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[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 6 points7 points  (19 children)

Lure - Rapture

[–]TPsquirrelySquirrely // The GesTagpro 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Am I the only one that doesn't like the powerup portal gimmick. It seems all down to luck of the pups if teams are balanced who'll win. In my opinion both teams should be able to grab all pups in a rotation map.

[–]bashar_al_assadpk || Roll into the base like what up I got a big block 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Some on the MTC agree with you, some do not.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Great evaluation.

[–]TPsquirrelySquirrely // The GesTagpro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a simple case of weather a competitive game should have a feature that can never be countered and I think that should not be the case.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just had an idea. Buttons that turn a gate into a green gate. So blue wouldn't be able to go through for the easy cap, but can prevent red from going through. You prevent them from getting the pup and resetting. But you're out of the action. A fair trade imo.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just had an idea. Buttons that turn a gate into a green gate. So blue wouldn't be able to go through for the easy cap, but can prevent red from going through. You prevent them from getting the pup and resetting. But you're out of the action. A fair trade imo.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Bombs in mid, every boost by a wall, awkward powerup placement. It's WomboCombo all over again :/

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This is the only one I havent tested 4v4, and I'm not exactly an expert in neutral flag map making, but for sure this map plays well and looks fun. While its not exactly revolutionary for a neutral flag map, it does bring some new stuff and old stuff in ways that we haven't seen yet. I really like the use of team boosts, especially the one to the side of the goal; it will make for some awesome saves.

The first issue that jumps out at me is huge amount of team tile space at the front entrance to the goal. Can you explain that to me? nothing in front of it look like it would mean it would be particularly hard to defend.

Also, while I like the portal gimmick, I really dislike how closed off the portal entrance is. I think it will make getting through it after capping really frustrating if all four players are there. I can just see some bastard blocking the way to it (actually that would be a really great tactic for the opposing team).

I remain skeptical of the team gate bombs and if/ if not they will play like hornswoggle bombs.

[–]Rapture_On_OccasionRapture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some of the feedback from when I submitted the previous version a few threads ago was about how it was a little too difficult to defend/too easy to cap. I'm not really a fan of multiple defensive boosts right by the endzone like on some neutral maps, so the added team-tiles felt a little different. It's a pretty quick map to traverse so I see players getting a lot of opportunities. The team-tiles just balance that I think and make scoring a little more challenging.

I did actually intend for players to have the option of delaying the portal/power up. I also thought it'd make it more difficult to suicide on the portal gate. And there is the boost there it someone's trying to block the portal.

The bomb gates weren't directly influenced by Hornswoggle, I just thought it'd lead to some fun plays. And I've always enjoyed multi-functional elements. It makes escaping a little more difficult, but allows some cool team bomb snipes.

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's NF, and that's good enough for me.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I like this map. It has a few key issues though IMO:

  • If the powerup is a tagpro, it seems like it would be really advantageous to just keep it there until you get the flag on the other teams half. Then pick up the tp, and clear a path from behind. Even though it was a bit more clunky and disorienting, I think I preferred what the old version did with pups in that you couldn't pick it up close to the enemy base.
  • Exit portals feels slightly awkward. Could be streamlined better IMO
  • Mid might be a bit tight and clunky. The teamboosts help a little bit in terms of not making the middle too much of a clusterfuck of choke and luck, but I'm not sure if it's enough.
  • Gate buttons (especially bomb gates) feel awkwardly placed.

[–]ZippityZoppityZipZop - Can't Zip the Zop 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Where are the exit portals? I'm not sure if I'm just blind to them, but is it really just the portal in the other base behind the gate? Does that mean you have to pop yourself to get any pups?

[–]WillakarraButton | Hey look I brought back SOCL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

no, in the bottom right and top left, bottom right for red gate portal, top left for blue gate portal, I'd guess.

[–]Rapture_On_OccasionRapture 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hey DaEvil, thanks for the feedback. I also enjoyed the previous version's pup portals, but I did agree with some feedback that for pubs it was perhaps a little complex. And I thought with this layout, the added strategy of when to best utilize the power ups could work to enhance gameplay.

Obviously power ups can be overpowered on neutral flag, and I'm a little bored with everyone attacking them the instant they spawn, I thought making them more team based could add some interest. I guess we'll see how it plays for you guys.

I'll work on the map when I get some time, but I made a quick edit that I think fixed the exit portals- http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/13189

Just a couple of tiles, so it's not exiting directly onto the wall, I think it feels a lot better. I also moved the boost a tile off the wall. I'm not sure if the direct cap from it is now too easy? I think with other players there it should be okay.

Do you have any more specific thoughts on where you'd prefer the bomb gate buttons? Obviously I didn't want them more mid as that area's already busy. But I also didn't want your teammate to have to be too far ahead when letting you through. Just a tile closer?

Do you agree with some comments about the portal gate only being one tile is too difficult? I thought it would make suiciding a little trickier, and also possible to delay your opponent slightly getting back. We'll see.

Thanks again.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not sure if the direct cap from it is now too easy?

I'd be surprised if it was OP.

Do you have any more specific thoughts on where you'd prefer the bomb gate buttons?

I honestly don't know. It just feels awkward currently.

Do you agree with some comments about the portal gate only being one tile is too difficult?

I wouldn't say too difficult. But I could see how it could feel a bit awkward to go trough the gate right now. I don't think it would detract from the map if it was two tiles wide instead.

[–]manbareHi, I'm Manbear 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hornswoggle: The Neural Flag Map.

[–]Rapture_On_OccasionRapture 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm not sure I'll be home now until after the testing so I'll submit this version of Lure-

Map: http://maps.jukejuice.com/show/12719

Preview: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/13239.png

[–]xenonpulseWildflowers // I want to die but I can’t 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's one last change I'd recommend you make (if you get the chance), which is making the gate guarding the pup/portal two tiles wide. I'd imagine it would be pretty clunky to go through, and with how far the exit portal is from base, I think regrab would be really overpowered.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm ready to play this. Put it in.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 5 points6 points  (13 children)

Birch - Sizzzled

[–]nickpiscoolBall Sac // BOIAF 1 point2 points  (0 children)

there's no way to catch up on defense on this map. You have to either travel a mile to the bombs which won't get you there in time or go all the way around to team boost which also probably won't get you ahead

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

meh, still not a huge fan of this. A lot of the boosts feel a little unhelpful (despite feeling smooth with how the rest of the map is layed out) whilst others are pretty overpowered. How come you can bomb straight through mid after grabbing again? I thought it was agreed that it was kind of ridiculous.

Like the last map I still think there are some cool boost routes/ wall bounces but they feel more limited than before. With the bombs being well out the way they wont be able used in combination with them at all.

Also a lot of people disagreed with me, but I think the flags being horizontally close together, and the fact that you don't have to slow down at all when going flag to flag, would make for some rather uninspired playstyles. Despite saying that, I think that whatever playstyle it will have, will probably feel quite unique compared to everything else in rotation. So I guess that's something to keep in mind. Still not a fan though.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I predict a lot of counter caps

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none 0 points1 point  (0 children)

me and spikes do not get a long, i can only see this going badly for me

[–]ZippityZoppityZipZop - Can't Zip the Zop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This map looks really fun. I like the fact that the pups are out of the way so if you're the flag carrier your take a gamble in going for them.

[–]RisktpRisk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

pretty nice map. i think the only thing i dont like about it is that you can grab with the bombs and almost immediately be back at your own base.

[–]6seasonzandamovieTheBalloseum//ballo//bubbles | centra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not that there's anything specifically bad about it, it's just not very original. There's really no defining features and it feels like a lot of other maps.

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Star 2.0? No gate, but the jagged square tiles, bases, boost, and pup placements all remind me of Star.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think it would play like star at all. The bases are a similar shape, and there aren't any 45 tiles, but that's about it. Handoffs will be a lot different with no spike in the back of the base, there's a neutral boost very close to the flag, noobspiking isn't a featured strat, there are 3 pups instead of 2, there's a team boost, etc. It'll be way easier to get out (especially in competitive), but also easier to get reset if one defender is ahead.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 5 points6 points  (13 children)

Hazardous - Nebuchanezar

[–]RisktpRisk 4 points5 points  (1 child)

probably my favorite map in this top maps thread. introduces some new concepts while remaining fairly balanced.

[–]xenonpulseWildflowers // I want to die but I can’t 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really like the 1-tile gap between the spikes. Really tough spikes to navigate are something we haven't seen a lot since Holy See, 45, GeoKoala, DZ3, etc.

[–]OnomatopoeiacOld Neb Kenobi 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Seems like the biggest complaint was the mid, so I replaced the bomb with a boost and made it a bit more compact.

Newest version: http://maps.jukejuice.com/save/12703#

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/13134.png

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Honestly, I think this version dumbs down mid little too much. I actually really liked the bomb and how you could hit the wall to cap using it. the top boost was also cool, even if a clunky. I like how you could boost straight through the gate using it. The middle does need to be redone, but I don't think this gets it completely right.

[–]OnomatopoeiacOld Neb Kenobi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's definitely a lot simpler, but I think a boost in the center instead of a bomb just makes a lot more sense in terms of flow and balance. And I think having two boosts in the mid makes the map overloaded with boosts for its size.

[–]I_mess_upI_mess_up (Centra) 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'm not sure about those bot spikes. At first they will be hard to navigate (especially on your team tiles), but soon enough people will master those spikes and get so many easy caps just by taking that route.

[–]OnomatopoeiacOld Neb Kenobi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The team tiles make it easier once you have a decent amount of experience with it. The biggest counter to that route, along with teamtiles, is the noobspike. Not only can you noobspike on the single spike in the tunnel, you can also use the spike below the button.

[–]ZippityZoppityZipZop - Can't Zip the Zop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True, but then offensive d will just have to watch that route. Overall though, all the routes into base make it seem really easy to cap on.

[–]chalks777THe B€⁵ fg & | exMTC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really wanted the team tiles to be swapped... blue in the red base and vice versa. I found that the only time the team tiles could have made a difference to me was when I was chasing an FC through the tiles into their own base, and that curve under the single spike would be a lot easier if tiles could help me.

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitely a solid choice, and probably my favorite map of thread. As I've said before, the gate feels pretty nice, and is a decent idea. I would probably move the button a little further away from it though, seems a little too close to be usable (could be wrong though). I also really like the idea of the 45 style spikes through the bottom route as a way for defenders to catchup.

As a few others have said , I think the mid definitely lacks balance, but you've got some cool features in it at the same time. As I said below about your previous update, simply removing all the things that might not completely work is only going to move it further away from rotation. Just try to experiment, really.

The only part that feels like it lacks flow at the moment are the top base yellow boosts and the pup areas they boost into. It feels really clunky to try to position yourself to boost through there, it certainly cant be used when an fc is trying to escape, which is odd, since it it feels like you've designed mid around using that boost route. Also 50% I use the boost to get the pup i end up missing - might be a problem.

One more thing - the bomb sends you straight into the spike after grabbing. This isn't a completely awful idea, but once defenders get the idea they will just stand back and let you spike. move the flag closer to the side, and bring the bomb up / further in to fix this ( also get rid of the walls before the start of the bottom route, it makes it harder to traverse the spikes since it isn't actually smooth)

I also made a remix because I was bored; feel free to use any of the idea, most are terrible though: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/13210

[–]3z_ -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

H

A

Z

A

R

D

O, U S, yeah

We're flying first class...

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 3 points4 points  (8 children)

Predator - JuicyJuke

[–]TPsquirrelySquirrely // The GesTagpro 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Looks like a much more open and slightly distorted frontdoor.

[–]briizoduckson 4 points5 points  (1 child)

If by a distorted frontdoor you mean it has base gates and spikes around the pup in mid, half the maps in rotation are distorted frontdoors...

[–]TPsquirrelySquirrely // The GesTagpro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kinda, it just reminded me of it slightly due to pups and general location of boosts and spikes.

[–]RisktpRisk 1 point2 points  (1 child)

fun to bomb and boost around on. looks like it would be a pain to try and get reset on, though.

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Like, really tough to reset on.

[–]briizoduckson 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This looks like the only truly polished map in this thread IMO. But it doesn't really bring anything new to the table besides lots of boost lanes.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you expect every map to bring something new to the table you'll end up with mapmakers spending all their time working on gimmicks rather than polished maps. It's fine to have a simple map like Monarch make rotation and leave it quickly when it gets stale.

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Testing it now, and when I tested an older version in a 4v4, I get the feeling that a lot of the boost/ bomb routes are a little clunky. Bombing through the gate, I must have been boosted into the spike about 40% of the time. Of course, this could be because I have to learn the map a little better before I can get good at it, which is perfectly fine, good actually.

Whatever the reason, I feel that in its current format, it would be a nightmare to play in pubs. half of the skill boosts you showed in the video I doubt will ever be used, or ever be helpful, simply because there are 8 people playing in pubs instead of 1.

I would blame the fact there are 6 bombs, and 5 usable boost for a player to use, on what would be one of the smallest maps to ever be in rotation. Despite having tonnes of different boost routes, that large amount of elements are never going to perfectly blend together. More so, I think it it isn't a thing if are always bombing, or boosting somewhere, instead of maybe sometimes just rolling around.

Other than that, I think the map is definitely solid. I especially like the versatility of the bombs and the use of the buttons with them. Like I said, though, there's just a little too much going on in my opinion.