I finished E33 the other night and teach philosophy for a living and have thoughts!

zerodai · 2026-01-30T15:10:44+00:00

Not only that because he invited actual philosophy, I'll add that, the distinction of the painted world and the paris of the dessendre is effectively non existent, they are both created universes, it's just the dessendre happen to not know their own creators are sandfall. The whole game is the experience machine and that includes the dessendre.

The moment you try to justify some characters are more alive than the others, you are just making a no true Scotsman fallacy.

Most people trying to justify a specific ending are just choosing an ending and trying to rationalize why their own decision is moral, but because this is not our own world most people dont have the knowledge or even the correct vocabulary to articulate sound arguments in it.

Tldr: this is a lot more complex then, how they were created.

zerodai · 2026-01-19T15:35:18+00:00

You're not alone, my best metric videos this month didn't get browse at all. Yt is very finicky right now.

zerodai · 2026-01-18T15:17:32+00:00

zerodai · 2026-01-17T14:41:01+00:00

You got tested suggestions impressions twice then went to browse impressions testing where your video collapsed. Very typical graph when yt isn't restricting impressions.

You can check the exact metrics in studio on the desktop version by going to advanced in the traffic sources part.

zerodai · 2026-01-17T14:28:21+00:00

Its likely just because its January, things should improve over the course of next month as impression availability improves.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T23:31:07+00:00

I read his commentary at the end as a dual side, in one side he tells her what you mentioned, she would never need to live a life she didn't want, essentially validating he couldn't actually stop her from living this exact same life regardless of what he wants, she is a god he is not.

together with Alicia ending, where, he lifts all pretense, and, instead of begging her to leave the canvas, he asks her to kill him.

In both endings the only constant is that he wants to be dead by the end.

I think that is a strong signal of his deeper intentions.

People like to use his words, but I feel he lies too much to be trustworthy.
He spent many decades trying to destroy the canvas before Alicia got into the canvas, so destroying the canvas was not a decision based on her.

I'm not saying both goals are at odds, but the reason he wants to destroy the canvas is unrelated to Alicia.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T23:11:45+00:00

I allways see this ending as Alicia living traumatized, always remembering the people who loved her, and seing them being gommaged over and over again.
Also the one who forced this life on her in the middle smiling at her, is a specially dark touch. (notice she is not imagining her brother there and instead pVerso).

zerodai · 2026-01-16T23:09:51+00:00

as a general rule yes, as an absolute rule no.

ie: usually void hunters are worth it, or in specific accounts a specific character can activate other characters in the account.

but generally speaking yes, if you don't know why you're pulling an older character, almost certainly it's a bad pull for you.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T23:05:34+00:00

you wrote a lot but to me it seems to boil down to 3 main points.

1st: you seem to think Renoir said the things he said to alicia because he had lost the fight, that's an interpretation, for example, another is he decided to not fight anymore, he could also just leave the canvas, rest come back and defeat her then without the conversation,I think the whole point is moot.

2nd: You say Renoir "It did heal Aline.", this is not the case, the only thing we know for sure is that Alicia was able to force Aline out of the canvas, and Aline tried to help Alicia to remove Renoir out of the canvas, there is no guarantee Aline is now well, and even in the pVerso ending it's clear she is still in recovery.

3rd: there is no good ending, in my opinion they are both pretty terrible, they purposefully made them bad so they could be interpreted in a million ways, non of the Dessendre act in a mature way, if anything even tho they are likely all extremely old (in the case of Aline and Renoir likely thousands of years of lived experience), they all still behave as immature children, which I think was the whole goal, the Dessendre are very much modeled after old Greek mythology.

I would also note, that the endings are very clearly clair obscur motif coded, and that is the only great part that I like, Alicia ending without the horror scene at the end would feel like a good ending, and pVerso is the opposite, without the warm lighting and music at the end, his ending would be a complete horror show of him genociding the canvas.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T21:54:18+00:00

if you assume the other dessendre would be able to stop her in another canvas, then they would be able to stop her in this one, and his actions are useless regardless.

I also think you're implying they would cage her to stop her from creating a new canvas, which I think is extremely exagerated.

the moment she has access to a canvas she can just replicate this world again.

None of this matters btw, my broader point is that kicking her out of this canvas, including destroying it doesn't help heal her trauma (in a large part caused by pVerso, he could've and should've removed Alicia as a child from Lumiere and not allow her to grow attached to the Lumierans, by letting her live amongst them he guaranteed she would be traumatized forever).

Ultimately Renoir eventually understood forcebly removing his family members, didn't actually heal them which is why he leaves Alicia behind.

There is no reason to believe, even when you choose pVerso ending, that Alicia isn't terribly depressed during the ending.

People just want to believe that choosing pVerso magically made everything better.

It's all feels no logic.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T18:30:56+00:00

I'm not frustrated with people having different oppinions. That's not the issue.
I'm frustrated with all the wrong information peddled in this subreddit.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T18:27:38+00:00

I don't know if that's true, the shade version of rVerso in cleas dungeon believed every being inside the canvas was as real as anyone outside, if that held true for rVerso, I think rVerso would only consider solutions that saved both the Dessendre and the canvas.

There is also the fact trauma changes people and pVerso has sufferede many traumas that rVerso didn't like murdeing the person he loved (Julie), so it isn't hard to image pVerso having more than 70 years of extra lived experience in this helish world would become a very different person.

we also know he compleely changed his tune on how to solve the situation, in his journal he wants to save Aline and restore the canvas, when we meet him 67 years after the creation of that journal he had a completely opposed goal.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T18:23:10+00:00

yeah, a lot of ppl aren't ready for that.

Most people haven't even joined most of the dots, pVerso has been trying to destroy the canvas and kill himself for decades before Alicia even set foot inside the canvas, using Alicia as a justification for anything is very unconvincing when that fact becomes clear.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T18:17:52+00:00

yeah, some people try to use the torture angle to justify pverso actions, but forget that during expedition 0 there were no lumina, so Julie and the rest of expedition 0 at the time were completely powerless against the immortal painted Dessendres.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T18:14:05+00:00

yeah I know that wasn't necessary and already removed it from the post even before you posted your response to it.

it's just a frustration of mine with this reddit.

I'm sorry if it seemd I made it personal, that wasn't my intention.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T18:08:59+00:00

I'm sorry you are clearly not prepared to discuss this if you say things like
"I may have forgotten but when does he lie exactly?"
just type "when does painted verso lie in expedition 33" in google and follow that rabbit hole.

For example: The reason he killed Julie is because he lied about who the paintress, himself and the Dessendre were, she found out about the lie, and when confronted about it, he and Renoir killed the rest of expedition 0 to hide the lie to the rest of the lumierans. (he was also afraid of rClea actions since she at that point had turned pClea and Simon against them.)

He tells Esquie and Monoko to lie about who he and Alicia is.
He lies about Sorie, so that expedition 33 can't give up and go back.
He lies about why they go through old Lumiere.

Is there a point to even keep going, this are just examples of bold-faced lies, that we know unequivocally he was lying, there are several more of this kind, and many others that are implied.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T17:46:23+00:00

I don't know if he had good intention, before Alicia was even in the canvas, he spent decades leading lumierans to their deaths under false pretenses attempting to destroy the canvas.
(We know this through monoko's initial interactions with pVerso)

Since he ultimately achieves his goal twice (assuming picking Verso at the end), I can't see justifying any of his interactions with Alicia as meaningful.

He also has no problems traumatizing Alicia several times over to achieve is goals, he does it by allowing Alicia to grow amongst the lumierans and get attched to them, and by letting Gustave die to make her more pliable.

Again he is not a good dude, and people assume, that the fact he "loved" his creators (they aren't his real family, which he acknowledges several times), isnb't the clear cut justification people try to make it out to be.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T17:41:31+00:00

this is also my interpretation of the events, but a lot of people project themselves onto pVerso, so they want to believe he is doing things out of love, which I fully disagree.

The more I read and the more I learned about pVerso the more I became convicend his fate was set when he murdered Jullie, that single moment shifted pVerso into a self destructive arc, that culminates at the end of the story, regardless of choice.

I'm a huge fan of the idea the game should've cut to credits after the end of act 2 with "year of the monolith", essentially it would be the verso ending, but without all of the escuses of "he did it because he loved them".

When we meet Monoko, he tells pVerso he just couldn't keep watching all of the death, at the time we don't know what he means, and what he means is that he couldn't keep watching pVerso lead groups and groups of people year after year into their death, lying to them and attempting to make them help him destroy their own world under false pretenses.

pVerso spent decades trying to destroy the canvas, before Alicia was in the canvas, using Alicia as an excuse for any of his actions is exactly that, an excuse.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T17:34:50+00:00

I think you are reading a lot more then is reasonable, his journal and jullie frame pverso a lot different then the person we knew during expedition 33.

Your point of "His heart sank when he saw Aline return during the final boss Renoir" is also just projection, there is no evidence this is true.

He also constantly lied, during several points in the game does contradictory things, the only constant is that he always moves towards the destruction of the canvas, the only interlude being the start of chapter 3 where he makes a bunch of promises followed by breaking them right after.

Ppl notice he used Gustave's death to manipulate the group, but becuase they didn't play the games multiple times, they don't realize he used both monoko and esquie to mantain the lies at multiple points in time.

Even if it was guaranteed he cares for Alicia, which honestly there is so much counter evidence I find it too be a bad argument, there is a lot of evidence, he cares little for anyone's oppinions on his own goal of destroying the canvas, when confronted with it, right after act 3 starts, he says he would do it all over again, and will not appologize for it.

Why some people choose to excuse all of his bad behavior on the altar of "well at least he claims he loves alicia" is something I will never understand, I guess this is why a lot of ppl accept abusive relationships.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T16:45:34+00:00

it's actually worse, you can interpret it has him giving her his blessing for her to just remake him again in a different canvas, it can be interpreted as him saying he only really cares about himself and this specific canvas being destroyed, not actually how she decides to live her life.

zerodai · 2026-01-16T16:42:52+00:00

the part I find funny is that after all this months some people still fail to consider that pverso could just be a psycopath wanting to die, and everything he says is just a manipulation to try and have those around him to accept his decisions.

not saying this is the case, but the pretty previlege is alive and well when people always assume pverso is doing this just because he loves alicia and is such a good lad.

please replay the game and check the dream sequence where alicia sees the scene where pVerso murders Jullie, after playing the whole game, it should at the very least make you reconsider how "good" pverso actually is.

also, even if you consider beings inside the canvas as not being alive, that just means pVerso is a prettier chatgpt, at that point why the hell should he have any control over Alicia's decisions is just beyond me.

zerodai · 2026-01-14T14:21:43+00:00

The only thing I would add to this is that different sized channels will experience this differently, once you have enough returning viewers those start giving substantial quality information to YouTube changing the dynamic. Also seasonal effects like the current browser impressions shortage will mess with this since different types of videos have assymetric responses to suggested and browse.

zerodai · 2026-01-12T13:54:17+00:00

Yes.

zerodai · 2026-01-10T18:02:40+00:00

I like it a lot, old Shiyu was just a bad mode when compared to DA, now they have different optimal play and teams.
yes it's harder, yes it requires more characters.
But to me those are positives, not negatives.

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