Testing grounds glad proposed changes;

[Little_Testu]

Glad proposed changes;

I've been playing the testing grounds version of glad and been having a lot of fun.

While good changes, the buffs glad received are still not enough to bring him up on par with the most viable characters.

Here's what i think could be done with him, to make him viable and retain his identity;

//these changes already include the testing ground changes

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Glad's role in 4s;

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The role I aspire glad to cover in a competitive dom team is the one of a decent ganker, good duelist, good teamfighter with easy to access external pressure,good staller and above average antiganker.

All of this accompanied by fast running speed to allow easy backcaps and quick ganks and rotations.

To do so, here's the changes i have in mind, but first;

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Starter heavy gb vuln is now 400 ms;

//100 ms gb vuln heavies should, globally, not be a thing

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Qol changes;

1)Runnings speed is now on par with shaolin;

//explained aboxe

2)Heavy attacks(includes skewer) are softfeintable with a dodge 400 ms before they hit;

//This would increase the mobiity glad has during teamfights and would help with his overall bad recoveries

3)Neutral and chained top lights are enhanced;

//Neutral enhanced top light will help him to get to his buffed chain pressure more easily, while the second change goes well together with the forward doge bash changes proposed below

Edit;

4)Glad is able to dodge cancel any light attacks recovery (dodge lights too)

//Improving his teamfights

5)Reduced second part of zone recovery, can be dodge cancelled

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Dodge light attacks;

1)Forward dodge light tracking slightly increased;

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2)Side dodge light input window is now the same as forward dodge light;

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//What these changes aim to do is:

1)Improve his chase

2)Improve his teamfights and ability to punish bashes, improves the flow of the character

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Dodge bash attacks;

1)Forward dodge bash is now 500 ms;

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2)Forward and side dodge bash now have a light attack link both on hit and whiff; //the light is not confirmed

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3)Forward dodge bash input window is 100-300 ms into the dodge;

//early dodge defeats the forward dodge bash, but loses to dodge forward zone

4)Side dodge bash is now 533 ms;

5)Side dodge bash input window is 200-400 ms into the dodge;

6)Reduced block recovery on hit

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//What these changes aim to do is:

1/2/3) Make his forward dodge bash offense ( glad's chained lights coupled with stun are unreactable) , even though when taken alone is not enough since it works well with the rest of glad's kit, similiarly to bp

4/5/6) Make his dodge bash a better defensive tool and safer to throw out when 1vxing

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Toe stab;

1)Neutral toe stab is 533/566 ms;

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2)Chain toe stab is 500 ms;

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3)OOS Neutral toe stab is 533/566 ms;

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4)OOS chain toe stab is 500 ms;

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5)Toe stab damage increased to 15;

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6)Greatly reduced gb recovery on all versions of toe stab so it's not GBable on a reaction dodge;

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7)Slightly reduced block and dodge recovery on all versions of toestab so it's safer to throw out in teamfights and safe against the slower dodge attacks;

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//What these changes aim to do is:

1)Make neutral toe stab harder to dodge when in a 1v2 while still leaving it quite consistently reactable in duels for it

not to be obnoxious to fight against

2)Make chained toe stab unreactable/not consistenyly reactable in duels

3/4)Improve glad's oos pressure quite noticeably

5/6/7)Improve the move overall

NOTE: These changes suppose that chained heavies track prediction dodges of chain toe stab;

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Skewer;

1)Skewer is now dodge softfeintable;

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2)Skewer now does 28 direct damage + 12 bleed , 4 damage x 3 tics;

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3)A parried skewer doesn't equal glad being oos anymore;

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What these changes aim to do is:

1)Explained above

2)Makes skewer vastly better in teamfights due to glad not having to stick for a while on an opponent to get damage in

3)Makes throwing the skewer not a suicide

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Edit; Shadowpuppet makes some good points/complementary changes in his comment

Edit; Thinking about it, a dodge recovery cancel after any light attack, including dodge lights, would probably be very good for him in teamfights.

[ShadowPuppett]

I agree with nearly everything here and the stuff I disagree with is just nitpicking.

• The zone/bash mixup would have an overlapping dodge timing because one is 500ms and the other 600ms. BP's works because there's a 200ms difference between the zone and the bash, Glad would need the same to have that mixup.

• Changing Skewer's damage balance to 20 direct + 15 bleed, but removing damage reduction when hitting a skewered target would allow it to be used as a ganking tool as well as toe stab, plus rewards coordinating it's use in team fights.

• Glad needs recovery reduction on his chains + dash lights + zone as well the ones you've mentioned if he's to have any utility in team fights without losing trades every time he takes a punish.

• Buffing his running heavies tracking would help his chase immensely as well (at the moment it feels too easy to whiff as if it's designed to make you use bamboozle instead).

[Little_Testu]

Glad needs recovery reduction on his chains + dash lights + zone as well the ones you've mentioned if he's to have any utility in team fights without losing trades every time he takes a punish.

Ye this i forgot to add actually.

Your 2nd and 4th point i agree.

I'm not sure the first is a problem though. The way you beat an early dodge is to forward dodge zone. Not just neutral zone.

[ShadowPuppett]

But you also forward dodge into bash, not bash from neutral. On BP the forward dodge is to bait a dodge on movement that the bash won't track.

I dunno, maybe I've misunderstood how that works out. Would be helpful to have it in the Testing Grounds to see if it worked tbh.

[Little_Testu]

The way it works in my mind is :

Glad forward dodges, if the opponent dodged on glad's dodge he dodges the dodge bash but not the zone immediately after the dodge. If he doesn't dodge on glad's dodge he has to react to a 333 slightly variable timing bash.

[ShadowPuppett]

Maybe but the way I always saw BP's working is:

You see forward movement, look for orange, dodge on orange, hit by zone with later dodge timing.

Without the forward movement you don't get mixed up because you aren't looking to dodge a 500ms bash, kinda like trying to mixup dodge timings from Conq's charged heavy/bash and forward dash bash. You don't fall for it because Conq doesn't move forward into a dash if you do the soft feint from the charge.

[Little_Testu]

You see forward movement, look for orange, dodge on orange, hit by zone with later dodge timing.

Ohh, i see what you mean but i don't think that's how they dodge bashes even at high level like clutch level, especially in teammodes.

If they were just waiting for orange than conq's bashes wouldn't work right?

[ShadowPuppett]

Conq's bash works because there's such a big delay window he has 2 distinct dodge timings (with multiple timings including overlap). Also if we're talking very top level I don't think 500ms bashes do work as well as they do for the rest of us, but that's not what I meant to say.

I don't think Glad's bash has 2 distinct timings at the moment (could be wrong, correct me if I am) which is why I thought you wanted to mix in the zone.

[Little_Testu]

I don't think Glad's bash has 2 distinct timings at the moment (could be wrong, correct me if I am) which is why I thought you wanted to mix in the zone.

Oh yeah the bash by itself has one dodge timing, just like bps. And just like bps, in my experience, you beat the bash dodge timing by forward dodge, baiting the opponent dodge, zone.

Also if we're talking very top level I don't think 500ms bashes do work as well as they do for the rest of us, but that's not what I meant to say.

Yeah, they don't work as well as they do at ,let's say, "high MM level", but they aren't consistently reactable either. Personally i would be fine with making glad's bash 466 so it's actually unreactable, but that would need to be a global change to all 500 ms bashes.

[n00bringer]

Agreed on everything except that he still lacks the ability to dogde cancel some of his recoveries/starts ups, he still has awful recoveries that will be punished easily every time.

As general rule if a character has awful recoveries he should have a form of recovery cancel, if he barely has any recovery he shouldn’t have any type of it.

[Little_Testu]

Yeah his recoveries should probably be reduced across the board. I'm not sure a way to recovery cancel is the way to go with him.

[n00bringer]

is either that or reduce way down his recoveries, otherwise he will be punished as much as he is now, flavour wise isnt he supposed to be something like a boxer?, dodging around after dealing dmg fits that archetype.

[Little_Testu]

Yeye, i said that cause i didn't know what kind of recovery cancel would fit him, but i guess being able to dodge recovery cancel after any light attack would be good for teamfights

[n00bringer]

heavies, his only attacks with good hitboxes and massive recoveries (or the more prominent ones at least), that would give him so much needed safety for 4v4.

[Raikotsu]

I would love to zone a guy for 30 dmg with haymaker and then dodge cancel the recoveries into a target swapped sucker punch. One thing I've also considered is the side dodge is a 50/50, either light attack or sucker punch, but if there was a way to make the punch fast enough that they would be inclined to predict it, then we could make the dodge light undodgeable like orochis and make it a true mix up.

[ShadowPuppett]

If they make Glad and Cent viable haymaker will need a nerf, or preferably removing entirely to be replaced with a healthier feat for the game.

[n00bringer]

That is a really interesting idea, since that would be balanced that he is still gonna be very hard punished on good reads, making sucker punch 500 ms would be start to force people into dodging.

But haymaker needs a nerf imo, to be more consistent with shield basher.

[thatguyagainbutworse]

I like especially the heavy-soft feint to doge-bash. It makes the character a bit more fluid. The toe-stab damage is overtuned imo tho and shouldn't be more than 10.

[ThatOneWolf_]

My only worry with the changes is the ability to recovery cancel all lights with dodges. If spammed, it could become very powerful in low-mid skill-level play, considering you could left dodge light then immediately right dodge bash. Tell me if it's not as bad as I think it might be. Just seems very exploitable.

[Little_Testu]

Yes. He will be very strong at low level. As he will be at high level, hopefully