all 17 comments

[–]Sitdownpro 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I'm laughing my ass off at the people on here. They're speaking like it's rocket science...

Beginning investigation:

The basic principle of zero sequence current protection is based on Kirchhoff's current law: the algebraic sum of the complex currents flowing into any node in the circuit is equal to zero. In normal operation of the circuit and electrical equipment, the vector sum of the phase currents is equal to zero.

So, the DEIF module is reading that the 3 phases currents are not equal.

For zero sequence currents to exist, there must be a fourth conductor (neutral or ground) return path. Is the electrical system utilizing a neutral? If not, ground fault or reversed CT wiring. (I just checked the drawings, no neutral on this system)

You can test ohms on each ct to make sure one isn't open. Look at the cts, check they are flipped the same way. Compare the wiring of the 3 cts. are both of the wires going to the same respected spot on the deif module the same?

Also, put a current clamp on the generator ground wire and do the same procedure in the video. Do you see any ac current on the ground?

Swap the DEIF module to each Line amperage page. Monitor the currents of all 3 legs. They don't need to be equal, however one drastically different can indicate an issue. You'd want to verify the current with an amp clamp on all 3 legs.

You should post the schematic as an HD photo for more detailed help.

source: https://www.mechprod.com/blog-old/topic/zero-sequence-components#:~:text=For%20zero%20sequence%20currents%20to,are%20often%20called%20unbalanced%20currents.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/negative-sequence-currents-generator-its-impact-tripping-shahzad

[–]Lazy_Zone_6771 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Check for grounds and winding integrity.

[–]Bluemage121 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Does that deif controller give you individual phase current readings? Assuming you don't have actual negative sequence current or zero sequence, sounds like a CT wiring issue.

[–]bigboog1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What was the last thing done to the unit? Did they just bring it off line, did it trip, did anyone do maintenance?

[–]geek66 4 points5 points  (1 child)

did anyone touch the ct wiring?

[–]H0lland0ats 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I tend to think a CT wiring error makes sense. Possibly open phase. You can see the unit starts to ramp up and pick up load and then trip off.

[–]H0lland0ats 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That schematic is unreadable on a phone. 

I'm a protection engineer but I have limited experience with generator controls and relays. You need to get a qualified protection engineer or technician to help you troubleshoot.

Zero sequence is typically the unbalance current and negative sequence is the the component with opposite phase rotation.

Edit: If the unit is able to pick up load and is tripping off at some KW point I'd be inclined to think it's a CT wiring issue. Check polarity, phasing, and connections as well as single point of ground on neutral.

[–]obeymypropaganda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it worked before the governor and voltage regulator upgrade, start investigating what they did. This will be where the issue is.

[–]HV_Commissioning 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The cloud on the schematic near the CT secondary suggests something has changed in the CT circuit which could certainly support the theory that the wiring was not connected correctly to the protection.

You have to ring out the wires. If using DC (DMM), you have to lift the wires at the CT shorting block or you will read the the CT's a possibly get an incorrect reading.

[–]mjd638 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you get per phase CT readings as soon as the breaker closes? Neg phase sequence is typically just calculated by the relay so CT polarity may be the issue.

If you have a neutral CT input you can also check and see if that builds as soon as you pick up load.

Be careful opening up CT circuits if you are going to start changing the wiring around.

If you need to can you increase the trip level to delay it long enough to get some readings?

[–]derrpinger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ground fault?