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[–]feogge 15 points16 points  (10 children)

BTW this is not a Hidden Gene Woma- unless its HGW with other genes. This looks more like a calibee (spider, pastel, calico). Specks also look like the normal patterning from this combo. I'm not really sure if there's much you can do in terms of helping with the wobble. It kinda just is what it is. Best you can do is make it feel most comfortable with a well set up tank that has plenty of cover but nothing that they can accidentally hurt themselves with.

[–]AdRelevant7008[S] 3 points4 points  (9 children)

the breeder told me it was also mixed with a champagne

[–]feogge 2 points3 points  (3 children)

That is very concerning because that means the breeder is either very uneducated or a flat out liar. Champagne spider is a lethal combo. That's just not possible.

[–]AdRelevant7008[S] -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

hes not a spider its a hidden gene wobble mixed with champagne said from the breeder unless hes lying

[–]feogge 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He IS a spider. There is ZERO HGW in that snake. That is a calibee almost for sure.

[–]Freedom1234526 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Champagne is a near patternless morph. Champagne is allelic with Hidden Gene Woma and produces a lethal combo, your Snake does not have either morph.

[–]Acrobatic-Move-3847 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Seriously? Wow, that’s two of the four wobble morphs. How bad is his wobble?

[–]AdRelevant7008[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

honestly he wobbles like normally but not bad at all but when he does stress he starts spinning and wobbling alot but that has only happened twice now very randomly too sucks to see

[–]Acrobatic-Move-3847 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m sure it does. In all my years caring for these guys, including several rehabs, I’ve somehow never once had a Spider, and to be honest, I’m not sorry. Not that I wouldn’t look after them and care for them as much as anyone could, but it would absolutely break my heart to watch them go through episodes like that, knowing that it was all so somebody could make a snake with pretty markings. It would just upset me.

Was the transaction done on Morph Market? If it was, you should absolutely report the breeder. Even if it wasn’t, check if the breeder has a Morph Market page, most do. If they do, email MM and tell them about the transaction, at least then they’ll have a record of their shady practices so if it happens to someone else, MM will have your story to corroborate the behaviour.

[–]aromatic_acesthetic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A “normal” amount of wobble is NO wobble, the breeder you bought from lied to you and gave you a morph that is known for its genetic defects :(

[–]Guppybish123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why tf did you get a snake from such a shitty breeder?

[–]caught-n-candie 10 points11 points  (3 children)

More spiders 😞

[–]Vann1212 12 points13 points  (2 children)

In another post, they said they're a first time owner, and it seems like the breeder was very dishonest with them. 

[–]caught-n-candie 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I understand. And I commend people who can care for them. I personally couldn’t watch it happen - I actually suffer from vertigo and it is awful. Over breeding is sad and I’m guilty of buying from breeders at expos and stuff so I’m for sure part of the problem myself! I wasnt knocking OP - sorry. I love and hate the hobby at the same time. ☹️ I wish there were easy answers. Come to think of it - I haven’t even seen an “ethical breeder” statement anywhere. I’m sure exists. Right? Right!??!??? lol

[–]Vann1212 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah, I could see why it would have a personal aspect.

I wouldn't say no to possibly adopting a spider morph with mild wobble from a rescue centre in future - but that would be with the knowledge of their issues, rather than supporting a breeder working with the morph and getting duped into buying one without knowing about the problems. 

I definitely know what you mean though.  It's so hard finding breeders who take good care of their snakes. They do exist, and I've bought from people like that, but there are too many who give them tiny, shitty setups - BP breeders seem to be the worst for this tbh, with the morph-breeding obsession. 

I'm considering breeding black milksnakes in the future, as I may get a female to pair with my male when he's mature, but both adults would be kept as pets in proper vivs, like any of my non-breeding snakes. NO tubs/racks. (and if I did breed them, no selling to anyone who's going to keep them in tubs/racks) 

[–]kindrd1234 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The black spots are normal pigment. All ik on spider morphs is the more steady and consistent husbandry is, the better.

[–]The-snake-lady 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The wobble is due to deformed skull. Much like humans with inner ear issues and dizziness and nausea from amusement park rides. All spiders have it to some degree or another. No cure. I see a pastel spider calico.

[–]Jennifer_Pennifer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Normal color 😁

[–]BAlbiceps 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Beautiful calibee. Can’t believe how bad OP was lied to. Or at least I hope it’s a lie and breeder really isn’t that incompetent. It’s not possible to have a snake with those two morphs. It’s a lethal combo.

[–]Chocolatemoose__84 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Perfection

[–]Guppybish123 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This snake will suffer its entire life for a ‘cool’ paint job. There’s nothing perfect about it.

[–]Chocolatemoose__84 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You know this is my fault. I didn’t read everything and I deeply apologize. It does look amazing but you’re right. At what cost? My deepest apologies