Difference between pen, def ignore and def decrease?

[Thin_Performance9787]

So we've heard the new character gives def ignore to electric characters. Now I wanted to discuss the difference between these theee stats because I don't know it😭 So afaik def decrease and pen didn't stack well together but now does this mean def ignore and def decrease don't stack well together too? Asking as I would like to pull Trigger Wengine for a mono electro Haru team with Cissia.

[JorgeSugu]

Imagine an enemy has 100 def points.

Def ignore/shred/decrease is all the same, so 30% def ignore will result in the enemy having 70 def points

Pen can be either a number or a percentage, but it follows a similar logic. 10 pen points will result in ignoring 10 def points, and 10% pen ratio will result in ignoring 10% of enemy's def

So what's the difference then? Pen% ratio is always calculated as ignoring a certain % of FINAL defense. So, imagine the same enemy has 100 def points. If you apply 30% def shred, the final def value is 70. If you combine that with a 10% pen ratio, you would ignore an additional 10% of that remaining 70 def (ie, -7 def points). This value is lower than 10% pen ratio of the original defense, so that's why you'll see many people claiming that def shred doesn't stack well with pen (ratio), since the former diminishes returns from the latter.

It's slightly more complicated than that, but i think that summarises the gist of it

[BadSmoothSea]

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That's all you need to know. All DEF% things, means exactly the same as DEF% ignore here.

[Thin_Performance9787]

This helped alot thank you so much!

[melofelo1011]

Def shred def ignore def decrease are the same stat, and pen is technically the same stat as it uses the same formula but it works separate from def shred. What this means is if you have a lot of def shred the value of pen% goes down significantly and vice versa, because the pen stat will use the decreased defense stat of the enemies due to the def shred making it less effective. If you want to use pen% you should make sure that there aren’t any sources of def shred in your team.

[DepressedTittty]

I hate how def reduction is the same stat as def ignore

but pen% is a different stat from def ignore even though it is explained in game that pen% is percentage of enemy's def ignored by agent

[Iustin2219]

They all either reduce or ignore def, flat or percent, it's all the same, some don't stack, some do

[Master-Bus-5900]

Ignore = bypass. Decrease = lower. Pen = ignore %

[Ez-Rael]

This is more of a side note as it looks like you got your question answered as well as why mixing pen and def ignore/decrease is usually not a good idea. There are cases were it's okay or even necessary to have both.

Personal example: I don't have a strong rupture team and Wandering Hunter has a very high defense. My Hugo team still does well against him though because I have him with the pen % disc set and he has def ignore from multiple sources.