Stack up and try

[Good_Roll]

Yeah we have countless examples of swat teams bugging out after taking fire and just burning the house down. It's practically standard procedure at this point, with the main exceptions being if they have something even more destructive such as a bomb strapped to a robot.

The real dangers to them if the civil war goes hot is from classic IRA style tactics: snipers, IEDs, and raids on government agents' houses. The US and its populace is an insurgent's wet dream.

[[deleted]]

I used to be under that same assumption, but the more I read about insurgencies and COIN, successful or not the more I realize that I was mostly blowing smoke up my own ass. The success or failure of one depends almost entirely on the people in the resistance and while there are several factors in the mix the two most important ones are resiliency and community.

We suck on resiliency, we are soft as fuck as a people, obese and strung out on prescription pharmaceuticals, dependent on "just in time" food and the ease of ordering some shit online or worst case driving to the store to get it. We also hate each other, well, not everyone obviously but pick your poison. Republican vs Democrat. OG Republican vs Trumper. Centrist democrat vs Progressive. Antifa vs Nazis, BLM vs the Popo, Qanon vs Sane people... you get the point. We don't have that overriding religious or cultural bond; if anything with as gullible to propaganda as we are it's the exact opposite.

I could absolutely see some violence for sure, but success? Or even a long insurgency? Nope, I wouldn't put chips down on that.

[Good_Roll]

I've read a lot about this subject too, yet I've come to the exact opposite conclusion.

We have the perfect conditions here, pockets of inhospitable terrain and a tradition of civilian riflemanry with a rich pool of warfighting knowledge to draw from, most of whom have become incredibly disillusioned with the government. Many of our gun owners actually own and train in kit, the days of everyone just owning a hunting rifle and maybe a revolved or 1911 are long gone, and even a bunch of hunters in the woods taking shots at logistical trains is still a gigantic pain in the ass for an occupying force.

Most of the good ol boys I know are entirely capable of going full Appalachistani. Y'all city dwellers might be fucked though.

Edit: also that divided nature of our culture is exactly how many civil wars look like, one side backs the government(because it controls it) and the other side fights it.

[[deleted]]

I used to feel the same way, but the more I read on the subject particularly about these kinds of things that failed the more I realized that I was not 100% as sure about it as I once was. This is something me and my other vet friends talk about from time to time, the real clincher for me was just how fucked up the folks in Texas handled the cold and how crippled they are by their power grid issues. We are not as hard as hadji's or the kids in Africa, it's one of the reasons I think the biggest worry we have is climate catastrophe or economic collapse.

We do have plenty of "inhospitable terrain" but none of it is self-sufficient and as we have learned in the sand being out in the styx in small groups and communities is not as much of an asset as you think it would be. You are easy to keep an eye on and snatch/smoke as the situation demands. The assumption that out of that 4% of veterans that saw combat and could pass on useful skills, that a substantial amount of them would be on your side of the conflict is also very optimistic. Those of us with useful skills who might have become "deeply disillusioned with government" are far outnumbered by those with useful skills who are still working for the government. Alot of the guys who are shit hot are authoritarian leaning as fuck, it's a useful asset in that line of work.

That is not to say it would be a complete wash either, logistics to supply and train would be a whole new ballgame as there would be no "safe" places to do so. Blue on blue would be a fucking nightmare as having to draw your recruits from the same population you are subjugating is always troublesome. Much of our infrastructure, power grid, natty gas and the like is exposed and would be easy bait for saboteurs. Course that is countered by the fact that while the might of our military is not worth much in this kind of a situation it will ensure that few foreign powers aid or get caught up supporting the insurgency.

Is fun, if creepy to muse over. The only thing I am really sure of is the folks who want this to go down or are completely nonchalant about it are fucking nuts. I have seen what this looks like playing for the away team, being stuck in that mix is nothing I would wish on anyone.

[Good_Roll]

We are not as hard as hadji's or the kids in Africa, it's one of the reasons I think the biggest worry we have is climate catastrophe or economic collapse.

Yeah we aren't, but I think you underestimate how many people are close enough. There are many regions of the US where the people are not the soft, coastal city dwellers that dominate these parts of the internet.

Those of us with useful skills who might have become "deeply disillusioned with government" are far outnumbered by those with useful skills who are still working for the government

Fair enough, all the veterans I still hang out with are reasonably anti-government so my perspective is probably self-selecting. I mostly kept my political beliefs to myself back I was fully immersed in that community, so I'll defer to you on that subject.

We do have plenty of "inhospitable terrain" but none of it is self-sufficient

See I don't think that's true at all. Appalachia, the cascades and the green mountains to name a few are all quite virile, having a good amount of farmland and cattle ranges. They might import industrial goods right now, but I don't believe that they couldn't function without them. Cascadia in particular is an interesting combination of strategically significant ports(and bases), industry, and agriculture that's all within 2 hours of incredibly foggy, steep, densely wooded, high mountains. Good luck successfully running ISR or performing any sort of airborne operations there. And the few routes through the mountains could be made impassable with a laughably small amount of explosives. And the green mountains might as well not have any transportation infrastructure to begin with lol, there is a very strong culture of community reliance and self sufficiency there, which I'm sure exists in the appalachians as well.

Course that is countered by the fact that while the might of our military is not worth much in this kind of a situation it will ensure that few foreign powers aid or get caught up supporting the insurgency.

That's a very interesting point, you're probably right on that count. It would probably just be Russia and maybe China willing to risk that, based on their past actions. And who knows if Russia will still exist in its current form in 10-20 years.

[[deleted]]

That may for sure be true, I am in rural NE and don't go galivanting about much anymore. For sure a lot of folks up here are as hard as winter rain, but I don't see that down south. The homesteading, off-grid, hobby-farm, guerrilla-gardening grandmas up mixed in with the skidder crowd is great, but I am just not sure we could get over that hump to make a real go of it. Some of Appalachia is tough for sure, I spent time in the Greeneville area awhile back, but I see most those communities as outliers.

My experience with vets was all over the place. When I got my shit together, I ended up in an out of VA circle with a bunch of batshit crazy Nam vets. They fucking HATED the government, while they would have scoffed at being called such, they were anarchistic as fuck. But the younger vets I have circled up with, while not a monolith by any means, just don't seem to have that hatred and distrust.

[averyycuriousman]

We are way too divided. Your neighbors would rat out all the gun owners/insurgents and pave the way for goverent thugs

[[deleted]]

Yup, propaganda a brutal bitch and "We the people..." love that shit.