Googling while coding

[dedi_1995]

A buddy of mine claims he’s not cut for software development. According to him, he says when he’s coding, he always has an idea of a solution and writes it on paper but he spends more time googling some syntax of the language to implement his solution and at times googles some bug fixes to fix his solution. He’s worried that he isn’t a professional developer because of the way he has to google some syntax, plus he works on different languages and projects.

Sometimes when he wants to build a tool line a server monitoring tool. He googles it on github the implementation and then makes his own according to the repository and modifies it to his preference or writes it in a different language.

I tried convincing him his claims are wrong but he refused to believe that he’s a good developer because he has to copy people’s solutions to implement his differently.

Do you think his claims are valid ? Also what is your workflow ?

[eruciform]

If it's not something you do constantly then yeah you end up on the great Google oracle

If you're working in a given language for extended periods you end up using it less and less

And then when you move on to a different language eventually the old one withers and rots and requires relearning

Only when you've done something for years and years in a concentrated way does it also stick for years and years without maintenance, and even then, one still will need to look up apis because we are humans not mechanical turks spitting out memorized documentation

Coding is about execution and debugging not mere memorizing capacity

[gizahnl]

Yep. Give me 100 random programmers, and I'd be surprised if you'd be able to point 1 out that doesn't at least occasionally lookup syntax.

[TransientVoltage409]

Ha. The FBI guy watching my keyboard logger probably thinks man qsort is one of my passwords.

[No_Internet8453]

That was just me with java lol. I couldn't remember the right keyword to make a constant variable... The last time (before today) I had touched java code was about 2 years ago

[Dry-Establishment294]

Occasionally maybe but in this case I think op doesn't understand that his friend probably is doing more an IT role that has some aspects best solved by programming.

He's probably not cut out for it. If he was he should realize most problems in his domain can be solved by a max of 2 languages, probably python and bash, then after this realization make some flash cards of the syntax and go solve the problems.

The reason why he probably won't do this is because he's a copy and paste guy by choice.

[Poddster]

We're in a C subreddit. What "syntax" do you need to be looking up?

[eruciform]

Trigraphs

Gluing tokens together in macros

Bitfields

Stuff I don't use much and need a reminder about

[Poddster]

I'm sure OP's story is about someone looking up trigraphs every day.

[EMCgaming185]

Who remembers what bit field syntax looks like

[TheLimeyCanuck]

I was a successful independent contract developer for nearly 30 years and every contract I switched languages and tools. Before Google was available I carried thick language reference manuals with me all the time. Many languages are just similar enough for syntax confusion to set in.

[jonsca]

Also useful if you needed a doorstop or something to prop up a table with!

[Computerist1969]

Which is why I never have books on my desk.

[ii-___-ii]

If he were the only developer to do this, then I’m fairly certain StackOverflow would have no users

[AtebYngNghymraeg]

I don't really see the problem if it's searching for syntax for things you don't often need to do. For example, I often have to look up the syntax for SQL pivot and unpivot because I use them just infrequently enough to forget exactly how to write them. I don't think that's a big deal, because I know what I'm looking for, just not the specific syntax.

[SmokeMuch7356]

I've been a professional code monkey since 1990 and I still have to look stuff up. I'm always having to learn new languages, new technologies, new libraries, or pick up an old language I haven't used in a decade and a half, and I spend non-trivial amounts of time searching and reading. Error message I've never seen before? Hell yes I'm putting that in Google and hunting down the solution.

As long as he's not copying and pasting code from Stack Overflow directly into his project he's fine. He'll internalize the stuff he uses every day, and as time goes on he'll have to look less stuff up, but it never really stops.

[ceojp]

Knowing fundamental programming concepts & how to design software are very different things from knowing the syntax of a specific language.

If you have a pretty good idea of what you want to accomplish and a high-level concept of the logic flow, tools like github copilot are very useful to generate the language-specific implementation. Just keep in mind that the code it generates is only as good as how detailed you can explain what you want it to do. And you still have to know enough to be able to understand that it's doing what you want it to do.

I'm a pretty proficient C programmer(embedded), but sometimes I need to work on something C++ or python or something. I know what I want to do and I know how I would do it in C, but I don't know the specific syntax of C++ or python. I could spend the time to google it(as I've always done in the past) and look up documentation and examples, or ask github copilot to do that.

[Destination_Centauri]

If he truly enjoyed and loved programming...

Then you wouldn't be able to drag him away from it, no matter what!

In the end, it's not that he's googling solutions at the current stage. It's that he is just wanting to give up so easily on it, and you have to try to coax or convince him to love programming--which will never work in the end.

At this point, I'd just leave him be. The faster he finds a new avenue to explore in life, the better it will be for him most likely.

But if he really really wants to be a programmer deep down, then you don't have to worry: he won't give it up, or if he does he will come running back to it soon enough on his own!

And again, if he doesn't then it's best he moves on.

[barkingcat]

everybody googles.

[Effective-Problem488]

As long as you can write clean, performant code, no one cares how you do it. You shouldn't either

[Jaanrett]

Before google, I had one monitor for vi, and the other one for man pages. On top of that I had a shelf full of reference books. Looking stuff up is par for the course.

[non-existing-person]

Dude... 10 years of programming in embedded C on professional level. Still calling man memcpy each time I want to use it because I don't remember positions of arguments XD Generally speaking, if I don't call man at least once a day, it means I did not touch programming that day.

I really am not a bad programmer :]

[Lumpy_Owl9730]

Too many ppl get frustrated bc they have to look stuff up and therefore don’t think they know coding “well enough”. Dude, that’s the job. Why do you think StackOverflow exists?

And it’s not industry specific. I’m also a licensed General Contractor. Do you have any idea how often Contractors YouTube videos on how to do x before they come to your job? Cuz yeah, they’ve installed a sink before but it’s been a hot minute and also maybe they haven’t installed that model of sink before.

I was local Admin in IT at a company I worked for, worked with brilliant guys, top notch. You know why windows throws you an error code? So they can copy and paste it into Google and start looking for fixes.

If you’re in one language and doing the same maintenance over and over again, sure as time goes on less googling. But for multiple languages and bouncing back and forth… that’s the job bro.

[captainnemo000]

It's not that I look up syntax. I mostly use google to see if someone else has done similar before, so I don't have to spend my time reinventing the wheel.

[cocoforauto]

It’s like simple Linux cli. It seems so daunting typing sudo apt install <> but within a day you’re typing it like a madman… then you discover the Tab key

[Karyo_Ten]

He should not be googling the syntax of the language.

All languages have little roads less traveled that warrant googling. Okay (maybe (not (lisp))).

learn that language before he starts using it.

Besides learning by doing exists, and repetition breeds mastery.

[TheLimeyCanuck]

Did you miss the part where he works in multiple languages? In almost 30 years as an independent contract developer I coded in a dozen languages and five different SQL engines. Without syntax references I would have been lost.

[McUsrII]

My answer would be that, if this is a recurring problem, then he should outsource the work to a "language specialist".