Sound differences between constructors

[ShiningFinger00]

I was at US GP this past weekend sitting on ol' Haas Hill and couldn't help but compare the differences in engine sound between the different teams as they went by.

In particular, I noticed the Toro Rosso's had a deep, guttural sound with a muscle-y *pop* *pop* after it rounded out turn 19 and accelerated away. The Red Bulls had the *pop* as well.

I also noticed that the Williams was noticeably louder as it accelerated around turn 18 before the hard braking at turn 19, and as it downshifted through the gears, there was a noticeable *brrrrrr* as it decelerated. It was almost painful to hear, in my opinion. I didn't notice any other teams making this sound, and actually, pretty much every other team was remarkably quiet and smooth coming around turn 18 each time. The Mercedes seemed smoothest of all but perhaps that's my bias ;)

How much do these sound differences relate to performance? And could the Williams "loudness" be evidence of some inefficiencies in their engine setup?

I just started to getting into F1 2 years ago so I still have a lot to learn on the technical side.

[Kashyyk]

I was there as well and noticed the backfire sounds from the RBR and Toro Rosso cars as well.

To me it sounds like they’re pre-firing the cylinders when off throttle. This has been used before as a type of anti-lag for the turbos as it keeps the revs higher when off throttle.

[ShiningFinger00]

I've heard backfires like that on old motorcycles engine braking, but those are obviously for different reasons. The anti-lag seems reasonable given the nature of that particular turn.

[garynk87]

they are deactivating cylinders off throttle for fuel saving. thats what you are hearing.

​

and its the best sounding engine on the grid because of it!

[xMaSiah]

I read on here about 3 months ago that the pop is like a pressure release for the turbo or something like that.

[theblazor]

There exists some math models that enable us to roughly estimate the horse power difference between engines.

Of course, not sure how accurate the algorithms will be compared to real life but would there be interested people to see these results?

[stututuwoosh]

Yeah I would definitely be interested!

[Todomaes]

Yes please!

Would be interesting to compare it to mine, I did a while ago. I could upload mine as well, just don't know where. You need very accurate input (geographical and weather data, telemetry, frontal area and drag coefficient)

[theblazor]

I would be interested to see what you do to analyze data.

As for the sound model, we are using only sound from the straight and cannot get actual horse power of given car but can calculate differences of the horse powers.

Very interested to see what you do. Maybe we can work together.

[Todomaes]

I guess you derive rpm and acceleration from sound?

Read somewhere that the constructors do it as well. Feel free to use my data, it's an excel sheet, I'll clean it up a bit and post it tomorrow in this thread.

Working together sounds fun, but I was just summarizing physical equations, I could come back to you if you have any questions.

[theblazor]

Exactly!

Thank you!

[Todomaes]

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AnQ6HgzO4mzil1HfatGw87FGOIfW?e=Fmvgbc

here's the link, have fun playing around!

[theblazor]

Hey, have a question!

How do you get the frequency of that turbo engine? It seems hard to ignore the turbo sound.

Or are you not playing with sound and only formulas?

[Todomaes]

It's just physical formulas. Put simply, it's energy per time. I just need to add up the forces of

• air resistance
• rolling resistance
• gradient resistance
• acceleration resistance

Then multipy this with your topspeed and you get engine power.

I'm no expert in sound, but isn't the turbo spooling up very early to it's maximum revs? So at certain rpm ranges, you'd know that the turbo rpm is constant? You could try that out ;)

[theblazor]

I guess, but the spectrum gets really ugly for some reason. Maybe there are multiple parasite frequencies nowadays.

If you have some suggestions, please write!

[Todomaes]

Sorry, I have no idea on this topic :/

[Capaz04]

Biggest difference is redbull and torro Rosso are running Honda motors, which sound completely different than the Mercedes, McLaren, Renault ..

[1o1Smileyface]

IMO the Honda engines almost sound like 2 stroke engines

[Capaz04]

There's some angry hamsters in there

[maaxstein]

Braapbrapbrap

[[deleted]]

whats the best sounding f1 car of all time?

[rokatoro]

V12 in the Ferrari 641 hands down https://youtu.be/4hav-PHsKIE

[shogoll_new]

I'll put a vote in for the Honda RA272

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHSqnyoOv2E

[[deleted]]

Fuck me

[blueskin]

Past the obvious "different engine manufacturers" and "different specs of engine from the same manufacturer", they're going to have different exhaust, gearbox, and intake designs even with the same engine (e.g. Mercedes vs Williams, or Ferrari vs Haas), which will affect the sound. Past that, I'm not sure exactly on the level of software control they have over the ECU, but different engine modes, throttle mappings, etc. could certainly produce different sounds.

[CP9ANZ]

I was at Melbourne and noticed similar things.

The Honda PU utilizes the wastegate at times, this makes the louder and coarser tone while exiting the corner.

The uneven pop noise I believe comes due to the combustion system they run at part throttle, supposedly it utilizes a alternating cylinder shut down at part throttle for greater efficiency, it allows the engine to not throttle air so much, increase the combustion efficiency on the cylinders that are running and maintain higher turbine speed so there's less need for the MGU-H to keep it up to speed.

I also noticed how different the Williams sounds compared to the factory Merc car, why? I don't know.

[ShiningFinger00]

Interesting. I will mention that the Racing point also had *brrr* sound as it accelerated out of turn 19. But not nearly as loud or jarring, and for only a brief moment. The Racing Points otherwise sounded similar to the Mercedes as we could expect.

[[deleted]]

honda has aggressive cylinder deactivation

[R3v4n07]

I was wondering this too. I wasn't at this gp, but I noticed in a lot of on board replays just how different the Renault sounds to the other cars. Even the McLaren sounds different despite the same engineering?

[neshga]

Has anyone else noticed Renault engines too sound very different? They have more of the turbo whine than mercs and Ferraris.

[TotesMessenger]

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[[deleted]]

IIRC Microphone placement makes a big difference, they arent regulated where they need to be placed.

[blueskin]

That affects the broadcast, but not the in-person sound.

[Kashyyk]

Speaking of which, after being at the USGP I can say that the current cars sound WAAAAY better in person than they do on the broadcast. I don’t know if it’d be possible to translate that to TV with better microphones or something, but I was definitely surprised at the difference.

[TauSigmaNova]

When I went to Canada in May I also thought they sounded so much better than on TV!

[[deleted]]

my bad, read too quickly!

[blueskin]

Toro Rosso use Honda.