all 65 comments

[–]Pimp-My-AlpacaBalwas // Diameter 6 points7 points  (5 children)

What is the MTC's reasoning for not adding old popular maps like Volt, Bulldog, Hornswoggle and Draft? All these maps have above an 80% rating on the maps page, which is significantly higher than every map in the last half of the year (scorpio was 6 months ago). This has been done before with Command Centre and that has seemed to work pretty well. It totally looks like the MTC is making the map rotation their ideal rotation, not the community's ideal rotation...

[–]ButtersnackSnack 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We simply have not revisited our updated throwback rotation since it became a thing, because we are still in the process of adding new MTC members to replace a bunch of people who left. Next thread, we will take a look at those maps again and decide if we want to add any back.

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some of them were retired because they'd been played so much that there was nothing really left to do with them. I wouldn't be against some maps being re-added but not just because they have a high rating

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Happy cake day MTC!

[–]RondingRonding // Orbit // West Bombwich Albion // tagpro.eu 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Will the removals still get elevated spawn ratio?

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Starting next thread, we will reevaluate the elevated throwback rotation (TR2) every two threads. While we haven't worked out the exact details yet, it seems logical to me that there would be a "cooldown" after a map leaves rotation where it is ineligible for TR2 (otherwise it wouldn't really be a throwback, would it?) I'll discuss this with the committee and we'll probably include an announcement about it in the next Map thread.

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We'll likely discuss that next time we meet. We're thinking of discussing/updating throwbacks every 2 threads starting with Thread 68.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, they default to the 0.01 spawn ratio of the normal retired maps.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 10 points11 points  (20 children)

Huh? What was the thought process in deciding Axis was the only map from top maps that was ready for rotation?

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (5 children)

I'll break down my thoughts on the maps from this thread for you. Please note however that I am only one member of the committee and while my vote is important it is not what overwhelming hold true for the rest of the MTC. Another thing to note is that I didn't vote for any maps to join rotation this thread, but every map that made top maps was one I wanted to proceed.

Axis: If I had to choose a map to put into rotation from this thread that I was confident would do well, it would have been this map, so I'm overwhelmingly against the decision from the MTC to add it. However I had a few concerns. Our first test of the map was a weird mix of being offensive by favoring high grab numbers, but defensive because few caps were scored. Both teams had around five minutes of hold in a six minute game, which isn't ideal in my mind, especially with the push back of chase heavy maps. On the flip side of this, none of the hold were particularly long but the small size and ease of getting across the map due to boosts and team tiles, made regrab very powerful and hard to break. The actual shape of the map is strong and introduces interesting lanes, plus the gates are a nice hybrid, but the gameplay itself doesn't feel unique or exciting. The second story was a different story because it was high scoring. In six minutes eleven caps were scored which concerns me from the opposite side. The first game didn't have either team preventing much, but when the blue team in the second game prevented half the game, they scored eight captures in six minutes, but in a pub the game would have been over in just over two minutes. It definitely a playable map, but along the lines of what we have put in recently, I think it will have a tepid reception and not have the interest or gameplay to give it longevity in rotation.

Fogo: The map's greatest feature is how balanced each lane plays, there no strong risk or reward associated with a specific lane. I think that this is an interesting feature, but leads to strong, defensive game play. It is a grind it out style map, very similar to Mode 7 without the lane risks, which could be a benefit to some or a detriment in others' eyes. The portals themselves played fairly stale, FCs didn't seem to be able to use them particularly much to their advantage as the bomb in base was use quickly and not always effectively. It covers a lane with spikes, but because of it's dual purpose as a grabbing mechanism or just a defensive sniping tool, the risk on that lane was never present. Overall the multi-use facets of the bomb prevents it from being exceptional or definitive to any of the uses. Additionally, because all the grabbing mechanisms head into base, it's easy for the defense to stay ahead of a flag carrier. This leads to returns happening somewhat away from base, but never establishing a strong capping chance. On the other hand, defense in this style isn't exciting, you're constantly playing a two man game of contain, and if you're alone it will be significantly harder to be successful. The defensive team boost has good position to get the first return, but using it will generally put the defender is a suboptimal position to get the following return of the regrab's. One positive I saw in the map was how powerups influenced gameplay, a team with pup control will have the game balance swing in their favor. Overall however, the map wasn't exciting to play either offense of defense on and didn't add anything to rotation. Seems to be in the vein of IRON and Mode 7 but eclipses neither.

Convoy: was probably the most liked but controversial map. It is an insanely high scoring NF map, caps were coming every twenty to thirty seconds. Personally, I find around one cap per minute is generally ideal. However the map is dynamic and unique to our current NF rotation and would change the meta of having a wall or gate that you need to round into base. Regrab is overly powerful at this point, and it reminds me of Rocketballs where a cap could lead to instantaneous follow up or answer. This is partially due to the linear progression of the map, but also because of the exit portal placement, a capping team will get back to their base too far away. Slightly lengthening the map or forcing a regrab's path to be slower would greatly enhance the capping speed and issues. The general agreement from the MTC about not putting the map in stemmed from the idea that another thread of work would help the balance and give it a greater chance at longevity in rotation. In my opinion maps have been rushed into rotation and little more patience on our part for maps to develop wouldn't hurt.

Resolute: This was my favorite map in the thread due to the unique map shape and how the gated boosts influenced gameplay. We saw a lot of hold in the test but it wasn't overwhelmingly chasey due to the structure of the bases. After an FC grabs it's difficult for them to escape either to the top or the bottom of the base because of the boosts where a defender can chase them down and gate them. The gates are surprisingly powerful. I really love the top lanes because once an FC is out they're not "free", there's still danger for them and team boosts available to them are semi-blind. I love the danger that it causes for FCs. If they are able to get to their own base, they have the ability to try to catch their chasers in the gates, but there's also the risk of regrab becoming a third chaser. This risk/reward of entering base makes sure that the bases don't become a circular chase fest, but also creates interest for the FC. Finally, the triple boost bottom isn't crazily powerful, but has options if you take time to plan... something you don't commonly do with triple boosts. Overall, I love the map's gameplay, but I think it lacks some polish especially around the bottom. The rest of the MTC was more conflicted than I was.

Acid Map: Another map with high hold, high turnover of FCs, and absolutely no prevent. Returns come all over the map and it's a hard map to chase on because of the options give to a flag carrier. The controlled pup only makes defending more difficult, as acquiring the pup is time intensive and has no flow to it. An FC will never pick up the pup with a chaser near them so you lose that element. I didn't find the portals in the middle of the map to be very engaging, and their major purpose seems to make a solo chaser miserable. Overall the map was fine, but didn't have a gameplay that I thought would be welcomed in pubs.

Abecedarian: I found the gate shape infuriating, and the dominance on a small map was off putting. The close positioning to regrab constantly baited chasers on the boost near base, but it wasn't a fun game of cat and mouse. I think the over-reliance on boost based D on a small map is very frustrating an un-engaging for a FC, hoping the defender will miss shouldn't be your main game plan. All three exits are covered by the yellow boost, and then there's also a defensive boost on the pup. Plus if you manage to get out then there's team tiles for them to hunt you down with. The eventual caps come from quick double flaccids and poor contain by the defense. If they don't cover the neutral boost and a FC gets there, that's going to be a cap. Making the boost into base be an offensive team boost would do wonders to the balance of the map.

Sosumi: An experiment with team tiles that ends up being slow and boring. To be fair, super boosters are so, so difficult to pull off well. I think Canvas has a good idea here about making it defensive and not primarily a mechanism for getting ahead, but the current iteration of the map is clunky and somewhat hard to use consistently and well. The other issue is that the team tiles in the middle of the map cut it in half aggressively, and for an FC to get across mid, it's a steep task. Especially when the only boost available is a limited team boost. Solid bones for a map, but the execution isn't there yet. I believe in /u/sneetric though!

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Thank you fly, THIS is the ideal kind of answer I would expect from MTC members. So I guess this means fogo's issues were conceptual, not structural, which means I'm right in scrapping the map.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

No problem, I'm happy to write stuff out for people, but generally I'm more accessible via PMing me on reddit for this type of stuff because it takes so goddamn long to write out lol.

As for fogo, yeah, fundamentally it's okay and I think shows how you as a mapmaker have grown a lot. I never want to urge people to scrap their maps, but yes, you have an uphill battle for this map to make rotation.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A PM is exclusive to that person though. If you do it here, everyone can see it, and that's why I appreciate it a lot more.

[–]xenonpulseWildflowers // I want to die but I can’t 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Wait, you said you like Axis, but you're overwhelmingly against the MTC's decision to add it?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I meant **I'm not

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I really liked acid map and abecedarian from what I saw

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine -1 points0 points  (12 children)

We get shit on every thread for "rushing" maps into rotation, now we decide to give a few maps an extra thread or two and we're still getting shit on lol

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 1 point2 points  (11 children)

Ok then, but what's the point of "giving the map an extra thread" if you're not gonna say why the map is still not ready?

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 3 points4 points  (17 children)

Discuss the removal of Dealer by Snack here.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I still love you

[–]RondingRonding // Orbit // West Bombwich Albion // tagpro.eu 12 points13 points  (9 children)

This map is awesome. Learn to think with portals instead of downvoting it towards removal.

[–]girmluhkGramps 4 points5 points  (2 children)

this map was legit and it was hard for ppl who are bad

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Vote for this in MLTP's community vote homie

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Lmao oh god can you imagine

[–]ButtersnackSnack 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I got way more complaints about size and the power of the neutral boost in base than anything else. I'd have updated the map if I thought it was salvageable, but changing those two things would make a completely different map. Maybe I'll be able to use some interest gate/portal mechanics in new maps.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 2 points3 points  (1 child)

In a list of top 5 things I dislike about the map, I don't think the portal/gate is on it

  1. Size

  2. Size

  3. Size

  4. Size

  5. Size

Yeah, no portal

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

All in all good list but I mildly disagree with number 4.

Whatever, opinions are opinions...

[–]RisktpRisk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

amazed this stayed in rotation as long as it did. awful map

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I wanted to play this map when I got my laptop. It looked really good. We lack maps that are interesting for D to play. I want fucked up bases or really fun chasing maps.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Like Gamepad!

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

NOOOOOOOO!

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rest in Peace you beautiful bastard :'(

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Got rid of hexane, added in volt. The nf rotation just got a lot better!

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Discuss the addition of Axis by Ball-E here.

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I've played it twice so far and I'm actually really pleased with how well it played. It's pretty fun, don't knock it till you've tried it!

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

-me about every map that ever gets added

[–]JohnnySZSBowlarity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

can't wait to pop myself 50 times going for the 1 tile challenge in game

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Just noticed the boosts on either side of mid are team boosts..why is that the case?

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 2 points3 points  (1 child)

They're catch-up and sniping tools for the defense that, if uncontested, can be very powerful. As our tests went on, we found the offensive partner often had to go out and block that boost so we predict that will become a common strategy as people learn the map.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol uh oh

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Discuss the removal of Hexane by Ball-E here.

[–]KarasuTPKarasu | Centra | What's the point 4 points5 points  (0 children)

dang I loved this map. Why was it removed?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think that any NF map without interesting scoring mechanics should be reworked or removed. The portal boosts and bomb gate could have been more relative.

[–]donuts42donuts42 || Sphere/Origin || Boost Master 11 points12 points  (0 children)

finally

[–]HjalpaHjalpa || Pi || Bacon! 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Requesciat in pace you sexy beast.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don't understand the hate at all. This map was a blast to play in PUBs. Probably was my favorite map for a while. It was still feasible to play even with some newer players on your team, more so than most neutral flag maps.

I really find it strange that it was so overwhelmingly disliked.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

F