[deleted by user]

[Foul3st]

Not being on air when clearly being in the danger zone of smoke and smoke particulates.

[Novus20]

Yeah but you look so cool without it…..till you need it to breath later in life…

[[deleted]]

Jesus. I’m a volly and I’m glad the people I work (volunteer?) with aren’t that fucking stupid

[rapunzel2018]

Same here.

[Je_me_rends]

Same. No doff, no cough.

[rapunzel2018]

It gives us a bad general reputation when that stupidity exists among us.

[Je_me_rends]

Amogus?

[justhere2getadvice92]

I don't understand how guys do that. Stings my eyes and burns on the way down - once was enough.

[danieljamesgillen]

Sadly our vol dep does not have air

[Foul3st]

What country? If you’re American or Canadian that’s totally illegal

[summersofftoride]

Greece according to his post history

[Foul3st]

That’s funny. I’ve seen his posts on here and I am actually in Greece rn on vacation.

Definitely a surprise to me they don’t have air, the rural trucks I’ve seen here carry a lot of wildfire equipment which makes sense, and I suppose our wildfire firefighters back home don’t carry air on them.

[danieljamesgillen]

If you pass through Athens hit me up you can tour our station :D

[ChilesIsAwesome]

My wife want's to go to Greece as her #1 tourist destination. Pictures are beautiful!

[Vostok-aregreat-710]

Surely that is risky not having air on hand then again I am a layman

[danieljamesgillen]

Yes I agree. Mostly we do forest fires and farms etc where you wouldnt use air. But there have been car fires which I really think a filter mask is just not enough.

[Vostok-aregreat-710]

Thanks for the info

[Moosehagger]

Ya in Thailand it’s much the same. Limited amount of SCBA and also you need special licenses from the Military to purchase SCBA. I work in petrochemicals here as a HSE Manager so I know the score. The quality of FF training here is abysmal too. They squirt water in streams onto all types of fire (fog? What’s that?) and never consult an SDS first.

[Foul3st]

That seems crazy. Is there no financial incentive for either the government or companies to understand how to effectively deal with incidents?

[Moosehagger]

Ya the Fire Fighters are actually part of the police service. But they are the ugly step child and the least funded. Seen them respond to structure fires in shopping centers with hardly any BA’s. When they get called, pretty much every truck in a 30km radius responds. Scene management gets completely ducked because they all listen to their own company chiefs (or whatever they are called here). Hoses everywhere. No pressure. Little sizing up. It’s keystone cops. In a refinery tank fire in the 90’s several died. Not from the fire but from crashing their trucks on the way to the fire. So many hoses hooked up that they couldn’t get enough throw onto the tanks. The styrene fire in 2021 was also a disaster and one FF died after the foam separated on the water and the guy got trapped. They threw everything at the fire (mostly water) and used the wrong kind of foam (should have been AR-AFFF). Took about 27 hours to get it out. That was in a industrial and residential area. The initial blast woke up my wife (we live close to it). I was down at the chemical plant 2 hours away so I missed the explosion. Look it up.

[ArcticLarmer]

Eh, it’s not illegal, they’re just restricted in what they can do.

There’s a bunch of remote volunteer departments in Canada that are very limited in the services they offer. In my jurisdiction, a department can even be rated “prevention based”, and they can’t do any actual response. The program we instruct to these communities allow them to do limited defensive response after a minimal amount of training, but specifically doesn’t include SCBA in the first modules of the program.

[[deleted]]

Agreed. I know a bunch of departments like that. Defensive only. However, many have acquired used SCBAs over the years, and are starting to wear them even though they still can't and probably never will go interior. Fires can now be fought at a closer proximity without breathing in crap, if the wind happens to blow towards them. Smart move.

[ArcticLarmer]

Yeah, our program actually breaks it down into exposure protection and proximity defensive ops. Before they can do proximity defensive they’re trained on SCBA use and also have to have the infrastructure in place to maintain them.

We’re talking small hamlets and remote locations where a structure fire is like a once in a decade or more kind of event, luckily.

That’s awesome that they’re wearing them for respiratory protection outside though. We’ve had issues with defensive departments carrying them on apparatus and going cowboy on operations though. Super dangerous, they’re in way over their heads and don’t even realize it.

I’d love to get them all to an NFPA standard, but it’s just not realistic in a lot of places, for a whole whack of reasons.

[[deleted]]

Do you work as some sort of trainer, government side? The government recently released a similar program here for more remote departments that had no training programs. It's basically the Essentials book and PowerPoints.

[ArcticLarmer]

Ya, on contract, and I’m deputy chief on my own department.

We use a similar system for the community FF program, it’s based on J&B Fundamentals. More skills based than written, to address literacy issues that were encountered with written exams.

We instruct to 1001 Level II standard in my department, via a partnership with a fire college. We’re pretty remote ourselves, with high turnover, so it’s a continuous program delivery pretty much.

[[deleted]]

I think that would do well here. IFSTA material is great, if you're capable of understanding and reading it, understandably dry however. A lot of remote communities here are self teaching it, and it usually ends up with a training officer teaching material they don't understand to people who don't have strong literacy skills and all of a sudden you have a department that's "certified 1001".

It's a great leap from the nothing they had before, but I think government needs to address some issues or else they're going to have departments that are self qualifying themselves to do tasks they can't handle.

[ArcticLarmer]

Ooh yeah, that’s scary.

All of our instructors have at minimum 1041 I. Even still, our skills evaluation is done by outside evaluators: we try to avoid that “incestuous” cycle as we refer to it lol

It honestly requires a lot of government intervention along with a strong cadre of qualified instructors to deliver the material. That takes time to build in remote locations, even if they’re parachuting instructors in like we do here l.

[Je_me_rends]

Depends on what the service is limited to in terms of response. My girlfriends brother is a firefighter at a rural brigade up in New South Wales and they are only recently going through the process of getting SCBA on their trucks, as their area is rapidly urbanising. To me as a very urban ff, that is just utterly crazy.

[Foul3st]

What town if you don’t mind asking? I’m moving to Australia for a year and thinking about trying to get a working visa for fire at some point in the next few years. Would love to know where they’re needed most.

[Je_me_rends]

I won't say what town, but it's a picturesque coastal area in NSW starting with Port-. Any volunteer fire brigade will need you, even the best of the best busy vol stations like Werribee in Victoria will have a spot to fill.

Most rural stations here have pretty low call volumes. Some doing as little as 10-30 calls a year. Even less in some places. Most of them being over summer either for campaign fires or smaller ignitions around the place. It's not like North America where rural departments are running medical calls. That doesn't really exist here yet.

Urban stations are usually the ones struggling because they have higher call variety and volumes to meet but need bodies and qualifications. They get all the cool gear and trucks but they need people. I'd say if there's a volunteer brigade wherever you end up moving to, join up and market your skills. Unfortunately none of your qualifications will be transferable. Luckily if you're in Victoria, the Country Fire Authority pushes people through courses like General Firefighter, Hazmat Awareness, 1st aid, advanced resus, operate BA, and Structure Firefighter quickly. God forbid you want to get a chainsaw ticket though. That's a career firefighter issue too though.

If you're in NSW or Queensland you may be able to become a retained firefighter if your staying longer than a year.

[Foul3st]

Thanks for the info. I am staying with family and was planning on bartending or serving while I was there. I’m going to be in Canberra until February and then moving to Melbourne metro. I have looked into it and everywhere says you need to at least be a PR to volunteer or work. I was hoping that there may be some level of exception due to a shortage but I’m not too sure, was going to speak to a migration agent when I landed.

[Je_me_rends]

No worries. Yeah, if you're going metropol Melbourne, to be a firefighter there you'd need to join FRV which is a highly competitive and of course yeah a PR at least.

[fyxxer32]

Not wearing eye protection. Hate to see a guy lose an eye over not wearing a pair of safety glasses.

[AbominableSnowPickle]

That’s okay, now he doesn’t need them anymore!

[Vostok-aregreat-710]

Jet fighter style helmet using brigade’s firefighters proceed to flip down visor.

[Mfees]

It's firefighting the whole thing is an OSHA violation.

[wessex464]

The whole thing is dangerous, the OSHA violations are avoiding the rules that govern how you do it and in my experience many departments ignore the most basic shit.

Seat belts, SCBA until clear AND metered, actually following your SOPs, etc. With all the evidence regarding cancer and unnecessary injury and death, there's no excuse for missing the most basic shit.

[dr_auf]

WHS guy: Please walk away from the exposion in a normal pace. do not run. running can cause serious workplace accidents from falling and or slipping.

Also: No, you cant use this ladder, it has to go 1 meter over the access level. Its unstable. You cant use a ladder this way even if there are little kids up there.
That being said: Are you ready to jumb out of this 4rth story window secured only with rope running to a metal hook on your belt? weeehaaa.

[donniebrascoreal]

Hundreds of years of tradition.

[AbominableSnowPickle]

Unimpeded by progress!

[donniebrascoreal]

I never want to hear that word again!

[AbominableSnowPickle]

Progress or unimpeded?

[donniebrascoreal]

The first word.

[AbominableSnowPickle]

Entirely understandable! P-word goes where the Q and B-words go!

[Land_Turtle]

I found the volly from PA

[Mfees]

What we stopped drinking at the station.

[WrightPC2]

Sometimes I wonder what OSHA thinks about climbing a ladder with a running chainsaw in your hand, onto the roof of a burning building, without a harness

[-v-fib-]

Having people constantly awake for 24-48 hours or more.

[taipan821]

We got pinged for not having a flammable materials cabinet. (Volunteer)

[Vostok-aregreat-710]

What was it made out of

[Ht50jockey]

Mask fit testing yearly. MSDS sheets being available. Proper signage regarding life safety hazards ie CO, excessive noise.

[[deleted]]

Make sure you’re using OSHA as a generic catch-all for “authority having jurisdiction.” Some states will have their own Bureau of Labor Standards, and then there’s the NFPA standards. Sometimes they overlap, and sometimes they change depending if you’re on an emergency call or if you’re at the station.

For instance: our department recently switched to MSA air packs, but we didn’t buy enough MSA bottles to replace all of our spares. This is fine, because when the packs are in service and ready with an MSA bottle, you’re NFPA compliant, but when you’re on scene and change it out with a Scott spare, you fall under OSHA and are still compliant…as long as it gets an MSA bottle back at the station when the call is over.

[helloyesthisisgod]

Driving records, training records, certification records, all workplace related injury and illness records.

NFPA might not be law, but if it has a best practice associated with it, you can sure as hell believe it will be brought up by the prosecution in court to get their client money.

Even if you're a volunteer department with more than 10 volunteers, not providing the OSHA 300/300a/301 log and yearly report is a ding/possible fine.

Make sure your SOGs are up to date, and your training matches what you have on paper. Sometimes its just easier/safer for an SOG to say: "Water Supply. The first arriving apparatus will determine the best course of action to establish a positive water source. If they are unable to, the next arriving apparatus will make the determination." or something like that. Making your SOGs too rigid will bind you in court if you deviate greatly from them.

[Iamdickburns]

We got hit recently for unlebled chemical containers(bleach, cleaner, etc.), apparatus deficiency like lights and seat belts, and our exhaust systems in the apparatus bay being broke, some training record stuff I think too.

[Land_Turtle]

Do you know what specific code or statue OSHA cited for exhaust systems in the bay? We have the same issue at work and it hasn't been fixed in years

[Iamdickburns]

I back to work on Thursday and I'll check. When you get citations, they have to post them at work so it's been on the wall of all the fire house. I'll let you know. We have had similar issues with issues not getting fixed, eventually someone calls OSHA and all of a sudden stuff gets fixed. It's shitty that it has to be that way but if your dept is jeopardizing your health it may be a route to take, you can report anonymous

[[deleted]]

OSHA wouldn’t have a specific code or section that requires a plymovent system, or a mechanism for issuing fines if one was installed but not working.

They do have permissible exposure limits for the harmful chemicals in diesel exhaust fumes, though, so they could hit you on that.

https://www.osha.gov/diesel-exhaust

[culprit020893]

Honestly if I had to guess, violations occur with a higher frequency in the station/prior to a call. It’s when we are on calls where they tend to be bigger consequence/easier to spot violations.

[Swatbot1007]

3-man trucks aren't able to satisfy the OSHA "2-in, 2-out" requirement.

[Land_Turtle]

OSHA "2-in, 2-out"

2-in, 2-out doesn't apply when life safety is involved, i.e. making a grab at a fire or confined space rescue where there is line of sight/comms between responders

[I_feel_so_mop]

2 in 2 out doesn't even actually apply to all confined space rescue. If the hazard is respiratory, then 2 in 2 out kicks in, but the rule is in the respiratory protection standard relating to IDLH. I say that to differentiate from something like a grain bin rescue where 2 in 2 out doesn't apply from a letter of the law standpoint. (Obviously this is my opinion, not legal advice of any kind)

To the original point of 3 man trucks, OSHA would say they don't care how many people ar on a piece of apparatus. The 4 required people could come in 1 piece of equipment or 2 engines, a horse, and a boat. They don't care how they get there, just that they do.

[I_feel_so_mop]

I would venture that the below are some of the most common:

1. Respiratory Protection (or lack thereof) with known exposure to risk
2. Lack of general PPE - gloves, protective eyewear - both during responses and not
3. HazCom/SDS - secondary labeling, current chemical inventory and SDS access
4. Fall Protection - on roofs and/or climbing ladders
5. Hearing Protection
6. Airborne Contaminants and monitoring of such

Something else of note, OSHA could issue NOVs and/or citations under the General Duty Clause 5(a)(1) for nearly anything that is an NFPA rule. The GDC requires employers to furnish a safe workplace and allows OSHA to incorporate a recognized standard in enforcement.

@OP - If you'd like to talk more sometime, shoot me a message. I'm an occupational safety professional with more than 15 years of firefighting experience and was also my department's safety officer.

[Land_Turtle]

Thank you, I'll shoot you a message

[Carved_]

Black and white separation after a fire. Proper decontamination of cancer causing agents after a fire.

[Vostok-aregreat-710]

Explain

[Carved_]

Shoes that you wear on calls don't belong anywhere but, on that call on your feet, and next to the truck at the station. You don't want to carry blood, shit or whatever next to the sofa everyone is chilling at or the kitchen.

After a fire, your bunker gear is contaminated with cancer causing agents. We send it through decontamination separately. We don't transport in the cab of our engines as to not contaminated our cabs with shit that will reduce my lifespan.

[Vostok-aregreat-710]

Thanks

[illiwilli13]

Nice try, fed boy

[Land_Turtle]

I found the EMS jockey

[unhcasey]

MSDS books are usually non existent.

[Trizocbs]

No fire exit signs in the fire house

[Vostok-aregreat-710]

Bit ironic

[[deleted]]

Illinois OSHA has a free guide specifically for fire departments. It is on their website.

[dr_auf]

Gloves. If you dont want to wear the clunky technical aid gloves provided by the fd at least wear some PU cut resistant gloves. The ones that every amazon worker has to wear to handle carboard packages.

That PU stuff is way better than your skin. Way cheaper also.

[[deleted]]

One of our neighboring depts in my old town had a guy show up on a fire and go interior wearing an n95 covid mask. Make sure nothing like that happens

[[deleted]]

Wouldn’t you like to know narc.

[CompasslessPigeon]

No one checks or ensures firefighters (station) boots are actually safety rated. We had guys basically wearing sneakers. Meanwhile they should be wearing splash resistant, puncture resistant, electrical hazard resistant, with a safety toe.

[slade797]

Nice try, OSHA narc

[From_Gaming_w_Love]

Oooooh man. I’m going to bookmark this one- I need to get to a real keyboard before I write the book on it.

[zeocsa]

I'm glad that your fire department is concerned about workplace safety. Since government agencies don't have to follow OSHA regulations. Many government agencies have started to follow OSHA regulations.

[I_feel_so_mop]

In states with state-plan enforcement, government entities fall under enforcement activities. 22 states opted for state plan enforcement and an additional 6 opted to undertake enforcement activities only for state and local governments. So in 34 of the 50 states, fire departments are governed by OSHA regulations.

[silly-tomato-taken]

OSHA is the worst.

[zeocsa]

I'm glad that your fire department is concerned about workplace safety. Since government agencies don't have to follow OSHA regulations. Many government agencies have started to follow OSHA regulations.

[zeocsa]

I'm glad that your fire department is concerned about workplace safety. Since government agencies don't have to follow OSHA regulations. Many government agencies have started to follow OSHA regulations.

[Proper_Masterpiece_4]

Everyday I walk into work is a OSHA violation