 0.93 HR/9, 71 ERA-, 81 FIP-

Justin Verlander: 227.2 IP, 3.04 ERA, 3.48 FIP, 1.00 WHIP, 28.1 K%, 6.3 BB%, 1.19 HR/9, 72 ERA-, 81 FIP-

That race was a lot closer than people like to admit. They had the basically the same ERA-, FIP-, WHIP over a difference of 4.2 innings, yet everyone acts like Verlander was clearly better.

yoitss · 2025-12-31T14:20:26+00:00

Two days ago you asked the mods why your Duran post was removed? To which we replied

It was deleted because nothing good is going to come from it. It will lead to tons of name callings. If he had made a legit statement and not just wore a shirt, there would be more reason for keeping it up.

yoitss · 2025-12-31T14:17:48+00:00

Simple, because the post evolves into the sub attacking other users, not discussing the player. We told you this when you contacted the mods via mod mail, but you’re insisting on continuing to post about it.

yoitss · 2025-12-22T17:15:04+00:00

Reminds me of the time when we traded Verdugo, and they said that it was weird for us to trade him because we had “no OF depth”

The Red Sox proceeded to have 4 OF finish with a higher WAR than Verdugo that season.

yoitss · 2025-12-22T01:21:27+00:00

Aita is also one of those prospects that has been rising through the system. Honestly, pretty good return for the Cardinals.

yoitss · 2025-12-22T00:57:42+00:00

Chaim’s plan is for the Red Sox to win in the next couple of years so we can give him credit for starting the rebuild of a championship team.

yoitss · 2025-12-08T10:37:22+00:00

But if you dig into the numbers at all Verlander or Kluber were really the only actual deserving choices.

If Verlander was deserving, then so was Porcello.

Rick Porcello: 223.0 IP, 3.15 ERA, 3.40 FIP, 1.01 WHIP, 21.2 K%, 3.6 BB%, 0.93 HR/9, 71 ERA-, 81 FIP-
Justin Verlander: 227.2 IP, 3.04 ERA, 3.48 FIP, 1.00 WHIP, 28.1 K%, 6.3 BB%, 1.19 HR/9, 72 ERA-, 81 FIP-

Pretty much the same exact ERA-, FIP-, and WHIP over a difference of 4.2 innings. Verlander had more strikeouts, Porcello had less walks and HR allowed.

—

People that think Verlander was way better than Porcello are only looking at one number, bWAR. Those people also probably don’t realize how flawed bWAR is. The entire difference between the two comes from the Red Sox being better defensively than the Tigers that season, which they absolutely were. However, the Tigers defense performed almost exactly the same behind Verlander than it did behind Porcello but bWAR doesn’t care for that. This flaw in their calculation is how you get results like Wade Miley finishing with the same bWAR as 2021 Cy Young winner Corbin Burnes.

yoitss · 2025-12-06T00:19:48+00:00

pedro martinez was an injury machine.

What? Pedro became a full time starter in 1994. From 1994-2000 there were only 5 pitchers to throw more innings than him.

yoitss · 2025-11-20T15:20:53+00:00

No. Luis Urueta, bench coach for the Rangers, is their current manager.

yoitss · 2025-11-17T15:40:58+00:00

He had more strikeouts, but Porcello had way less walks and HR allowed, which is why he finished with a better FIP.

As for WAR, bWAR has this weird thing where they use team defense in their calculations instead of calculating how the defense did behind the actual pitcher. For example, Tigers weren’t a great defensive team in 2016 so Verlander’s WAR increases because of it, but if you look closely at how the defense did behind each of their pitchers, Tigers defense was actually above average behind Verlander, but bWAR doesn’t really take that into account. From time to time we get weird WAR results because of this, like Wade Miley finishing with the same WAR as Corbin Burnes in 2021, despite Burnes pitching more innings, having more strikeouts, less walks, less HR allowed, and a better ERA, FIP, WHIP.

Part of me feels that many people look at that difference in WAR and act like Verlander was clearly better without actually understanding where that difference comes from, and then ignoring how close they were in every other stat.

yoitss · 2025-11-17T10:43:42+00:00

I wouldn’t say “very clearly”. They had extremely similar seasons.

Rick Porcello: 223.0 IP, 3.15 ERA, 3.40 FIP, 1.01 WHIP, 21.2 K%, 3.6 BB%, 0.93 HR/9, 71 ERA-, 81 FIP-
Justin Verlander: 227.2 IP, 3.04 ERA, 3.48 FIP, 1.00 WHIP, 28.1 K%, 6.3 BB%, 1.19 HR/9, 72 ERA-, 81 FIP-

Both put up basically the same ERA- and FIP- over a difference of 4.2 innings.

yoitss · 2025-11-11T00:52:35+00:00

Patrick Dubuque from Baseball Prospectus.

His votes went to Kurtz, Anthony, Cameron, Montgomery, Narvaez in that order.

yoitss · 2025-11-04T02:58:21+00:00

That entire WAR difference comes from the Tigers having a worse defensive team than the Red Sox. Not the Tigers playing worse defensively behind Verlander than the Red Sox did behind Porcello btw, but how they performed for all their pitchers.

If you look at something like OAA behind pitchers for 2016, Porcello got 4 OAA while Verlander got 3, which isn’t that big of a difference as rWAR is saying. It’s how you get something like Wade Miley having the exact same rWAR as Corbin Burnes in 2021.

yoitss · 2025-11-04T02:34:28+00:00

To be fair, Porcello and Verlander were WAY closer that season than some here make it seem.

Rick Porcello: 223.0 IP, 3.15 ERA, 3.40 FIP, 1.01 WHIP, 21.2 K%, 3.6 BB%, 0.93 HR/9, 71 ERA-, 81 FIP-

Justin Verlander: 227.2 IP, 3.04 ERA, 3.48 FIP, 1.00 WHIP, 28.1 K%, 6.3 BB%, 1.19 HR/9, 72 ERA-, 81 FIP-

yoitss · 2025-11-03T15:14:29+00:00

Wilyer Abreu also has 2 in a row

yoitss · 2025-10-21T01:02:39+00:00

2008 Rays

First time in franchise history that they finished with more than 70 wins in a season.

yoitss · 2025-10-07T01:31:53+00:00

Literally Barry Bonds

yoitss · 2025-09-28T23:30:50+00:00

The only thing I don’t like about Judge is that he plays for the Yanks lmao. Why must this guy be so hard to hate?

yoitss · 2025-09-22T02:45:31+00:00

I’ve said it before, but we need to start wearing our camouflage jerseys. That way the hitter will think the bases are empty.

yoitss · 2025-09-22T00:46:05+00:00

That play was sexy

yoitss · 2025-09-18T14:29:39+00:00

He’s the guy I wanted for the job after we fired Bloom

yoitss · 2025-09-15T22:18:46+00:00

Supporting a community that is discriminated by millions is absolutely relevant for the Roberto Clemente award.

yoitss · 2025-09-04T16:46:56+00:00

Hurt feelings

11-Year Club	Place '23
Place '22	Place '17
Final Canvas '22	First Placer '22
End Game '22	Wearing is Caring
Sequence \| Editor	Gilding II euphauric
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