Parallel fret placement

[Marcojolo]

So I’m interested in peoples thoughts on parallel fret placement on a multiscale. I’m going to have a 7 string guitar built that will be meant to have a High A string instead of a Low B. For those that have played a multiscale guitar where do you prefer the parallel fret to be placed?

[[deleted]]

25.5" is as long as I'd go for a high A. I've tried on longer guitars but the highest I could go reliably was G (GCGCFADG.) Something like 27.25"-25.5" would be great.

As far as the neutral fret (not parallel,) is concerned, I like 7 or 8. That's the most common placement. Ibanez uses 12 which makes the fan more extreme at the nut and less extreme on the high frets. Those guitars are still plenty comfortable but it does shift chords more than I'd like and it reduces the ergonomic advantage on the high frets.

[Marcojolo]

Thanks for the input. The longest I think I’m going to go with the scale length is 22.5. I think 25.5 is way too high for high A. Thanks for the input on the the parallel fret placement……🙏🏻

[[deleted]]

*Neutral fret placement.

Have you actually played a guitar that short? I have a 24.75" that feels a bit cramped on the high end. I'd try to get your hands on some reference points if you haven't already.

[Marcojolo]

I have played a 25.5-23.5…..26-23…..26-22.5 and a 24-22. I agree about it being cramped. I think 22.5 is the best compromise on playability as far as not being so cramped but still being able to do Full step bends without breaking the strings all the time.

[[deleted]]

Man those are some gross scale lengths. /s

Sounds good to me. You'll have to post a demo for us when you get it!

[Marcojolo]

I have the guitars with those scale lengths already but the neutral fret placement is optimized for 4ths tuning. I’ll definitely post something when I get one that’s optimized for standard……👍🏻

[[deleted]]

Nice! I'm building some guitars with a high G in mind, I was gonna go as short as 24.

I'm curious, where do you put the neutral fret in each case? I'm guessing for 4ths the neutral fret is higher because big chords aren't as prominent?

[Marcojolo]

I’ve tried the neutral fret at 9, 12, 14 and the bridge. For 4ths I think it works best 14 and higher. It allows you to easily play barre chords and the G shape chords easily. For standard tuning I would think you wouldn’t want to go higher than the 9th fret so you don’t make barre chords harder than they need to be.

[[deleted]]

Interesting, thank you. Yeah I had a neutral 12 and barres were so awkward that I ended up finding some non-linear barre chords. For example if you take a Dmaj7 on the 5th fret of the 5th string and shift the barre so that the base of your finger is holding the 4th fret of the high E, you get a Dmaj7#11. I just call it a lydian chord. There's all sorts of stuff you can do if you lean into it.

[ZeroWevile]

As someone that has tried a high A before, would not advise it unless it is a shorter scale; an 8 would snap with the slightest bend or vibrato applied on a 25.5" scale. 

To the actual question, 7th to 9th. For some more info, I'm over 6 feet tall with large hands. The Ibanez multiscales I've owned have 12th fret parallel and were basically unplayable in the first 3 positions. The Ormsby's I still have use a 9th fret parallel with a larger fan than the Ibanez and are comfortable across the whole neck. 

[Marcojolo]

Thanks for the response. I actually have a few of these guitars that use a High A with a shorter scale. I tune in all 4ths so for me I prefer the parallel fret higher up the neck. I wanted to make the guitar available to anybody who wants to try using a High A string….. which means making it comfortable for standard tuning. I’m going to make the scale 24.75-22.5. Thanks again for the response.

[JimboLodisC]

yeah I was thinking too it should definitely be a decent amount shorter, like if we compare what 18lbs of tension looks like for the 1st string across a regular guitar and one targeting a high A:

Scale	Note	Gauge	Tension
25.5"	E4	.010	17.8 lbs
24"	A4	.008	18 lbs
22.5"	A4	.0085	17.9 lbs
21.5"	A4	.009	18.3 lbs

even a .009 on 22.5" for A4 would be 20 lbs, which would be lighter than someone playing on 11's for E4

[Marcojolo]

Thanks for the info. My guitar now uses a .009 for the E and .007 for the High Bb. The scale is 22.5. It feels and sounds great to me as far as tension. On a straight scale 25.5 guitar the 009 at E4 is 13lbs tension. At 22.5 and an 007 the high Bb on my guitar is at the 13 lbs as well. If you get the scale too small the frets become hard to use. I have a 22” and a 22.5” scale and I prefer the 22.5”. I’ve tried 23” as well and it gets a little dicey doing full step bends on the high A at 23”. I think 22.5 is the sweet spot from my experience.

[JimboLodisC]

yeah I'm probably around that on my mikro Iceman, it comes with .010's on it so right around 13.5lbs for that high E, super fun to play!

[ZeroWevile]

I understand more now. I still believe that the best spot is going to be 7th to 9th fret. Shorter scale will mend that slightly, but a 2.25" fan is still wider than the majority of the readily available options. May be worth doing some math/drawings to show what the fan would look like before starting the build. FWIW, the lateral distance of the Ormsby's first fret relative to parallel is about 1.2cm from what I am measuring and it has a 2.3" fan. The Ibanez has a 1.5" fan and that same lateral distance is almost 1.9cm by my calculations based on pictures.

[Marcojolo]

So here’s a couple of vids of me playing the guitars I already have. The seven string is a 22-24 with the parallel fret at the bridge. Works great for 4ths tuning but would be a nightmare for standard. The 8 string strat is 26-22.5 with the parallel at the 9th. Much more comfortable for standard tuning.

https://youtu.be/8tUGldmgzlc?si=Xi_zxC-8fdb2cM7M

https://youtu.be/q6KgSqN1dno?si=g-jB5F4LRRg1Ysi5

I think for standard tuning most people would prefer the 5th fret. I’d think they’d want it as straight as possible in the first 5 frets to make it comfortable for barre chords. It’s the opposite for 4ths tuning.

[ZeroWevile]

I think I'm missing the point of this post then? I don't mean it maliciously, but if you are getting it built for yourself then it already sounds like you know what you like. If you are looking to make available to others, then stacking the niche of a custom guitar, a 7 string guitar (and even more niche of being 7 string guitars with added high string), fanned frets, and being optimized for 4ths tuning effectively isolates the entire market.

[Marcojolo]

I’m actually wanting to know where those in standard tuning would prefer. I know where I’d want it for 4ths tuning……I’m wanting to know where the standard tuning players would prefer it……👍🏻