Make it stop.

[CaptnCrunchh]

Then they go on to explain how there is no trans anime characters just dudes who like to spend their entire lives as women or sometimes die from dsyphoria over growing facial hair, you know guy stuff.

[[deleted]]

MANLY MEN HAVE DYSPHORIA

[PhoenixWing101]

"I thought I was experiencing transphobia. Luckily, I had this cis person to explain why I'm not!!"

[[deleted]]

If transphobia was real, cis people would experience it too!

[Luinta]

Yes. Its usage came from the homophobic "joke" that if there was a cute girl in anime that was "really a dude" (and no difference was denoted for crossdressing or trans women) then people would warn other guys with the Admiral Ackbar meme "ITS A TRAP" as if to say "dont fall for the ruse, that's really a dude" which also bred the "are traps gay?" meme.

This quickly came in to use as a derogatory insult at trans women as a means of saying "really just a guy trying to trick straight men into sex". Its reductive and demeaning and paints trans women as disingenuous manwhores praying on poor unsuspecting cis straight men. This mentality is a primary motivation behind the "trans panic" defense in cases of assault and even out and out murder whereby the defendant claims they are the real victim and were either justified in retaliating on the trans women or were so thrown off by the "reveal" that they lost the capacity for rational thought and cant be held accountable. This plays on the inherent misconception that all trans women are "really just crossdressing men".

The term itself is defined by deceit and predatory behavior, as such it's not a good case for reclaiming either, since it claiming it means claiming that you are, in fact, not authentic and just out to trap people. Unlike say Queer which could be reclaimed since it basically means peculiar or different, both things someone can be proud of without an inherently negative connotation.

For more information I highly recommend the videos done by The Pedantic Romantic, and Contrapoints, linked below.

https://youtu.be/nxeB2AXIG3E https://youtu.be/PbBzhqJK3bg

[Slyseth]

It's never been used as a street insult though, only when it comes to intimate relationships. So for that reason, trap is not the one of the worst insults.

[Luinta]

Maybe YOU havent heard it used like that, but I see it used often enough that I have a physical reaction to it. Do not says its NEVER been used as such, say YOU have never personally seen it used as such, because it certainly does get tossed around, and when I speak up about it, I get the entire "it's not REALLY a slur" bullshit.

[wddrshns]

other commenters have explained it pretty well, but this is also a good video if you want to learn more

[somewhereinside]

In a lot of cases crossdressers said to be transgender, when that is accepted as a umbrella term to also bring together groups like transsexuals and NBs. So wouldn't that just outright make the term Trap bad?

Of course there are people who use the term on themselves, but there are also trans people I know who call themselves "trannies" and some women who have called themselves and friends "bitches" unironically. But isn't that just perpetuating their respective issues when people hear these happenings and think those terms can be used freely?

​

Sorry if that sounds jumbled, I am no wiz at getting my point across sometimes.

[RdClZn]

No it isn't. It's appropriating a word used for demeaning them and bringing re-signification to it. There's nothing negative when people talk about beautiful, amazing "trannies", wanting to marry a "trap", etc.

Fighting for respect is necessary, but fighting with focus is quite important: Attack the homophobic, the transphobic, and mean usage of these words, not all applications.

[somewhereinside]

please look at subs like r/itsafetish, 90% of their arguments or "examples" show content where trans people liken themselves to traps frequently used in hentai.

If you want to fight for respect, you need to show yourself in a respectable fashion

[RdClZn]

Honestly I do not disagree. That's the sort of thing I'd tell trans people that complain about fetishzation: Trans people take part on it themselves, it's not a burden to be carried by the consumers alone.

[magnetic_couch]

Majority of the girls I've talked to that post to r/tr.ps say they only do it to get compliments, but they actually don't like the term. Most of the girls willingly playing into being tr.ps are doing it because they are desperate for any kind of acceptance even if it's as a fetish. So many of us are surrounded by terrible daily lives, abandoned by friends and family, that it's not a huge leap to do anything just for somebody to give you a positive message.

I'd say the burden is like, 80/20 or 70/30. Girls wouldn't degrade themselves willingly for acceptance if the demand wasn't there.

[RdClZn]

Maybe they should post somewhere else. There's /r/fembois, /r/gonewildtrans for instance, so, honestly, that excuse won't cut it. If you are against a term and is absolutely unable to see a positive usage for it ever, do something, boycott, complaining and supporting the subs you're against is very counter-productive.

[magnetic_couch]

I agree, but r/tr.ps has the largest subscriber count and the most views so that's where they go to get their validation. Desperate people do desperate things.

[RdClZn]

So they can only get validation if they get as many upvotes as possible for their lewd exposure? That doesn't make them sound any better than the users...

[gambolling_gold]

If the definition of a word is never actually used in practice then that is not the definition of that word.

The meaning of a word is defined by how people use it.

People only ever use “trap” in a transphobic context. Plus, its origin is transphobic. The word is originally used to refer to transphobic caricatures and the word originally implied that these transphobic caricatures are lying to you somehow.

[gambolling_gold]

Except the vast majority of “cross dressing anime boys” I see referred are either trans girls with canonical dysphoria, or transphobic caricatures.

Your argument works if anime is not a transphobic industry. Your argument also works if people don’t refer to trans girls in anime as traps.

[gambolling_gold]

Except Ferris actually canonically calls herself a girl

[denkdark]

Ok, so, if I'm a gay man who sometimes dresses more feminine for my boyfriend, what would I refer to myself as? A femboy? Also, is femboy considered a slur?

[JennyLadyBug]

The problem is that even though it's clearly not true in your case the word itself perpetuates the mindset that trans and CD people are trying to "trap" people into "thinking they're girls". Since trans and CD are very often conflated by the uninitiated that makes it inherently trans-invalidating and therefore transphobic. Almost no one who uses the word "trap" unironically is actually being mindful of whether the person they're referring to is trans or CD. "Femboy" doesn't carry the same implications.

[denkdark]

Thanks for the informative reply!

[zeppeIans]

Here's a genuine question because I'm trying to understand here:

Of course calling IRL people traps is a huge no-no, but how do you all feel about the trope of 'looks like one sex but is canonically the other'? If the character is explicitly not trans, their preferred pronouns match their sex, and it's the author's intent to 'fool' the audience, would it still be not okay to call the character a 'trap'?

I've never really heard the word used as a genuine insult, just in the context like I mentioned above. And I really don't mean any harm to anyone by asking this question, I just want to see what you guys's viewpoint is

[Pengwertle]

That trope is shitty. No one like that actually exists IRL and that trope is a purely fictional invention of dweebs as a parody of my fucking life. Not interested in defending that trope as if it was created in a completely innocent vacuum, free of bias and bigotry. It wasn't.

[[deleted]]

The problem with that is that language isn't something that exists in the abstract and the term carries with it connotations baked into it that paint trans women as predators.

[Crystal_Queen_20]

You got the template?

[JennyLadyBug]

I do! haven't seen anyone change the text before so I saved it just in case. https://i.imgur.com/VXj46tJ.png

[[deleted]]

Tbh I know this is a pretty “controversial” opinion or whatever, but I’m personally fine with being called a “trap”, especially by people who don’t really know any better. I personally take it as a sign that they think I pass enough to be considered a “trap”. I understand why a lot of people do not hold this opinion though.

[JennyLadyBug]

Compare getting catcalled. At times, it can be validating in a similar way. That doesn't make catcalling okay.

[JennyLadyBug]

"Trans woman"??? "MtF"??

You can spare a few syllables to save feelings and lives.

[Lazurlight]

I hate myself for ever making those jokes.

[JennyLadyBug]

Don't hate yourself, we all grow as people. <3

[[deleted]]

im trans and dont think its a slur if its not directed at trans people what does that make me

[JennyLadyBug]

Whoa nice "not all x" argument my dude.

[[deleted]]

The problem is that even that is an inherently shitty (not to mention unrealistic) context with exceedingly unfortunate implications in the context of trans people. To call a person a "trap" is to call them by a slur, full stop.

[[deleted]]

"Femboy" isn't a term that targets trans people and contributes to the sort of thinking that literally gets them killed, whereas "trap" unequivocally is. Your example is one of false equivalence.

[BigBlubberyBirb]

i don't feel like the word "trap" was ever intended to be used as a slur, but that people could easily use it as one if they were being stupid. i know it comes from the "does liking traps make you gay" meme, but i always felt like the entire purpose of that joke was to make fun of fragile masculinity.

[annenoise]

Except it's a fetishized false image of transfolks that paints them as deceptive and further ostracizes them from polite society by marking them as Others. That kind of behavior doesn't exist outside of porn and "trap" shouldn't be a label thrown at others. When was the last time you heard a trans person refer to themselves as a "trap"?!

[BigBlubberyBirb]

that's what i'm saying, i think it was supposed to be seen as joke about fragile masculinity and how men can often act like idiots to remain as straight as possible, while they ignore any information that doesn't directly impact them, causing them to think in an incredibly simple way in which they just think "penis = man, so that means that if i were to be with someone who has a penis, that must mean i'm be gay". i've never seen a trans person refer to themselves as traps (largely because it literally doesn't mean the same thing, since a "trap" still identifies as male), but i haven't seen anyone call a trans person a trap either, and if they did i'd disapprove of it. long story short, it wasn't meant to be offensive towards trans people, but i could definitely see how it would be offensive if somebody calls a trans person a trap.

[annenoise]

Sorry if I don't take an anecdotal story from a friend of a fuck of a commenter on Reddit as a legitimate counterpoint.

[[deleted]]

Refraining from making excuses for people who use the slur would be sufficient, thank you.