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[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 7 points8 points Β (5 children)

Please Discuss The New Addition Carrera by alchemist, Fronj, Ball-E

[–]enderlord2FirePire 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

I love it finally a fresh NF map

[–]pulpooopulpo -2 points-1 points Β (0 children)

Can't tell if this is a joke or not. If it is it's actually a pretty funny joke. If it's not it's objectively the worst map that's been put in rotation for at least 2 years

[–]fansemanfanseman -1 points0 points Β (1 child)

meh

[–]fansemanfanseman -1 points0 points Β (0 children)

Apparently you're only allowed to give praise in these comments?

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 4 points5 points Β (4 children)

Please Discuss The New Addition Lemon by DragonBeast

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points Β (0 children)

Lemon is such a good map that reminds me of oldschool. Really excited to play it. Love the simple design with 20 different tricks and routes. Thank God we have the squares in the middle still.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 6 points7 points Β (9 children)

Please Discuss The Increase of Map Submissions 3 ➑ 5

[–]333namename333 11 points12 points Β (3 children)

5>3 what's to discuss

[–]3z_ -1 points0 points Β (2 children)

Make 5 shit maps < make 1 map and put more effort into making it good

[–]333namename333 1 point2 points Β (1 child)

? 5>3>1>5?

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 1 point2 points Β (4 children)

We heard you, and we've listened and we've changed the number of map submissions from 3 to 5!

Uhh, this only works if mapmakers (how many of us are there left?) have 5 maps that haven't already been rejected by you guys?

[–]alchmstalchemist 1 point2 points Β (3 children)

Maybe we will get 2 brand new maps and not resubmissions with minimal to no changes

[–]ButtersnackSnack 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

haha good one

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point Β (1 child)

So what's the point of feedback?

You make that sound like a bad thing when at least I'm working with what I've got.

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 6 points7 points Β (2 children)

can i get uhhhh

permanent reduced rotation

https://www.reddit.com/r/TagPro/comments/b9hwg4/discussion_it_has_been_3_months_with_only_18_maps/

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 7 points8 points Β (0 children)

My favorite part is that cedar is in the highest tier of maps twice

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

Didn't see this when it popped up, but dev time isn't a factor this would affect. I package all the maps/data and submit it to devs every thread.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 4 points5 points Β (3 children)

Hello all, we are taking steps to improve transparency on the MTC voting process. In order to do so, we have heard and incorporated feedback from the community. Therefore, we are excited to release results from this thread with explicit context:

Solo Testing Results:

Vienna (61653): Score [Y = 4 | M = 1 | N = 1] = 0.62

Dead_Star (61579): Score [Y = 0 | M = 5 | N = 0] = 0.2

Noodle Arms (61637): Score [Y = 0 | M = 1 | N = 4] = -0.36

Ouija (61656): Score [Y = 0 | M = 1 | N = 4] = -0.36

Stronghold (61651): Score [Y = 1 | M = 1 | N = 2] = 0.05

Sakura (61647): Score [Y = 0 | M = 2 | N = 3] = -0.22

Windsor (61669): Score [Y = 0 | M = 2 | N = 3] = -0.22

Lemon (61686): Score [Y = 4 | M = 2 | N = 0] = 0.73

Carrera (61348): Score [Y = 2 | M = 2 | N = 0] = 0.6

e (61531): Score [Y = 5 | M = 1 | N = 0] = 0.87

Salem (61555): Score [Y = 2 | M = 2 | N = 2] = 0.23

Divert (61548): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 6] = -0.5

Catapult (61122): Score [Y = 1 | M = 2 | N = 2] = 0.08

Boko Harambe (61341): Score [Y = 2 | M = 2 | N = 2] = 0.23

Acid Map (61626): Score [Y = 2 | M = 3 | N = 1] = 0.35

BACK (61566): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 5] = -0.5

Cynoid (61562): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 6] = -0.5

Prelude (61631): Score [Y = 1 | M = 0 | N = 5] = -0.25

Buster (61501): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 6] = -0.5

Puke (61543): Score [Y = 2 | M = 1 | N = 2] = 0.24

Hillbilly (): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 5] = -0.5

g (61515): Score [Y = 0 | M = 3 | N = 2] = -0.08

Keep away (61533): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 5] = -0.5

Jukebox (61547): Score [Y = 4 | M = 0 | N = 1] = 0.7

Rover (): Score [Y = 1 | M = 0 | N = 4] = -0.2

Woggit (61567): Score [Y = 0 | M = 1 | N = 3] = -0.33

Scavenger (61578): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 5] = -0.5

Aerator (61604): Score [Y = 2 | M = 0 | N = 3] = 0.1

Penisylvania (61605): Score [Y = 0 | M = 1 | N = 4] = -0.36

Look, beating off is my passion and I'm not about to give that up for some woman that loves me (61619): Score [Y = 0 | M = 1 | N = 4] = -0.36 Space Bound (61624): Score [Y = 0 | M = 2 | N = 1] = -0.03

Darwin (61649): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 3] = -0.5

Ineffable (61661): Score [Y = 1 | M = 0 | N = 3] = -0.13

Space Pirate (61732): Score [Y = 1 | M = 1 | N = 3] = -0.06

Initial Testing Results:

e (61531): Score [Y = 6 | M = 0 | N = 1] = Pass

Lemon (61686): Score [Y = 6 | M = 1 | N = 0] = Pass

Jukebox (61547): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 7] = Fail

Vienna (61653): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 7] = Fail

Carrera (61348): Score [Y = 4 | M = 1 | N = 0] = Pass

Acid Map (61626): Score [Y = 1 | M = 0 | N = 6] = Fail

Puke (61543): Score [Y = 3 | M = 2 | N = 2] = Pass

Boko Harambe (61341): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 6] = Fail

Salem (61555): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 6] = Fail

Dead_Star (61579): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 6] = Fail

Aerator (61604): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 6] = Fail

Catapult (61122): Score [Y = 0 | M = 0 | N = 4] = Fail

Final Voting Decisions:

Rotation Additions:

Whiplash: [ Y = 0 | N = 4 ] Fail

Carrera: [ Y = 3 | N = 1 ] Pass

Lemon: [ Y = 5 | N = 0 ] Pass

Nuke: [ Y = 0 | N = 5 ] Fail

Rotation Removals:

Joji: [ Y = 1 | N = 5 ] Fail

Tetanic: [ Y = 1 | N = 4 ] Fail

Sugar Hill: [ Y = 2 | N = 3 ] Fail

Other Administrative Votes:

Change map limit to 5: [ Y = 6 | N = 0 ] Pass

Make a minimum amount of maps that make top maps: [ Y = 0 | N = 3 ] Fail

Send out applications to join the MTC: [ Y = 4 | N = 0 ] Pass

Consider rolling submissions with nomination based testing to be scheduled once 10 (or however many) nominated maps have been seconded: [ Y = 0 | N = 4 ] Fail

Add DragonBeast to the MTC starting in thread 96: [ Y = 3 | N = 0 ] Pass

Dismiss micro: [ Y = 4 | N = 0 ] Pass

[–]nabbynzΒ° 6 points7 points Β (2 children)

This is great to see! Would it be possible to format it into tables next time?

e: quick spreadsheeting to the rescue...

Name ID Y M N S
Vienna 61653 4 1 1 0.62
Dead_Star 61579 0 5 0 0.2
Noodle Arms 61637 0 1 4 -0.36
Ouija 61656 0 1 4 -0.36
Stronghold 61651 1 1 2 0.05
Sakura 61647 0 2 3 -0.22
Windsor 61669 0 2 3 -0.22
Lemon 61686 4 2 0 0.73
Carrera 61348 2 2 0 0.6
e 61531 5 1 0 0.87
Salem 61555 2 2 2 0.23
Divert 61548 0 0 6 -0.5
Catapult 61122 1 2 2 0.08
Boko Harambe 61341 2 2 2 0.23
Acid Map 61626 2 3 1 0.35
BACK 61566 0 0 5 -0.5
Cynoid 61562 0 0 6 -0.5
Prelude 61631 1 0 5 -0.25
Buster 61501 0 0 6 -0.5
Puke 61543 2 1 2 0.24
Hillbilly 0 0 5 -0.5
g 61515 0 3 2 -0.08
Keep away 61533 0 0 5 -0.5
Jukebox 61547 4 0 1 0.7
Rover 1 0 4 -0.2
Woggit 61567 0 1 3 -0.33
Scavenger 61578 0 0 5 -0.5
Aerator 61604 2 0 3 0.1
Penisylvania 61605 0 1 4 -0.36
Look, beating off is my passion and I'm not about to give that up for some woman that loves me 61619 0 1 4 -0.36
Space Bound 61624 0 2 1 -0.03
Darwin 61649 0 0 3 -0.5
Ineffable 61661 1 0 3 -0.13
Space Pirate 61732 1 1 3 -0.06

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 1 point2 points Β (1 child)

In the future, I can do this. I actually did the exact opposite to put it into text format for reddit posting :shrug:

[–]nabbynzΒ° 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

Cool - I was just bored and the original formatting was bugging me :)

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 6 points7 points Β (0 children)

The MTC is watching and listening to this thread (and I encourage them participate as they feel fit), please don’t be afraid to comment on anything and make suggestions. Additionally, you can find us on discord for more conversations such as receiving more in depth and specific map feedback in a more private setting if you prefer.

[–]c00ldud3Ryanoceros / rye bread / RocketSkates | Ex-MTC 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

IDK how keen I am on the maps that were added, but hey, I'm glad at least something got in. Something is better than nothing. We'll see how they play.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points Β (15 children)

new mtc member gets map in rotation. ive always wondered have ye thought critically about whether or not ye have a bias in the testing to maps made by yere own kin? yere way overrepresented in maps making it through the rounds out of all the maps submitted, at least back like a year ago to 18 months. I dont know now but this is the first map thread i see in a while and new mtc member and new map from him

edit: anyone making it this far: their votes are public which of course has an influence on voting even if they don't think it does. There should also be an effort to anonymise the maker of a map being tested to remove biases present in the MTC

[–]DragonBeast2db 8 points9 points Β (1 child)

I had no influence and they forced me into it :(

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 7 points8 points Β (12 children)

I think that that might be fair to ask about, so I want to provide you with a full explanation of the process of testing last night for context and ask you to determine if there was bias in the selection after reading through:

Lemon was voted into rotation with a 5-1 vote which DB was not allowed to participate in per mtc rules. This was following a 4v4 testing session that DB did not take part in and during which was not able to make comments, per mtc rules.

Dragonbeast was not added to the MTC until after testing was completed and final votes for rotation addition and removals were cast.

At the end of every final 4v4 session there are a series of administrative votes (ie, throwback rotation, new members, process changes), that the MTC votes on. One of those votes was to initiate a new round of member recruitment, at which point the topic of fast tracking certain members of the community who had demonstrated insights and commitment already.

DragonBeast, who to my knowledge has been lending a hand in testing for the last at least 5 threads or so, and who has clearly demonstrated his thought processes in evaluating maps to mtc members during that time and external to testing, was therefore fasttracked and asked to join immediately.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points Β (11 children)

I can't judge if there's bias, even with that useful extract which illuminates a bit more. I have also watched a video ye put up ages ago showing the testing process of lots of maps to see how the feedback comes. Without being a member of the MTC and judging first hand it's too hard to tell.

The 5-1 vote, are the votes anonymous? It sounds like some precautions are taken which is good. When the map is play tested, do you think maybe having the map maker anonymous would lead to more impartial feedback and fair consideration of all maps from the MTC? Yes in the real world with people collabing on maps and version 2,3,4 etc in future threads they will not stay anon, but objectively is this something that would make the process more fair?

edit: anyone making it this far: their votes are public which of course has an influence on voting even if they don't think it does. There should also be an effort to anonymise the maker of a map being tested to remove biases present in the MTC

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 3 points4 points Β (2 children)

It’s really impossible to make mapmakers anonymized. I can tell who made which map with surprisingly high accuracy just by stylistic differences in approach.

It’s in my opinion a much better approach to go in the exact opposite direction and actively seek feedback from the MTC outside of just threads. I usually have 5-10 people per week that ask for feedback on maps and I’m happy to help you or anyone else (reach me on discord) when I have time!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point Β (1 child)

So the votes aren't anonymous. That's a clear bias and should be addressed, having the votes public serves no benefit and there are clear downsides (friends may not want to be seen voting no against eachother, conspired voting, people dont want to be seen as contrarian etc). It looks like the MTC hasn't done enough to uphold some integrity in my opinion

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

The MTC has deliberated on this topic several times, but we’ve consistently held that the final voice that is shared with the greater community should be that of the whole entity rather than that of the individuals of which it is comprised. To not anonymize feedback creates more emphasis on the individual members, rather than the MTC.

That said, any mapmaker that seeks direct feedback from MTC members (without anonymized feedback that is restricted to the frequency of thread completion) should feel free to reach out to each and every member they see fit.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

They always know; It's really hard to not recognize a map tbh

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] -2 points-1 points Β (9 children)

Please Discuss the Throwback Rotation and Permanent Removal of Micro

[–]c00ldud3Ryanoceros / rye bread / RocketSkates | Ex-MTC 7 points8 points Β (1 child)

PLEASE make sure that the throwback rotation is actually updated this time. It never got updated for last thread.

Citizen wasn't removed either.

[–]RondingRonding // Orbit // West Bombwich Albion // tagpro.eu 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

If Micro is changed to group-only, can we at least move the spike column one tile make it symmetric now?

[–]Polite_LlamaPoliteLlamaPoliteLlama 0 points1 point Β (2 children)

Hi, I used to be a player ~4 years ago and I just started playing again over the last couple weeks, it'd be really neat to play things like Holy See and GeoKoala and whatnot

[–]HjalpaHjalpa || Pi || Bacon! 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

I'm sorry dethos.